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John Titor: Hoax

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posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 05:10 PM
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*sigh*

It takes all I have not to punch my screen.
Not litterally of course, my LCD is costly.

But seriously.

WHY DO PEOPLE BELIEVE THIS DRIVEL?

He doesn't have "predictions", he is stating "history" as in past tense.
In that sense, it should be right on.

But most of his "history" hasn't come to pass and some is way off.

I can't believe the amount of rationalizing that goes on for this kind of thing. The guys gets something wrong and there are dozens of you to explain what he "really meant" or how it is distorted from "his perspective".

Some of you talk like this is actual truth and fact and there is no dispute..

BASED ON INTERNET POSTINGS

My goodness this is so sad.

If he were real time traveller, and he really wanted or needed to tell us something, it wouldn't be vauge or incorrect postings on the internet and dontcha think he would have brought a better photo?

Some of this guys answers to "questions" seem a little juvenille, some thoughtless and others very thoughtful.
It is easy to see this is a person who had varied interest in the hoax he was perpetrating. Some times he was really interested in fooling the readers, sometimes not so much. (like he had a day job)

I think he was testing ideas for a book.
That's all.




posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 04:01 PM
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This question is related to Kano's first post about the laser light bending.

For bending ambient light - considering the source of light is probably a dome light or stationary light source - and that rather than concentrated or focused light (eg: a laser or leko) and the light present is a wash, how could we see ambient light bending? I guess my point is - in that picture where we see the laser (or fiber optic cable ) being bent - what indicates the ambient light not being bent or affected? How is washed or diffused light supposed to look when it is indeed bent? ( I love Back to the Future )
:p
My second question relates to Titor's timeline of events. If it is true he is from the future (I for one dont really believe it)- is it possible his timeline doesnt always equate to our current events because his timeline is one of infinite possibile realities? Small changes in his past or future could askew the outcome of his predictions.

It is interesting nonetheless concerning Titor's claims, although I for one dont give in to his fantastic stories. I just want to better understand the debunking of said picture and his predictions for future events. Wow this is an old thread


[edit on 18-8-2005 by bl0t]

[edit on 18-8-2005 by bl0t]



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 12:25 AM
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Ive been thinking about this for awhile now. I am neather for nor against, but I think you guys are missing a few points here. Even if this is complete bogus (considering statistics, the odds are billions to one that this story is completely untrue) it does however give food for thought...

A) We may understand the concepts behind the beam bending and the timewarping, but the APPLICATIONS of these concepts are currently 'outside our box' (or they would currently be in 'common' use). Therefore the actual USE of such devices MAY have characteristics or properties of which we are currently conceptualy unaware of.

B) What is a 'Waco-Type' event? The answer for each of us will be different. Whether that day is the anniversary of something that makes you angry (oklahoma city comes to mind), a bunch of whackos arming for resistance, or 'big brother' lying about what they did and why, the question remains because we each percieve it differently.

To JT a 'Waco-Type' event may be percieved as 'big brother clamping down on our civil liberties' (at the very least, its obvious that he views it from a different perspective than the 'main-stream' current veiw). And to this end, i think he would be completely right (children dying from police tazers, simple detentions escalating into deadly confrontations, spying on the populous in the name of counter terrorism, police this... police that... the list is endless). Which brings me to:

C) Civil War starting in 2004 or 2005. In retrospect (from 2036) the above can definately be defined as the start of the civil war (if there is one to be). Sometimes people do not realize what is going on around them until it is too late and they are deeply submerged in it. We may possibly be in the beginning stages of a civil war and not be aware of it. Personally, im beginning to dislike our u.s. govmnt very much, and more because of what they are doing to those they govern than because of what they are doing to other nations/peoples. That could very much be why it lasts so long - its not a conventional civil war like the last one, its the people vs the govmnt, no boundaries except in peoples homes and daily life.

He says that by around 2008 people will definately know there is a civil war going on - thats about 3 or 4 years of these subtle conflicts whos reality is hidden from the populous (Waco-Type Events), and that its still going on in 2015 when The Russians attack (taking advantage of instability in the usa), 6 years later.

D) No 911 etc... mentioned. In light of 'the grand scheme' of events (again, if true) why would he care about telling us its particulars? Or, to use his own vernacular, "Why would i tell you about Pearl Harbor, when it is the war itself that is important". I completely agree with the 'timetravellers code'. I would not tell anyone about 911. I would however warn them that the government is corrupt. Again, 911 can be possibly percieved as a 'Waco-Type' event. There are alot of people saying 911 was a setup, bombs placed in the building, structural analysis, airplanes overhead, the timeline involved, the pentagon damage etc...

I can easily see how uncovering the truth to shady events orchestrated by the united states government can lead to people being very very (yes, even extremely) angry. These 'future events' are entirely plausable given the current situation(s) both globally and internally within the usa.

E) Post Apocalyptic United States. That thought alone is deep and involving, and we could never 'forsee' before the fact just how that would pan out. One thing is certain tho, enough high technology would survive in various separate pockets (like universities?) that piecing it all back together would be a major priority. Also, there would be archives that the surviving technology would be able to access... Music, literature, history, science, you name it (as long as it wasnt located in a major city).

And whos to say that some post apocalyptic usa science/tech center didnt survive the war with help from their alien/ebe contacts? And that those same groups cant go on to develope timetravel devices? Isnt that what the aliens are supposedly using around us currently anyways?

Which brings me to one last point before i go for my afternoon workout.

Who cares if this story is true or not. Its not the validity of the story that counts but the possible implications of its information (especially if its true) - isnt that what 'prophecy' is all about?



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 07:47 PM
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If and only if one buys Titor...

The there's an angle you folks may or may not choose to debate a bit...

Why Titors preditions could "slip" is easy - point perspective within a particular slice of the multi-verse.

Whether n10, n11,n(x), n(infinity) doesn't matter - beside the point.

How could he know the future beyond generalization for any given reality he was dropped into?

He could never be sure exactly which past he landed in so how could he know anything specific about its' particular future. Simple - he couldn't, this reality (our reality) hasn't played out yet.

So consider the Waco a month thing might not occur in this reality. Or may not happen at the stated rate or at Waco severity. Plenty 'nuff bad stuff happening everywhere anyway.

Not to mention the fabled 2%plus/minus event certainty variable. Geez there's a total "get out of jail free card" if I ever heard one.

I haven't mentioned the "Butterfly effect" and its' complications - Oops there - Just did - future's changed. Think about it.

But cheer up - I've been following Titor events for years and I have yet to hear a truly cogent argument to irrefutabley disprove any single element of the saga - no matter what the loudest of the "anti" cognoscente say or scream - some folks get way too wound up about this stuff - total info rage.

I can not say anything in Titors statements are incorrect yet - the man told no lies - I don't care about the laser photo one bit - big yawn - produced ipso facto and no doubt a fake.

I do take seriously the trends he predicted and they are grave and ostensibly occurring right McNow.

The physics stuff is uncanny - pretty much comin' down like he stated.

If it's true at all the guy had a wicked dry sense of humour - "No arm, no legger, that's a no brainer". Gives me the willies thinkin' 'bout that and Iraq and beheadings.

Now on to his "organized armed conflict" - this one is easy to account for - think info warfare - think the net, blogs, terror web sites - TV - Movies, all freakin' media - if this isn't armed organized conflict what is? It's a veritable firestorm of data flyin' around. Tons of rage - on demand 24/7 wideband baby. That battle is for the digital highground - and our minds. Information is the real "super weapon" - ideology kills - read or watch the news. Guns take a backseat - for now.

The "trading freedom for security" stuff - raids in 27 states cleaning up gangs, Judith Miller, Patriot act - close enough for me. America and Britain are police states and my country Canada isn't too far behind.

All the Middle-East stuff seems about ready to go ka-boom too.

America is so far in Chinese debt that western destabilization could be caused by Walmart having a bad week - my pick is energy as a source for the wheels comin' off the economy - all those folks with expensive real estate and debt are in for a world of hurt.

For me there's still lots of room for Titor lore yet. I don't yet not buy it.



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 12:59 AM
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At this point, All it would take is a mandated national id card with RFID chip to start a war.

In the end, nothing really matters. All the lights will burn out, and the universe will continue to live on in complete darkness for all eternity. So go find something a little more worthwhile to live your life for.



[edit on 25-8-2005 by senseless04]



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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Why didn't Titor mention 9-11?
Because he's hoax.
9-11 is the same as the Pearl Harbor attack: a hit on our blind side that caused a huge tragedy which we remember to this day.
We weren't expecting 9-11 and America wasn't expecting an attack on Pearl Harbor.
I'm pretty sure if Titor was from the future he would remember this "punch in the face".
Titor might have been trying to warn us.
He isn't from the future, but maybe, just maybe, he had some information we don't have, so he was trying to warn us and he was trying to get us to head into another direction.



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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"It is the tale of John Titor, a self-proclaimed time traveler from the year 2036.

Okay, it sounds crazy. It's not crazy, though...it's simply a hoax. It's a compelling hoax, so I decided to write my take on it. After some initial 'what if' excitement about it, the reality set in that this wasn't what it appeared to be. In this piece, I hope to prove relatively clearly that his claims are false both in theory and in fact. He seemed to know enough about physics to pass amongst laymen, but unfortunately he skipped philosophy and economics while he was reading all those physics books. Since this story just won't seem to die and there is evidence that the same perpetrator is now claiming to be an alien on various boards across the web, I felt it was worth sitting down and analyzing."
Tackling John Titor, Time Traveler

The person writing this validates the above paragraph very well. Enjoy!

[edit on 31-8-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

"It is the tale of John Titor, a self-proclaimed time traveler from the year 2036.

Okay, it sounds crazy. It's not crazy, though...it's simply a hoax. It's a compelling hoax, so I decided to write my take on it. After some initial 'what if' excitement about it, the reality set in that this wasn't what it appeared to be. In this piece, I hope to prove relatively clearly that his claims are false both in theory and in fact. He seemed to know enough about physics to pass amongst laymen, but unfortunately he skipped philosophy and economics while he was reading all those physics books. Since this story just won't seem to die and there is evidence that the same perpetrator is now claiming to be an alien on various boards across the web, I felt it was worth sitting down and analyzing."
Tackling John Titor, Time Traveler

The person writing this validates the above paragraph very well. Enjoy!

[edit on 31-8-2005 by saint4God]

I would reply to that link to somewhat like this.......
Have you considered your take on Economics of the future is wrong, since you have no time machine?
Then you go on about paradoxes of time travel, like have you done that before, do you have a time machine.
You have good theory but nothing to back them up with, No facts at all.

Then it goes on that John Titor is posing as an alien? But there is no evidence of that. Zero...Zilch
Just another fruitless attempt to debunk Titor lol.

For those who ask? Why didn't Titor mention 9-11? well read Titors post and you will find out why...duhh




posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by XPhiles
I would reply to that link to somewhat like this.......
Have you considered your take on Economics of the future is wrong, since you have no time machine?
Then you go on about paradoxes of time travel, like have you done that before, do you have a time machine.
You have good theory but nothing to back them up with, No facts at all.


I believe the originator was going by logic, reasoning and common sense, not by facts. As you've put in question form, no-one knows the future. His contention is that John Titor doesn't either.


Originally posted by XPhiles
Then it goes on that John Titor is posing as an alien? But there is no evidence of that. Zero...Zilch


Actually there was a link but it's broken. The anomolies.net mods were said to have done the investigation. I'm not as Net savvy as Edward:



...so I don't know how to get to the information he's referring to without spending weeks sifting through anomolies.net


Originally posted by XPhiles
Just another fruitless attempt to debunk Titor lol.


I thought it was fruitful enough to send the ball back into the pro-Titor court. Anyone have a refuting argument?


Originally posted by XPhiles
For those who ask? Why didn't Titor mention 9-11? well read Titors post and you will find out why...duhh



Let's do the time-warp again!



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 01:07 PM
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I believe the originator was going by logic, reasoning and common sense, not by facts. As you've put in question form, no-one knows the future. His contention is that John Titor doesn't either.


Ah... but it say's fact.. Here, I will highlight it in red lol..
It doesn't matter what you or I believe at this moment. To tell the truth I hope the Titor thing is a hoax, if not 3 billion people can kiss their A$$ goodbye in 2015.


Okay, it sounds crazy. It's not crazy, though...it's simply a hoax. It's a compelling hoax, so I decided to write my take on it. After some initial 'what if' excitement about it, the reality set in that this wasn't what it appeared to be. In this piece, I hope to prove relatively clearly that his claims are false both in theory and in [size=+2]fact.


[size=+1]anomolies.net has a money offer to prove John Titor is a Hoax.....
If I could.... I would cash in.





[edit on 1-9-2005 by XPhiles]

[edit on 1-9-2005 by XPhiles]



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by XPhiles
Ah... but it say's fact.. Here, I will highlight it in red lol..


Okay, it sounds crazy. It's not crazy, though...it's simply a hoax. It's a compelling hoax, so I decided to write my take on it. After some initial 'what if' excitement about it, the reality set in that this wasn't what it appeared to be. In this piece, I hope to prove relatively clearly that his claims are false both in theory and in [size=+2]fact.


It still doesn't change my belief that the original was speaking on logic and rational and not fact (like he claims).


Originally posted by XPhiles
It doesn't matter what you or I believe at this moment. To tell the truth I hope their Titor thing is a hoax, if not 3 billion people can kiss the A$$ goodbye in 2015.


I'm looking at my job being eliminated by the end of the year. I have more pressing concerns right now that a decade from now. Our individual 'world' may end today, we don't know. I think it's especially important then to explore what happens the day after our last instead of worrying about death.


Originally posted by XPhiles
[size=+1]anomolies.net has a money offer to prove John Titor is a Hoax.....
If I could.... I would cash in.


[size=+2]Wohoo! Fun with Fonts!

Go for it dude! I'll support ya any way I could without asking for a cent. I'm not going to spend any more of my time on it though, looks like enough people have wasted theirs already on both sides of the issue. Funny thing about time, once you spend it, there's no refunds.

[edit on 1-9-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Go for it dude! I'll support ya any way I could without asking for a cent. I'm not going to spend any more of my time on it though, looks like enough people have wasted theirs already on both sides of the issue. Funny thing about time, once you spend it, there's no refunds.

[edit on 1-9-2005 by saint4God]


The thing about our time is that most of it is wasted time. Especially like this post " John Titor: Hoax"
No where in this post proves Titor is a hoax....If there was I would cash in on it.

Thanks for wasting my time here.



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 01:24 AM
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I just heard about and finishd reviewing the Titor history yesterday. I find it interesting that, after reviewing the threads on this site for the past several months, most of the energy expended by members goes to either support or debunk whatever has been posted. Shall we take it a little bit deeper?

Personally, I appreciate the fact that the story of JT has served a useful purpose by causing many people to focus on our federal govt's national and foreign policy since the vote was stopped and Bush was (s)elected by the Supreme Court. At 44 I've witnessed the violence of Vietnam on the nightly news, watched Nixon tossed out, Carter broker peace between Egypt and Israel, Reagan prevent the release of the hostages in Iran and orchestrate their release for the day of his innauguration (with no blow-back), the murder of several elected leaders in Central America who refused US orders, arms for Contras, CIA drug sales for covert op's, etc., etc. Recently, Pat Robertson openly called for the assassination of the democratically elected president of Venezuela without consequence. So much for fighting terrorism.

I guess my point is that the crap that the neocons have been pulling since the Bushies stole office is beyond the pale. People are waking up to the truth - finally! The JT story gives people pause. Is it possible that he is a time traveler? Beyond the novelty of it, who gives a rip? Is it possible that we could enter a second civil war? Is it possible that we could get nuked? Now that's some heavy caca. And with what's been taking place in the dismantling of the little democracy we had left when Bush came in it's not only possible it's very, very probable. This is because Americans - when they wake up - will not be pleased to discovery that their freedoms were taken away by some spoiled rich a--holes who want a rifle stuck up in anyone who dissents from their one dimensional, elitist, whiner take all view point. So get ready mo fo's, cause I think that the New Yorkers are gonna be ready to brawl and soon the way things are going. Then it's a chain reaction of the worst kind. But who knows, maybe it's necessary.

I'm a civil rights lawyer and let me tell you, the little people are taking it in the _ss and not just in the delta. We have more people in prison in this country on drug offenses that Europe has on all offenses combined. And they have a heck of a lot more people than we do. People have limits. Get involved politically now to fight these people or get ready to rumble when the people's limits are exceeded. Take action now before it's too late, if it's not already.

Have a nice day.



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 08:59 AM
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Right on seattlelaw!! I enjoyed that post. :-)



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 09:52 AM
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[my $.02]

Titor threads generally boil down to the "time-traveler" VS "kid-in-basement" argument, which ends up being about as useless as a bunch of Star Wars fans waiting in line for a movie debating whether or not the Millenium Falcon can really warp to light speed. We all understand the physics of it is impossible... but either way, we all still wind up watching the movie together, no?

Besides, the laws of physics become irrelevant once you begin to appreciate what it is the story is trying to say. And hoax or not, if *Titor* changes the way you think about or look at things, then that's probably a good thing in the long run.

And who knows, maybe one day there will actually be spacecraft that can travel faster than light.



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 12:08 PM
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I'm not going to go back and read up on the whole John Titor matter, but I'm going to try to put this time thing into a rational perspective. The future hasn't happened yet. The past is gone. There is only one me. I was conceived, born, and have lived for more than 56 years. I look at my body and I can see the effects of my experience in the scars, creases and other effects we attribut to time, but actually take place in the course of time. When I die, those parts of my body that are not preserved will decay and what is left will still be me.

Time is a construct imposed on the series of events we perceive to give them meaning. Clocks do not measure time, they move and we calibrate that movement into socially constructed intervals. That is time.

[edit on 2005/9/30 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 04:17 PM
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Truly, time is an illusion. Ask yourself when the future has ever arrived? All there is and all there ever was is NOW. Our concetualization we call time does serve a useful function. It allows us to avoid repeating harmful events. Fire burns, e.g. It allows us to plan for "future" events.



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by seattlelaw
Truly, time is an illusion. Ask yourself when the future has ever arrived?


Here it comes....ready? Doh! You missed it. Now it's the past...



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 09:25 AM
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I'm not saying John "Tito" as I have listed here is the same guy, rather perhaps our John Titor was a fan/student of his works perhaps (and explains the name selected):

eserver.org...

By the way, if I were to be a hoaxer, I'd used the name Douglas Smada. (Smada backwards is Adams 'cause I'd be "Mostly Harmless")



Tito has worn many hats: journalist, educator (among others at: San Francisco State; John Kennedy Freedom School in Berlin; and since 1978 the Graduate Center and Queens College of the City University of New York), author (of such works as The Great Fear in Latin America; The Premature Antifascists; the only authorized biography of Jean-Paul Sarte, Hated Conscience of His Century Volume I, which Sartre considered a continuation of his own autobiography), raconteur, activist and father.


I've not read any of these books, but sounds like great source material for a raconteur, activist, educated, journalistic John Titor time traveller.



If ever the personal were political and the political were personal, they are in this life.


From reading the time-traveller's tales, if ever there were a motive, this would be it.



There is no free education in this country, it's a free enterprise education, the rich get well-educated and go on to control.


"Tito's" resentment for education, wealth and control sounds a lot like Titor's, does it not? Not saying it's unjustified, just that they're similar.



Somehow or other the arrangement in the community has to be restricted to the community to the point that people feel they have an influence over the decisions that effect their lives.


Uh huh, sound familiar folks? Like Titor's Florida community.



How do you democratize a movement that is involved in the seizure of power where, by definition, power corrupts?


By war blasting central governments. By rebels fighting for small communities. By demonstrating the futility of power in a time-travelling post-apocalyptic scenario perhaps?

Just a thought...

[edit on 18-10-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 09:34 AM
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The science has been debunked by a professor of physics at Duke University. Should anyone care to challenge his claims, kindly enlighten us with your credentials to do so.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm not sure which poster put this in another thread, but after I read it, it was 100% sure its a haox as far as I'm concerened.

communities.anomalies.net...

The bottom line ;
Titor claimed to have two devices in a suitcase. The suitcase would have to hold 2 item, each weighing a billion metric tons.

An amusing computation: Suppose r_s = 1 fm (somewhat smaller than "an
> electron"). Then m_BH = r_s*c^2/G, right? Plug 'n' chug. On my
> calculator, 10^-15 * 9x10^16/6.67x10^-11 \approx 10^12 kg. Let's see,
> that would be, um, a billion metric tons, the mass of a cube of water
> 1000 meters to the side (as 1000^3 = 10^9 and water conveniently
> masses a metric ton, 10^3 kg per cubic meter. How come nobody in your
> group actually did these simple computations?
>
> His suitcase contains TWO of these? He carried this suitcase on a 67
> Chevy? Man, they must put a hell of a suspension in those babies...




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