I think this is the first post on this board in a while, and I might be beating a dead horse into the ground, but I just had to say something about such a ridiculous subject.

Kano and OIMD, you both go back in forth with well thought-out legitimate points. If you were a lawyer either defending or prosecuting the existence of John Titor, would opinions and interperetations of Titor's text hold any water? Each of you gives valid reasons and rebuttal, but to truly prove if JT is a hoax, you must look at the hard evidence - what is definitely true and what is definitely false. I say take what JT said as it is, and choose yourself what you want to do with it.

As far as the famous "laser" image taken by Titor's "instructor" goes; I'm no physics expert, and I don't know anyone in this board who is, but I would like to see what a college professor has to say about these photos and diagrams. If these pictures and diagrams are really legit, then why would John Titor want to share his "recipie" for a "time-travel device." That was his first post, wasn't it? It seems a little ironic that a man from the future in disdain of our society would give us this future technology, of which they only have 7 units of in the year 2036, to enable us to travel into his "superior" society.

I don't really know what I'm talking about when it comes to this field of science, so don't insult me if this sounds dumb, but wouldn't the entire image we are seeing be affected by the gravitational field that is produced? If the laser light is affected, then shouldn't the gravity affect the light that enables us to see images clearly, i.e. making the photo as a whole, distorted? Whoever responds to this, I don't want a physics lesson, just a simple yes or no answer with a little explanation is fine.

Also, didn't this guy say he was born in 1998? If we really cared that much, wouldn't we be able to, say, find his birth records, if he exists? John Titor was 3 years old when 9/11 happened, so it's understandable that he might have omitted/dismissed it in his transcripts. However, 9/11 was about 30 years ago, and I have learned things in my education going that far back and further. In Titor's society where people "can multiply and divide in their heads," I think Titor would at least have some knowledge, from an educational standpoint, on the impact 9/11 had on our society - much like history students learn about the impacts of Vietnam and Watergate. But alas, I am speaking out of both sides of my mouth.

All the talk about John Titor being some sort of low-life sci-fi bimbo with a lot of free time seems to stereotype in this case. Look at this experience as a whole. Did a sci-fi author go to this much trouble to create 20 pages of intelligible (to Titor, at least) dialogue? Maybe this Titor fellow has another motif. Who knows? This can be just some guy trying to scare us, someone who thinks he/she can predict the future, someone with sick humor, (anti-Bush?) propaganda of some sort, or an intelligible person making predictions because they think our society, country, and planet are being flushed down the moral toilet of the universe (Omega Agency/New World Order-esque)? I don't know, but whoever wrote this didn't intend it to be treated like it has. Ok, so JT doesn't exist, but maybe some of the stuff he wrote in 2000 can relate to us now.

By the way, "John Titor", I could've created a higher quality picture of a bent laser beam using Microsoft PaintBrush. Seriously, that photo quality sucks.

[edit on 22-7-2004 by JohnEveryman]

I too will wait until the end of 2004 and 2005 to entirely dismiss JT's claims. But I did want to quote at least two things he did say that are interesting (vague-ness may be a symptom of a lack of context, or a symptom of fakery, we'll see):

From the archive:

One:

"02/19/01 16:01 (about the future) 445
((12.) Does China have a manned space program between 2001 and 2036? ))

I believe they are pretty close to putting a man in orbit. It shouldn?t surprise you if they do that soon. "

This occured on October 14, 2003. I suppose "soon" could be debated. Granted, the fact that someone in early 2001 asked this question means that at some level the existence and then-current status of the Chinese program could have been on the minds of people in January 2001. Does this mean that JT gives a "good guess"?

Two:

"02/25/2001 08:00 am (about time travel) 539
((3) Ever hear the story of Oedipus? To make a long sotry short, after being told he will kill his father and marry his mother he moves far away. On the road he accidentally killed his father and ended up marrying his mother. Thus, the prophecy is what caused him to fulfill it. You say you don't want to effect anything too much by giving out information, but you could drastically change this worldline just by talking about the war, or anything for that matter.?))
I see your point but do you think Oedipus would not have taken those actions if he didn’t know the prophecy? I don’t believe that knowing a possible future makes it happen. You are capable of changing your worldline for the better right now. None of the things I have said will be a surprise. They were set in motion ten, twenty, even thirty years ago. Are you really surprised to find out that Iraq has nukes now or is that just BS to whip everyone up into accepting the next war? "

Again, the "next" war could be debated. Is it the War on Terror? Do we consider the Invasion of Iraq (March of 2003, two years after the above quote) as a part of the War on Terror? Or would someone from the future (not saying here that I believe JT) catagorize it differently, as many have mentioned above?

Please note that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence; if JT "fails" to mention the World Trade Center does it really discount his story? I would caution everyone to only try to expose flaws in the actual material that JT gave us (the photos and manual are a good start, and for some, the finish of the debate.)

Honestly, I do find that I have to put aside my reservations about the pictures and scans in order to begin to look at his posts.

We will simply have to wait until the expiration dates end on his Second Civil War...

I do find it very interesting that on smaller things he was in good agreement with "history": he did get the "IT" scam correct -- "Ginger", or as it is better known, the Segway was pure hype; his CERN predictions were also correct; and his disclosure of the unpublished virtual machine aspect of the IBM 5100 was also correct. I suppose these can be better described as research successes on the part of a hoaxer, but then again, I think I'll go back to my place on the fence and wait for 2005.

<>

Titor clearly stated in one of his rules that he would not give information that would keep someone safe from harm. For him to have warned of any of the above would have done so.

Let's try this again:

[Another large thing with all of Titor's comments and predictions. Is that he never once mentioned 9-11, the Bali Bombing, the Madrid Bombings, the Invasion of Afghanistan or Iraq. In fact nothing about the war on terror at all.]

Titor clearly stated as one of his rules that he would not give out information that kept someone safe from harm. The above clearly qualifies.

Uh, if he can mention 'WACO Style events' every month throughout 2004 leading up to a Civil War just after the election. He could quite easily have made reference to any aspect of the War on Terror without giving specifics. He didn't have to say "on the 11th September 2001 Hijacked planes will be flown into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon". He failed to make any reference at all.

eh i think this dude is one beer short of a 6pack. also so he was in 2000 at the time? so where did he stay? a hotel or what? was he living in his car thing? i mean if he did get a hotel they need id's and it would say born in 98.people would have been like umm what? i doubt he knew anyone he would have been able to stay with. s o thats why i think it is all fake.

Probably restating the obvious, but didn't he say that the olympics would not happen? Or was it that they would not finish?

Originally posted by Jonna
Probably restating the obvious, but didn't he say that the olympics would not happen? Or was it that they would not finish?

Thought Mr titor said the olympics would result in a blood bath Or something like that. Can't remember

I don't think you can debunk any of this testimony from JT with the evidence you have provided in fact SOME of JT's comments hold much truth..

Please Read
There are some questions to be raised that have some contradictions but there are also many truths which can be supportive of JT's claims. Time travel can be done and has been done before. Einstein specifically gave testimony and prophecy of our time period with incredible details. How did he know? He was involved in time travel experiments from the 1940's onward. Einstein warned of many of the events of today and gave some very specific details to prove his prophecy is accurate. He warned of terrorism, world war, and the end of time with fire. He said we would know the time of the end was near first with terrorism followed by arrogant presidents. He said Venus would give a great sign pasing the sun. Man would travel to the depths of the ocean. World War III would occur. A civil war would break out AND the end of the age with cataclysm/fire. Einstein had seen the past and the future. His time travel experiments showed he could not travel into the future beyond 2012. There was a road block. It was like the laws of physics came to a hault as we know it.
Now I would like to bring up some scientific facts. We have theorized the "Big Bang" most likely did not occur from a singularity. The universe is like one giant floating membrane which can collide with another universe membrane causing a "Big Bang" effect. This can change the physics and reality of the universe in an instant. Why is the earths rotaion speed increasing? Why si the pitch of the earth increasing? Where does Gravity come from? If anyone knows science out there you can only conclude we are drifting closer and closer to another collision. Because of this scientific conclusion of not having the ability to travel beyond 2012 along with the factual basis of a 26,000(?) year cycle occuring Einstein concluded we were due for another "Big Bang" causing fire from the reformation of the universe. Einstein claimed Men would raise themselves up like God. A false God would come followed by the real God just before the end. Einstein also believed in Aliens and was agnostic which represents another conclusion. God is Extra Terrestrial. Einstein claimed whoever could overcome what is to come in 2012 then you too would be like God.
The next point I would like to bring up is having the ability to go back in time. I am not a physicist so I can not answer my next observation. If the Universe suffered a Big Bang tomorrow and I went back 1000 years in time today is that possible then to live another 1001 years? I find a startling similarity in the HAARP program to the creation of a magnetic field to allow the entire earth to travel back in time from within that field.
The next issue to bring up is if indeed we could travel back in time then without effecting the population on earth we would have to live elsewhere, like perhaps, mars? Maybe that explains the whole UFO phenomenon in a nutshell. If you travel back in time and lived in Space (The Heavens) you would exist outside time for that period much like God. You would know everyone before they were even born. (Just like God) You would know the future. (Just like God) You would also have the return of the Angels/Nephilim just before the initial timetravel back in time because we all would have to be inside the field to survive. Interesting concepts

Now with all that said, which I hold much more accurate, believing in Einstein's word of no existence beyond 2012 I find it hard to believe JT is from 2035(6) or whatever he said. I find it impossible to believe.

[edit on 24-8-2004 by Raphael]

Raphael...Where did you get that information about Einstein's prophecies? Do you have any links or proof? I'm not doubting you in any way, but I have never heard of these claims supposedly made by him. If you can provide a link or two with some information on this I would be very thankful!

There's no sign of civil unrest? Imagine for a minute that GW cheats his way back into office. I guarantee that the American people, not republicans nor democrats, will not stand for another selection in place of an election. As far as the civil unrest goes... I suppose you haven't heard of the Patriot Act? Look it up. I'll quote the summary as stated in HR 3162 RDS. "To deter and punish terrorist acts in the United States and around the world, to enhance law enforcement investigatory tools, and for other purposes. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled." Basically, it breaks down to this... how much freedom are you willing to give up to feel safe. This means that they can enter anyones home, anywhere, anytime. Still feel safe?

If that isn't enough... I believe Titor said something about reading the Constitution. Has anyone? If not, let me enlighten you with an interesting fact. The United States is not supposed to have an active duty military according to the Constitution. The writers of the Constitution made this blantantly obvious because if the United States had to enter into a war, they wanted the army to be comprised of its citizens, not of the government. Why do you think the first army in the US were all national guardsmen? Because they were adhering to the strict limitations of the Constitution.

So why is this pertinent to the Titor topic? I'll enlighten you on this as well. Our government is much stronger than its citizens, which was not the intent of the founders of our country. The 2000 "election" is a prime example of this. It is only a matter of time until people stand up and take back what rightfully belongs to them... Their freedom. With that being said, what side will you be on? I know where I stand.

Let's make something else clear. In the upcoming election, we have 2 candidates. Bush, who is clearly an idiot without remorse. And Kerry, who is also an idiot without remorse. The only thing we have to go on here is to pick the lesser of the two evils. We already know what Bush has done in office. He has gotten us in two wars, and has left open the possibility of pursuing the other "axis of evil" members. Is this really what you want? Actually, join the military, then answer that... Because anyone can watch TV. Your vote is up to you, and I don't support either candidate. Right now, everyone in the world hates us, and we are only trying to dig a deeper hole. I personally don't care if Bush pulls Bin Laden out of his ass, because in the big picture, that does not matter anymore. I'm sure he's banking on that to ensure his reelection, but let's face some facts... What difference will it make? Does he really think he can blind people from the wars with gay marriage, Bin Laden, and pro-life? If he can, then you are truly a sheep and deserve what happens to you.

Another thing that amazes me is how quickly people shoot down this John Titor. Let me make a few things clear. I am currently a fence sitter on the issue because there is no empirical evidence in either direction whether or not he was a time travellor. What surprises me is that people are more concerned with whether he was or not, and not the message he was trying to send. Let's suppose he was just a shmuck online that decided he was fed up with what was happening and he decided to do something about it. The message is simple. American people, as a collective whole, are arrogant, egotistical, and "secluded." As if that weren't enough, our government is worse than we could ever be. It's going to catch up with us. The world will not change because some government orders it to do so. The way we change the world is to change the little things we do now as individuals. It is much easier to point the finger and say that's wrong, than it is to look at your own life and see your own imperfections.

Now let's see the flip side of the coin. Suppose John Titor is real, and travelled to our time. The question you should be asking yourself is... why? According to his story, he went back to 1975, then to 2000. Why 2000? Why not 1990? We would have had more time to change. With that being said, if he was real, I don't believe he was trying to change anything at all. He never made any predictions as far as I'm concerned. He basically told us what was in his past, not what our future held. This in turn has made me think even further... Why are people so threatened by this guy? Do you need to prove that the earth is flat, and that anyone that disagrees with you is an idiot? Sounds like a story I've heard before... Something about Columbus ring a bell?

Another interesting fact is this...
Supposing again that Titor was real...
We had someone very similar to him in our past already. It was so simple, yet we made it so difficult. You might be familiar with this story...
Someone spoke up one day and said to love your neighbor the way you would want to be loved. Pray with all of your heart. And forgive. Before you know it, we had a new religion called Christianity and catholicism. This was never intended. He came to send a simple message. One that we interpreted and changed... look where that got us. Basically, don't make deductive judgements based on what you feel inside. Look outside the box. The answer is clear and simple. We as a people need to return to the basics, not hope that some machine can do it for us.

I am not here to support the candidates, John Titor, or Jesus Christ. I am here to offer my insight into the issue. After it is all said and done, we will still be here, one way or another. What you have to decide is where you stand. Will you be a sheep and follow what people tell you. Or will you think for yourself. The information is out there... all you have to do is dig.

-J.E-

"The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse. The conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012 and end in 2015 with a very short WWIII."

He is not saying that there will be a Waco type event every month of 2004. He is saying that there will be a Waco type event every month of the civil war, and that this war will start in 2004. Therefore, he has four more months for these"Waco type" events to start occuring.

One could assume that he meant that 2004 would have a Waco type event every month, but he doesn't actually say this.

[edit on 29-8-2004 by melon1]

didn't JT say: "Are you really surprised to find out that Iraq has nukes now or is that just BS to whip everyone up into accepting the next war? "

that's really weird.. :S

Well said Cold Steel.

By the way, if we ever do get this "time travel" technology, I'm going so far back in time that none of this crap will have happened.

[edit on 4-9-2004 by JohnEveryman]

Originally posted by JohnEveryman
Well said Cold Steel.

By the way, if we ever do get this "time travel" technology, I'm going so far back in time that none of this crap will have happened.

Nice try.
I hope you're not in Japan: a Tsunami is going to it there tomorrow...

Originally posted by k33l
didn't JT say: "Are you really surprised to find out that Iraq has nukes now or is that just BS to whip everyone up into accepting the next war? "

that's really weird.. :S

Remember: the story is written by the winners.

First of all:

I do not believe timetravel is possible.

But I'm that kind of person that, back in time, will not believe Einstein till he proved right.

So, if you give me solid arguments, I can change my mind.

Originally posted by melon1
One could assume that he meant that 2004 would have a Waco type event every month, but he doesn't actually say this.

Correct.

[edit on 2004/9/5 by francok]

Originally posted by Cold Steel
There's no sign of civil unrest? Imagine for a minute that GW cheats his way back into office.

Let's play it 2 ways:
1. Kerry is slighly ahead in polls at the end of October, then GW pulls out binLaden and put him in jail/grave. GW wins. Before the end of the year, we "discover" Osama was captured in March, but kept "waiting" till the end of October...
2. Bush is slighly ahead in polls at the end of October, then a big terrorist act (worst then 9/11) explode in USA. Kerry wins. Before the end of the year, we "discover" the terrorists were somehow linked to the Democratic Party...
Both scenarios will draw extremists from the losing party in "'WACO Style events'", IMO.

...Supposing again that Titor was real...
We had someone very similar to him in our past already. It was so simple, yet we made it so difficult. You might be familiar with this story...
Someone spoke up one day and said to love your neighbor the way you would want to be loved. Pray with all of your heart. And forgive. Before you know it, we had a new religion called Christianity and catholicism. This was never intended. He came to send a simple message. One that we interpreted and changed... look where that got us. Basically, don't make deductive judgements based on what you feel inside. Look outside the box. The answer is clear and simple. We as a people need to return to the basics, not hope that some machine can do it for us.

I am not here to support the candidates, John Titor, or Jesus Christ. I am here to offer my insight into the issue. After it is all said and done, we will still be here, one way or another. What you have to decide is where you stand. Will you be a sheep and follow what people tell you. Or will you think for yourself. The information is out there... all you have to do is dig.

Almost with you, will see the cutted stuff in a later 3ad.