Merkel says German multicultural society has failed

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by DSSONE

 

You say: " I do not see much integration in the cities and towns I travel to in the north west! "

I am going to be blunt about this. I live in Canada and have bumped shoulders with plenty of ex-pat Brits of every stripe and demeanor. Even the nicest of them seem to have this inbred distaste for people from the Middle East and to a lesser degree, people of other cultures.

That is an observation consistently repeated in my 62 years of life here. I have no explanation for it. It is just so. I completely believe that multiculturism is a difficult thing to accept for most of you there other than a quaint curiosity or source of ethnic "take-away".

Something I am tempted to tell all the Americans on the anti-immigration bandwagon, perhaps YOU should consider returning to wherever it was your ancestors came from. Leave America to the natives and new immigrants who don't have problem with it.

Apologies Wayno, by a previous post I assumed you were based in America for some reason. All I can say is that the ex pats you speak of may not be representative of society as a whole. Interestingly I spent some time in the Quebec area and although most of the people there were charm personified, there was a distinct element of anti Brit amongst some, to the point of disdain. Perhaps there is good reason but not sure I know what it could be... must be my fault as my French is quite rusty.

reply to post by something wicked

I assume that you agree with Woodrow Wilson who said that the League Against Colonialism was racist. Do you know how viciously the Conquistadors slaughtered everyone they encountered in the so-called "New World"? Their Latino descendants have no right to squat here; We remaining three million indigenous tribespeople of the continent you mistakenly call North America determine who are citizens are.

Originally posted by Raider of Truth
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

How's it worked out for you then?
Hatred,racism,tensions, ghettos, run down cities, mass immigration. Your reputation is in tatters most of the world hates you and now you have right wing militias everywhere with an economy that could collapse with China's money.

If your not living here in Europe you don't see what's going down the mexicans and cubans are nothing to the colonisation we are facing.

Also how is American culture multicultural. Your telling me you are happy to see Mosques everywhere, bin bags walking everywhere (burka), armies of offspring outbreeding your people. Do you have that?

Do you allow Muslims their own laws like Sharia?

If you don't have it like us,you will do soon. Oceans only stop things..for a time at least.

edit on 17/05/09 by Raider of Truth because: (no reason given)

Well, you've made your feelings known. For the sake of anyone who may mistake the type of trash spewed out above as representative of English people, please do not be mistaken. You know what? If Mosques are well attended and the messages preached represent the moderate views held by the vast majority of the followers of Islam, I'd say there should be as many as needed - kind of makes you wonder why our own churches are so poorly attended though doesn't it?

Originally posted by Doujutsu

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Multiculturalism is one of the biggest Wolves in Sheep's Clothing ideas in modern times.

The goals of this ideology appear peaceful and unifying from outside, but at its core this is a simple Divide and Conquer technique encouraging Conflict and Division.

Hmm sounds interesting.

I was reading protocols of the elders of Zion the other day and one of the goals that was stated in it was.

•Start fights between different races, classes and religions

You think theres some conspiracy there?

Well, seeing as the book you mention is well known to have been written to undermine the Jewish race, you were kind of reading an appeal to conspiracy in a book designed to maintain a conspiracy.

Originally posted by Cythraul

Originally posted by wayno
I believe strongly in multicultualism, but I also understand if someone wants to marry withing their ancestral group. No big deal. Why the paranoia? Just because some might alternatively want to marry someone from a different background, also Big Deal! Their decision does not affect yours in any way.

No, you're actually right! And this is why I've moved away from my former Nationalist beliefs somewhat. England will never be overwhelmingly English again. The only thing that can make it so is forced repatriation, which is a frightening, fascist tactic I will never lend support to. I've come to the sombre conclusion that all I (and others proud of their English identity) can do is to preserve it within our own personal lives and families.

However... you say no-one's stopping me from doing this. I'm afraid you're wrong. You may be enlightened enough to accept ethnic preservation on an individual level, but most pro-multiculturalists are not. If I admitted in public that I will only ever reproduce with another ethnic-English person I would be ripped to shreds. Furthermore, our children are being indoctrinated to want mixed-race relationships. It's not State policy yet but it's coming.

I'm sorry, but the part I've highlighted in bold - could you prove that please? Could you perhaps direct me to some rule somewhere or even a comment made by anyone that has stated you are not free to choose your sexual partners based on your own taste? What I have a feeling you mean is that if you said words along the lines of I would never #### with a ####### #### (I'll let you guess the missing words) then you may be seen as a little outre in your way of expressing yourself, but that is a different matter.

Originally posted by destination now
reply to post by maybereal11

 

Oy you forgot the Scots lol okay celts, picts whatever...that is ancient history though and as ubermensch pointed out we are all ultimately related...

But how we have developed through the millennia is also important and to keep saying, well you are not English, American, German etc as you are all descened from everyone, doesn't really solve today's problems! We may be all the same people, but we are living in different times

Hi there, I completely agree with the above but a lot of people think history is static - always in the remote past. If someone comes to a country and has a child, isn't that child then a child of that country? I'm guessing you agree but not sure all in this thread do.

So, just to be clear on what I'm saying based on what someone else posted on here, let's assume an immigrant comes to England, they either come with their partner or meet a partner in England and to cut a long story short, a child is born. That child is then English. How far back in ones ethnic backgroud should one go to say that person or their children, their childrens children etc are or are not ethnic English?

Originally posted by ChiefHuntingBear
reply to post by something wicked

 

I assume that you agree with Woodrow Wilson who said that the League Against Colonialism was racist. Do you know how viciously the Conquistadors slaughtered everyone they encountered in the so-called "New World"? Their Latino descendants have no right to squat here; We remaining three million indigenous tribespeople of the continent you mistakenly call North America determine who are citizens are.

Why would you assume I agree or disagree with such a comment unless I explicitly stated it? On face value I disagree, but without researching it that is no more than reading the comment at the level you have written it.

Why do you say it is mistakenly called North America? That is its current name. If you are a descendant of a race that call it Terrapin Island, then cool, how do you know that a potentially earlier indigenous race did not call it something different? The town I live in used to have a name based more strongly on the Nordic language. It no longer does - does that make the current name false?

reply to post by something wicked


was gonna say something witty but i deem it to be pointless,

hasent the lakota tribe already torn the ORIGINAL lease of land
and with bush jr signing the U.N indigenous peoples "act"
most if not a majority of all "americans" are occuping illegaly.

reply to post by something wicked


Canada, where I live, is in North America! Did someone change that??

Brits have garnered a certain amount of resentment for their many years of acting superior to everyone else. They might have been from poor circumstances back home, but once here, they saw themselves as the "upper class" relative to everyone else. I guess they relished a chance to give what they got.

I think its petered out tho and today in Canada at least, it is your skills and character that are looked at moreso than your ethnic background. I am not saying prejudice doesn't exist; just that there is a degree of sensibility taking hold. I think its great and feel sorry for those around the world that are having such difficulty with the concept (of multiculturalism).

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by something wicked

 

Canada, where I live, is in North America! Did someone change that??

Brits have garnered a certain amount of resentment for their many years of acting superior to everyone else. They might have been from poor circumstances back home, but once here, they saw themselves as the "upper class" relative to everyone else. I guess they relished a chance to give what they got.

I think its petered out tho and today in Canada at least, it is your skills and character that are looked at moreso than your ethnic background. I am not saying prejudice doesn't exist; just that there is a degree of sensibility taking hold. I think its great and feel sorry for those around the world that are having such difficulty with the concept (of multiculturalism).

lol, I know a lot of Canadians that wouldn't refer to themselves as Americans which by virtue of your first sentence, they would be.

I'm not so sure your experience is 100% representative of Canada as a whole Wayno, but if it's working where you are then all power to you. As an example though, in 2006, Toronto's Globe and Mail referred to suspected terrorists in Canada as "brown skinned young men". The term "visible minority" is legally used in Canada to describe people of colour - any non white colour. Many would say that isn't in line with the ethos of a multi cultural society.

reply to post by ChiefHuntingBear


I am sorry if I have missed something in your posts, but I think I am hearing you say that your ancestors did not come from anywhere else. They originated or were "created" in the land now referred to as North America.

You obviously therefore believe in multiple creation sites for humans. Do you have a thread where you elaborate on this? If not, would you consider doing so?

I think you stated somewhere in this thread that these different types of humans should all live seperately from each other, only trading as necessary. What I don't understand is why?

So what that humans may have sprung up or evolved from different centres. They are all human and can procreate together. Why should they not? Mongrels are often superior to pure-breds in the animal kingdom. Why should it be any different for humans?? It may be an interesting curiosity to maintain some purebreds, but what good does it do for humanity in the long run?

Why? Why should we be concerned about mixing??

reply to post by something wicked


Yea, I think I misread your original word, "America". We Canadians surely do not like to be confused with those down south of us.

I am all for multi-culturalism, but I am also for being realistic. Sometimes ethnicity or race is a factor that has to be considered -- crime being an example. If statistics show a scue for a particular group then that needs to be dealt with honestly and directly. If in fact there is more crime attributable to one group; then that information should help us find the root cause. Crimes usually come out of poor living circumstances and have nothing to do with ethnicity per se and so while statistics should not be used to slander the whole group, nor should they be ingnored in the name of silly political correctness.

People who don't think things through often end up with bad conclusions. Not being honest or realistic is one of those poor conclusions. It is not that we acknowledge or address the facts of a person's appearance, culture or background, its the negative stereotypes, or pre-judgments we make about those things that is wrong.

Multiculturalism will always fail, simply because it isn't meant to be that way.

There is definitely nothing wrong with racially homogeneous culture.

Its really good to see that the entire scam that multiculturalism is is starting to fail, even after decades of having government jam it down everyones throats.

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by something wicked

 

Yea, I think I misread your original word, "America". We Canadians surely do not like to be confused with those down south of us.

I am all for multi-culturalism, but I am also for being realistic. Sometimes ethnicity or race is a factor that has to be considered -- crime being an example. If statistics show a scue for a particular group then that needs to be dealt with honestly and directly. If in fact there is more crime attributable to one group; then that information should help us find the root cause. Crimes usually come out of poor living circumstances and have nothing to do with ethnicity per se and so while statistics should not be used to slander the whole group, nor should they be ingnored in the name of silly political correctness.

People who don't think things through often end up with bad conclusions. Not being honest or realistic is one of those poor conclusions. It is not that we acknowledge or address the facts of a person's appearance, culture or background, its the negative stereotypes, or pre-judgments we make about those things that is wrong.

Absolutely and I applaud your thinking. My point was simply that sadly, there are elements that can be found in each country that go against what many people think a multi cultural society should be - Herouxville in Quebec for example prohibits students from covering their faces or praying while in school. While I know there are a lot of feelings on both sides about the former (face covering), prohibiting praying isn't really leading the way from a multi culture point of view.

Now, this is by no means meant as a means to bash Canada, I do love the country, I just wanted to point out that examples can be found in every country that go against the ideal - and I mean the real ideal, not something that has to be placed into legislature.

reply to post by torqpoc


I am left a bit confused. You implied I was wrong in saying multiculturism might not be working because you don't want it to, but then said it yourself -- that not everyone wants the multicultural world I was advocating.

It really does come down to what you all want and work towards. As a Canadian I might think it stupid for a European country to be mono-cultured, but if that is what the citizens want then so be it. Just glad I don't have to live there.

I see some very disturbing things being done by immigrants there in Europe; advocating violence and the like. I have no sympathy for those who do those things. On the other hand I also believe that many immigrants have for generations not had equal opportunities for success and advancement. There have even been recent stories in Canada of immigrants being exploited. These are the things that lead to radicalization and discontent from them. To that extent we reap what we sow.

If they had a better chance of being a real, accepted part of the community that respected their culture and differences instead of insisting on total assimilation; then there would be fewer terrorists and discontents for sure.

Originally posted by ChiefHuntingBear
reply to post by SheeplFlavoredAgain

 

SheepFlavoredAgain, I'm glad you're here to give an honest reaction to my arguments about the problems Chancellor Merkel sees with multi-culturalism in Deutschland. Rather than drop out of this conversation because you feel you don't have anything unique to say why don't you act as a soundingboard or at least a witness? Would multi-culturalism be worthwhile even if it were attainable?

I looked up "Terrapin Island Native American" to try and learn more about what you're talking about and where you're coming from in this discussion. "Terrapin Island" only turned up references to a South Carolina island that had turtles on it. My more complete search term turned up only one site for me about the First People of Canada and North America. That site was a bit commercial--offering up art and poetry but no real information I could take away to help me understand your comments better and your insistence that we are using a false name. The First People on that site themselves use the name "Canada" and "North America". I could find nothing indicative of a wish to remove non First People from the continent. So I have to admit I come up empty in understanding this social movement that you seem to be claiming to represent to reclaim your ancestral lands and culture from the newcomers at large. Can you please provide references so I can learn more? I don't know if they will help me in THIS discussion but I am interested in learning more just out of intellectual curiosity.

Unfortunately I can not comply with your apparent wish/dream that I remove myself from this continent to lands of my own origin because at this late point in time I don't think those lands would recognize me as one of their own and I'd have to undergo rigorous and onerous procedures that frankly I can't afford financially to re-enter countries whose languages and customs are alien to me and my family. And unfortunately I think that's the problem that would be faced by many of the people you would wish to get rid of and therefore isn't likely to come to fruition. So I ask you...can YOU think of some way to find it in your heart to forgive the sins of the past and embrace those of us who are here and move FORWARD together, in harmony and peace? Can you not see what you might have in COMMON with us "invaders"? Will you forever hate me for things that people who are not even my direct ancestors did to your people? Will you ever accept my existence on your ancestral lands and will you ever accept that I have nothing but love and respect for you in my heart because I perceive you to be my brother in creation?

LOL--as to what you ask me about multiculturalism, well as I said before, I think people can overcome ANY differences in religion, national origin, race, gender, etc, provided they WILLINGLY agree to serve the needs of a common community. I do see examples of this working around me and when it does, it means the participants are putting into practice certain ideals. The participants should retain their religions and their skin color and their gender identity and the language of their ancestors when these things do not impede everyone working together to do their jobs, provide or receive education and other public services. There is ONE agreed upon official language to facilitate commerce and communication wherever mixing occurs. There should be acknowledgement of "sins" of previous generations and learning from this, but no wallowing in it and no holding grudges. There should be respect and tolerance for people practicing and holding their respective religious beliefs privately. ( I personally am not opposed to public teaching of religion if it's done as an academic exercise and not an attempt at proseletyzing. For example at my daughter's private school she learns about the holidays celebrated in other religions as well as in her own Christian religion. It's simply an academic exercise and nothing more).

In fact it's from seeing how happy and loving the students in her school are toward one another, that I believe is is not only possible but natural to get along. These children are still young and untainted by the prejudices that the cynical adults are mired in. The school is a private one but is not an elite one--in fact we chose it over public school because of the staff's commitment to teach character and avoiding cliques and bullying. We have children of various races and national origins and abilities.

I think the barriers that adults encounter are artificial. See, I believe in morality. I believe in good and I believe in evil. I'm not a member of a particular religion--I believe in the teachings of Christ but even if Christ were somehow proven to be a mythological figure I would still believe in the validity of the teachings presented as his. I believe we did not arise randomly from primordial sludge but were lovingly designed out of it.

I believe from the dawn of our origins evil somehow causes human beings to unite in the cause of division, chaos, hatred and persecution of one another. Some will say this is just animal nature. Well animals are more mechanical about their battles. Simple invade and eat. We actually savor torturing and causing misery to each other. That's evil. Some might say evil impulse ARE natural but it is my opinion we are put on this earth to overcome our evil impulses and learn lessons to improve ourselves to as close a state of a loving nature as possible. What happens when we reach this...I have no idea based on any scientific evidence. But in my faith I believe it prepares an eternal part of our selves for ascension to a better existence in the land of eternal sunshine and daisies. LOL...well not exactly but you get my drift...

To that end, we also have a spark of the divine in us, the impulse to be selfless and good and work together. To work in service to others and not just in service to self. I'm sorry I know my discussion of good and evil is terribly simplistic but I have to keep it that way to stay somewhat within topic and move on to the on topic points. I just wanted to give enough info to let you know where I'm coming from with my beliefs and observations on the potential for human beings to overcome differences and get along.

Looking around to what's being discussed elsewhere over ATS I see everything converging to produce fear, hatred, chaos, isolation. I don't think this is accidental. I think we're seeing the culmination yet again, perhaps not seen since the last world war, of all evil from all aspects of our human existence coming together to pit us against one another. To restate what I have been saying in another discussion on ATS, elements of our pop culture, our more stupid government policies, our literature, our journalism, our religions, even our social movements (that were supposed to work for our good) are coming together to pit us against one another now more than ever. I see so much gender strife, racial strife, conflicts between citizens and immigrants, both legal and illegal. These things have always been with us, but now it seems like there's a concerted effort to magnify the strife and make it be all we think about and worry about. In the past such worry and obsession over these workable things has tipped us to global fighting and mass murder. And I think forces in our society are converging to do that again. Indeed, looking at places like Darfur, it never really stops but if we keep at the rate we're going with the hate, the things that happened in Darfur will be global.

We have laws in place that used to serve us fairly well to contain the strife caused by immigration and minimize it but these seem to be ignored for no logical reason by our elected leaders. So you do get the immigrants causing problems at a more intense and larger scale than has happened in the past of most nations. We have theoretically positive social movements like civil rights and feminism that get coopted by extreme ideologies that cause as many injustices as they were designed to cure. Do I think that's an accident? Call me paranoid, but no. I don't think its any more accidental than so many of our economies all getting thrown into collapse or the brink of collapse at the same time.

LOL--I know plenty of people who do believe it's not part of some grand evil design and think it's all coincidental or related, but not in a designed way. That's why I'm on ATS and they're not! And maybe I'm wrong. Who knows, who cares. I've got my opinions but in the grand scheme of things I live a typical suburban sheeple life. That's why I call myself SheeplFlavored--(it was SUPPOSED to be spelled SheepleFlavored but I have lousy vision and typed my name wrong!) Sorry for the long post. For someone who was supposed to shut up I sure wrote a ton. Well..you asked so you have only yourself to blame for that!

reply to post by something wicked

Something Wicked, my indigenous Terrapin tribespeople have been here since they sprang up out of the ground millions of years ago and some of our remains in the southeast portion of Terrapin Island have been proven by carbon dating and even more accurate electron resonance imaging to be seventy thousand years old. We are not related, for instance, to the homo sapien species of humans that sprang up from Egypt, who have no right to name places much less live here.

Originally posted by ChiefHuntingBear
reply to post by something wicked

 

Something Wicked, my indigenous Terrapin tribespeople have been here since they sprang up out of the ground millions of years ago and some of our remains in the southeast portion of Terrapin Island have been proven by carbon dating and even more accurate electron resonance imaging to be seventy thousand years old. We are not related, for instance, to the homo sapien species of humans that sprang up from Egypt, who have no right to name places much less live here.

Right...... ok, then congratulations, I'm glad we've cleared up the fact you state you are not indeed of the homo sapien genus. Would it possibly be homo trolliem that you are a member of?

reply to post by wayno

My east coast indigenous Terrapin tribespeople ancestors enjoyed trading freely with the Portuguese for five hundred years before the Medicis withdrew their blood-thirstiest warriors from fighting Crusades in northern Africa and southwest Asia in order to redeploy them here as Conquistadors to rob us of our resources, land and lives under the pretext of the "Law Of Discovery". Any talk about multi-culturalism on this continent is by criminal occupiers who don't own the home they're inviting guests to live in with them.

reply to post by wayno

Wayno, for various reasons I've been provocative this first week replying to posts on ATS. But my tone will change soon when I am start to post longer, more detailed, better essays than I have so far to start threads of my own. I'm encouraged by your interest in participating in group conversations with me.