Merkel says German multicultural society has failed

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by The Revenant

 

Nationalism is what kept Europe Strong for the Last 2000 Years . Now , it has become a Homogenized Lump of Clay . Good Luck with that Mates..........

Strong? In which terms? I wonder the casualty numbers of the last 2000 years that Nationalism wrought that facilitated Europe's strength.

reply to post by Misoir


" There's something scary about Germany, it is just so powerful yet we cannot explain why. Each time they fought a world war they lost, but they alone were powerful enough to almost take down the whole world. How can such a small amount of people with relatively little colonialism and have little ethnic diversity able to be so powerful? It just boggles my mind."

Speaking of Germany in that regard is understandable . As a People , they have an incrediable amount of Intellectuality in their Society . It is also a sign that they could become Suspectable to a Superiority Complex , as they have shown to be in the past .

Originally posted by FBI 33
reply to post by The Revenant

 

I agree with her...it has caused nothing but problems and issues...in Europe and here in the States. Good for Frau Merkel for actually having enough guts to admit what everyone, including myself, are thinking. I know I will get a lot of flak for this, but it's true. The impossible concept of "multiculture" is something that is the root at many violent occurences. Think if they only had Germans in Germany or the English in England..very minimal amounts of terrorism/terror threats would occur. I feel a similar sentiment about the United States...although we are all from "immigrants" (although I can trace my ancestors back to when the Dutch first settled New Amsterdam) foreigners that enter the country in present times can and will present a danger. Just my opinion...everyone is entitled to their own of course

Tell that to the inhabitants of Northern Ireland. Darfur. Korea. Viet Nam.

Also, recollect the American Civil War.

reply to post by centurion1211


Makes me imagine that surely Germany (or any other country) would welcome abandoning German customs, cultural identity and their name and excitedly forge a new nation-building alliance with its immigrants to reinvent itself. Everybody wins.

reply to post by Hadrian


" Strong? In which terms? I wonder the casualty numbers of the last 2000 years that Nationalism wrought that facilitated Europe's strength. "


You only have to look at them Now to Answer your own Question . Besides the Constant Wars , they Achieved Greatness and Contributed to the World as the Driving Force of Intellectualism that has formed our Modern World today . More Good came from Europe than Bad Imo .

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by spikey

 

Originally posted by spikey
There is a fundamental obstacle to a successful multicultural society in any Western country.

And it is simply inequality.

A very valid point. But you can not deny there is also a willful component for many with respect to a refusal to participate in such a society.

I know of many successful immigrants as well who loath this country.

edit on 17-10-2010 by loam
because: (no reason given)

I think if you put your statement together with Spikey's, you have a very accurate description of both major components ofvthe problem. It is not an insolvable problem. As I have said previously I have seen things settle down very well in my own region. The immigrants have gotten just enough concessions and verbal assurances they are welcome and wanted. But the worst elements among them have also gotten enough of a boot in the butt that everyone understands certain things won't be tolerated. No reverse discrimination, for example. Gangs will not be tolerated. Urinating in public and harrasing women will not be tolerated. Cramming multiple families and vehicles into one residential property will not be tolerated.

We manage the problems that come up through passing laws and ordinances locally. We have special county and volunteer liaison groups who work with immigrants to let them know what is expected and legally required of them. They in turn show greater willingness to comply as a more welcoming and helping hand is extended to them.

We do have our problems but we do have our solutions for people patient and compassionate enough to find them. No fascist dictators needed or wanted.

( I think really we wouldn't want to part with our immigrants because they bring the most delicious cuisine to our region. You can take an unbelievable foodvtour of the world in the Wasington DC metro area).

reply to post by wayno


Freedom of movement of labour and people is not something I generally have an issue with. But when the migrant brings baggage such as a religious ideology that is very alien to the culture in which they intend to live then I have to say it is no surprise to me that you find many disillusioned Brits residing amongst you in Canada. It's quite often said that Canada is like England was many years ago so those people are presumably searching for a place that feels like home. I do not agree with your assertion that these expats have a inbuilt dislike of people from the M.E.

reply to post by Zanti Misfit


No, that's fine. It's just if current residents determine that they should eliminate or forcibly emigrate newer residents for "strength" then let's call a spade a spade. If nationalistic success depends on massive casualties (with targets determined by ethnicity or social class), then so be it. Just want everybody to be aware that somebody made that determination.

Originally posted by Hadrian
reply to post by centurion1211

 

Makes me imagine that surely Germany (or any other country) would welcome abandoning German customs, cultural identity and their name and excitedly forge a new nation-building alliance with its immigrants to reinvent itself. Everybody wins.

I completely, but respectfully disagree with that. Why would a country with such an esteemed, and cultured past, such as Germany, want to give that up? In my opinion that is ludacris. While people see part of their past as dark and negative, doesn't every country have some sort of skeleton in their closet? They should embrace their identity as Germans. Just like every country that is proud of their accomplishments should do. As citizens of the United States we should embrace our identity, the English theirs, the Dutch theirs, etc.

Multi-culturalism can work, but not the way leftists/marxists imagine. You have to appreciate differences and uniqueness of each culture rather than trying to force everything to be "equal". Such naive attempts actually destroy the opportunity for multi-culturalism, as evidenced throughout all of Europe.

reply to post by FBI 33


I don't agree with you either, respectfully. However, I was being sarcastic in that post. I agree that concept is ridiculous.

reply to post by Hadrian


Here in America we are a Multi Cultural Society . We All Try to get along , and Together we are a NATION . Cannot this also be said of those Countries in Europe with multipe Ethnic Populations ? What exactly is your Point you are trying to convey here ?

I see it this way

People are feed up now that everything is going south
(Thanks to the Bankers)

Europe gave people from other Countries (without nameing names) a chance to better there lives and what happened they stabbed the host Country in the back

The same is going on everywhere.

When you have a chance to start your life over you are suppose to become a part of that
Culture and not try to take it over with your own that you left behind.

Otherwise stay in your own Country and try to make it better.

That's all

Originally posted by Hadrian
reply to post by FBI 33

 

I don't agree with you either, respectfully. However, I was being sarcastic in that post. I agree that concept is ridiculous.

Ahh gotcha....reading it a second time the sarcasm comes across successfully

Originally posted by kimo57
I see it this way

People are feed up now that everything is going south
(Thanks to the Bankers)

Europe gave people from other Countries (without nameing names) a chance to better there lives and what happened they stabbed the host Country in the back

The same is going on everywhere.

When you have a chance to start your life over you are suppose to become a part of that
Culture and not try to take it over with your own that you left behind.

Otherwise stay in your own Country and try to make it better.

That's all

Kudos...Could not have said it better myself!!!

unfortunately I notice this in my country as well (canada). There are a lot of muslims and they don't want to integrate. The educated ones in my workplace speak their language whenever they can with their fellow muslim coworkers, and even mock my own culture in front me in my workplace (in a funny way yes, but deep down I feel a bit of resentment...seeing as how they came here, we didn't ask them to)....i feel like a minority sometimes. oh well..

reply to post by The Revenant


So.....social engineering of the Euro-Liberals has failed? That is what you are saying, and commiserating? The light in my head just switched on! Sorry for the delay. You'd call me a right wing fascist probably, but that's only because you cannot tolerate anyone having a view different to your own.

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Nor does it mean they can force upon others their former country's laws and traditions simply because they refuse and or are too lazy to adapt.

They can't force their laws or traditons on you, but if they believe through experience that those ways are better than yours they have every right to try and convince you. You might not like it any more than they like your traditions, but the dialogue is legitimate.

They can force their laws on me IF their beliefs and mine/host countries come in conflict. Don't fool yourself with semantics.

Originally posted by wayno
They probably immigrated for a better life in terms of higher wages and other material things. That does not mean they have to wipe out any and all of their cherished beliefs that happen to be different from the American norm.

Nice cherry picking. You left this part out here that I wrote.

Simply because an immigrant adopts the host countries culture doesn't mean they need to lose their heritage or traditions.

Originally posted by wayno
Something I am tempted to tell all the Americans on the anti-immigration bandwagon, perhaps YOU should consider returning to wherever it was your ancestors came from. Leave America to the natives and new immigrants who don't have problem with it.

Fine by me.
My heritage is mostly Native American. Mescalero. With some German and Italian thrown in for good measure.

Originally posted by The Revenant

What is happening to us in Europe? Have we forgotten the lessons of the past? Millions of us died, from all corners of the globe, so that the lessons learnt from the collapse of fascism could be indellibly printed upon our minds for all time.

In every country in Europe, we have this debate - is Islam welcome?

with " lessons past " id assume you are refering to the "european" wars/disputes which where fougth under sovereign mentality

and the key word in it all is sovereign and the de culturisation EU and much of the treaties have brought with them ,

i could go on but im getting to tired of it all , most of the old world dictators would roll in their graves when confronted with whats been going on in europe / e.u,

people have lost in less then three generations their roots, origins and culture