Merkel says German multicultural society has failed

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posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 03:23 AM
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Things are really assuming dangerous dimensions here in Germany. Just recently there was a report of the first housing contract with a an islamic clause in it. In it, the landlord would not not accept a tenant who eats pork, drinks alcohol or practices interest rate borrowing. Looking at this issue, it all appears to be engineered to happen this way. Add this to the recent news that islamic studies will be taught in some german universities and the picture would becomes clearer.

The germans are a hardworking people who deserve fairness. When you look at policies in the EU, they are conspicously disadvantaged. Though myself an immigrant, I don't accept the idea that a German would have to work till 67 years of age while his greek counterpart retires with 45 or the french who are now fighting to go with 60. The whole thing to me, makes no sense. Germany is a rich country but their people have to labour until few years to the grave. Why spend money financing other people's luxury when your people could make use of it?

What the woman said is quite obvious. The surprise is that she said it now. Being nationalistic and taking pride in ones tribe should not be criminalized. The actual problem is that a major chunk of immigrants who are muslims only want things their own way. I have often thought about why people like me leave their country for another but again think of the influence of the west in those countries people are leaving. Why arm other people against themselves, support tyrants and wage economic wars against nations? If there is a level playing ground, people would stay put in their home countries.But who knows the western idea of political correctness would evetually caused their demise. It is a measure built in to bring down the system.




posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 03:24 AM
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reply to post by xiphias
 


Exactly.

Immigration is the scapegoat that inept politicians turn to when they run out of solutions (or in some cases, their lies start to lose effectiveness).

We're seeing it now in the U.S with the debate over illegal immigration, especially among the gung-ho wanna-be cowboys that want to go and shoot brown people on the border.



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 03:26 AM
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reply to post by pro-all
 


Except that there's nothing positive about nationalism.

It's the older form of political trickery in the book. Get the citizens united under a flag and then sic them on the foreigners within that nation.



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 03:43 AM
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Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by Exuberant1
 


I trust that Germans know better than they did when Hitler was swept into power. However, it doesn't take much to get the sheep to move into that direction.


Times have changed.

We have this new thing now call Mutually Assured Destruction.

And the Jews have nukes. So Holocaust Part 2 ain't gonna happen.



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 04:16 AM
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Thankyou everyone for the fantastic discussions and debates that this question has brought up.

I think it's fair to say that this is something of a hot topic.

I'm very interested in some particular arguments people have been putting forward -
1) The difference between multiculturalism (MC), and multi-ethnicity (ME).
2) "MultiKulti" has failed - allegedly
3) Multiculturalism caused WW2
4) Islam is less worthy as a religion / culture to integrate into the west
5) Islamic values are bad
6) What is fascism?

My responses -
1) MC is a policy - we must never forget that. It is a progressive policy designed to allow economic and social fluidity for any given nation. People are the lifeblood of economics and societies, without this new lifelood, a society and economy will stagnate. Yes, I agree, it has been taken too far - but what most people suggest is a complete opposite now, which is unjust, and unfair. ME is a tangible, measurable subject. Most western countries are ME now - this is a good thing, anyone who suggests otherwise is fascist.

2) MC has failed. Mainly because, as other posters have pointed out, the legislators and leaders of western society have failed in their task of upholding LAW and being liberally FAIR about it. Allowing discrimination (from both sides) on the grounds of religious / cultural differences is wrong. Multiculturalism does not FAIL because it is MC, it fails, as usual, because we don't have the fortitude and 'smarts' to see it work properly. That and certain groups profit massively from seeing it fail.

3) MC did NOT cause WW2. Fascism, empire building, and the BANKS caused WW2. Which advisors do you think came up with the idea of economic debt based slavery that weakened and destroyed the Weimar government? Which organisations bank-rolled in secret and supported the fascist rise to power? Which organisations provoked the Japanese into fighting a stupid war with America? MC is NOT to blame for WW2. Period.

4) Islam is a religion. As a religion it carries with it a certain cultural flavour. Is it less worthy to integrate into the west because it is what it is? No - it's perfectly qualifed. Yes, I'm fully aware that Muslims don't always 'assimmilate' into the western form of slavery that we all find ourselves in - naturally, we'd all want to be slaves right? Like any other religiously dominated ethnicity / society, Muslim based cultures have their serious problems. But that's their issue - not ours. Our issue is when we make an exception for religious / arbitrary values in our social rules and law. When we fail to tackle religious input being forcd into state polcy, MC will fail. Therefore, for MC to work - as it must - we must promote the seperation of religion and state, and halt the slide back into the middle ages.

5) Islamic values combine a mixture of archaic and wholly civilized values. As do western cultures. Because we in the western world are not part of the Islamic culture base, we do not understand or involve ourselves in their value system. When the two meet, judgements are made about particular values that each holds, and stupid decisions made. Democracy demnds that the majority have things their way, and that the minority are included as much as possible. By changing a societies laws and precedents to match any minority is undemocratic. Make of that what you will.

6) I swing the word fascism like an axe in a broad arc. Mainly because a lot of the time fascist people do not know they are being fascist. Follow this below example -

Group A have big noses. Group B do not. Group B manages to convince the majority of the society present, that having a big nose is bad for everybody in the given society. Society says ah well, nobody is perfect. Over time, Group B demonizes and excludes Group A because they have big noses (they can't change because they were born that way, or just enjoyed having a big nose). Group A starts fighting back against this oppression because it's unfair and unjust. Group B, having more people on their side, begins to remove or exterminate this DANGEROUS and UNHEALTHY Group A.

Group B are fascists. Being anti-Islamic is fascist. Being anti-christian is fascist. Being anti-hindu is fascist. Being anti-big nose is fascist. Can you carry on the anti's to see where it leads you?

Being pro-secular is good, as you want to save religions from being persecuted. Being national interest - NOT nationalist. is good as you want to improve your society democratically. Persecuting a minority just because of what they are, is WRONG in any view - just because Islam is a rather blinkered and stupid way to lead your life, doesn't mean we can persecute and ostracize those who practise it. That woud be fascist.

The Revenant.
edit on 17-10-2010 by The Revenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by pro-all
 


Except that there's nothing positive about nationalism.

It's the older form of political trickery in the book. Get the citizens united under a flag and then sic them on the foreigners within that nation.


This is like saying a child should have more love for parents other its own. Remember myself as an immigrant should be on the firing line if what you said above is true. But do you really think people were created to mix up? We may deny it all we want but multi-culti has always been a problem since the earliest of time. I for one chose not to live in an islamic community or nation where I would be bombarded many times a day with their calls for prayer.



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 05:55 AM
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reply to post by Exuberant1
 


Ah but what about the Muslims?

Germany hates Muslims, the UK whines about them and the US wants to burn their books/mosques. They're being set up as the new scapegoats by TPTW.



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 05:57 AM
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reply to post by The Sword
 


You are behaving as if Germany is a person.

Don't.



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 05:58 AM
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reply to post by pro-all
 


Why is that I'm getting the vibe that you're a closeted racist?


Why shouldn't people be able to co-exist peacefully?

Somme argue that TPTW are behind multiculturalism. I beg to differ. I think they're using it as bait to get the racists to crawl out slowly.



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 05:59 AM
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reply to post by Exuberant1
 


Why are you taking this personally? Are you a German?

How about this: Merkel hates Muslims?



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 06:17 AM
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There are no countries, no borders. We're just fooling ourselves. Nationalism is a great tool for oppression, it also works miracles to divide neighbours, brothers and sisters.

Think for yourself,

patience.



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 06:21 AM
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reply to post by The Revenant
 


Well again, I think she exagerated by saying it "uterly failed", maybe she meant that government actions and programs for integration failed... the Government is not really doing anything against inmigrants...

Besides, I heard last month the French president just kicked all gypsys out of France... so, is it only Germany!?



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 06:24 AM
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I agree with her. Multicultural society has brought nothing good to Europe, only crazy ideologies which do not respect human rights and economic damage caused by poor and uneducated majority of immigrants. Maybe there are some positives, but the net effect of immigration and blind multiculturalism is bad for western civilization.



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 06:33 AM
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"Multikulti" doesn't work, basta! This has nothing to do with rassism or nationalism. It has to do that the relgions are not respecting each other. The Catholics say: "We are the only gods children". The Jews do the same, The Muslims too. It's much more complex because of the differences of within a religion like the fundis and the more modern believers. Angela is a very bad politician, i don't like her but this is just true. "Multikulti" just doesn't work.

Remember: The old Roman Empire came to an end because of the mix of too much "world pictures" and believes. The question is: How can we fix that? When we all loose our culture because everything is just mixed up like a fruit milk shake. Everybody will be dissatisfied.

That remembers me to the that casual "everybody's darling" films, art and music. At the end, nobody can view or hear it, because again - Everybody will be dissatisfied.



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 06:34 AM
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reply to post by The Revenant
 


Well how much of an effort did th Germans make to have multiculturalism? I know that Britain has tried very hard and is a good example of how ell it can work. It does not mean that there are not a few idiots but they are hell bent on trouble. as a one-time immigrant I now how hard I tried to fit in and how I was blocked by a handfull of biggots but britain is a great place to live for decenthardworking people who wish to obey the laws of the land!



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 06:39 AM
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Originally posted by tiger5
reply to post by The Revenant
 


Well how much of an effort did th Germans make to have multiculturalism? I know that Britain has tried very hard and is a good example of how ell it can work.


Nice one dude.


But tell us what you really think tho.



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 06:42 AM
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reply to post by Maslo
 


Do you understand that what you call "Europe" is a perpetuated lie? Simple yes or no question will suffice and show your ignorance for what it is.

Besides that, you fail to recognize the biggest damage done to what you call Europe is done by its own leaders. Have you ever taken the time to notice how it is the same leaders whom CREATE the problems, to point at problems and offer solutions in order to keep people quiet or divide them(otherwise known as winning votes)?

Like how you are being set up against these so called "ill educated immigrants", which by the way is a very generalizing term, dare I say xenophobia? I am one of those 'ill educated refugee immigrants' in 'europe'. Sadly, I understand more of history, grammar and politics of this place I was dragged to than most of its native inhabitants and uni professors. How is that for ill-educated? Though, feel free as it is your good right to be and remain ignorant for as long as you want.

Again, a simple yes or no answer will suffice to my wall of text. The question is in the first sentence.



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 06:51 AM
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Try not to take her comments to heart without the full context of whats said.

She's basically trying to devise a harder line in German immigration policy so that her political party can compeat with rivial partys immigration litirature.

The only worth while point is that she says immigrants should make more of an effort to speak the German language so that they can intergrate easier with society.


eee.



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 06:57 AM
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reply to post by Zamini
 




Do you understand that what you call "Europe" is a perpetuated lie?


No. Do you believe Europe does not exist?




Besides that, you fail to recognize the biggest damage done to what you call Europe is done by its own leaders.


Yes, they are responsible for many damages, even for multiculti and immigration damage, because they are the ones who make laws. I dont blame immigrants - they simply follow the path of least resistance, and if I was an immigrant, I would porbably do the same. I blame politicians too.



Have you ever taken the time to notice how it is the same leaders whom CREATE the problems, to point at problems and offer solutions in order to keep people quiet or divide them(otherwise known as winning votes)?


Yes, they are the ones responsible for immigration problems and failure of multi-culti.



Like how you are being set up against these so called "ill educated immigrants", which by the way is a very generalizing term, dare I say xenophobia?


No, its simple economy and statistics. Ratio of educated people above immigrants is lower than in general populace of Europe, therefore the net effect of immigration is lowering average education level, which is national socioeconomic suicide in current conditions - we already have excess number of underqualified people on the job market, even without the immigrants. More uneployment, falling of price of underqualified work, strain on social system.. You name it. I know it may sound harsh for the immigrants, but thats what logic and reality says - net effect of immigration on domestic economy and society is negative.



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 06:59 AM
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reply to post by The Revenant
 


I agree with Merkel and the sentiment among the German population...because it's quite predictable that as more and more foreigners arrive in Europe, specifically foreigners who refuse to assimilate to western culture and customs..... and thus have the law bent to appease and protect those who do not agree with the customs and law of the land in which they reside....in that process Germany begins to lose its culture and traditions and there's no way in bringing it back once it is gone.





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