Conversation with a Scramjet (The Truth about UFOs/Aliens)

Here is the situation from what I see:

The gov't is powerless. In fact that is why they are silent. China is silent on the UFO thing now too because they realize what's going on. They are just trying to hold onto every last gasp of power they will ever have! If the gov't loses total power there will be anarchy and we don't want that too happen. So lets actually pray that they hold onto power and keep the system stumbling along till whatever happens eventually comes to pass.

Now onto "the aliens." The aliens realize that our dna has potential. In fact our own human brains could be the most complex thing in the universe for light years around us! This is the whole thing that I'm beginning to understand. Michio Kaku and other scientists have stated on record that the most likely form of "contact" would be a scenario like 2001: A Space Odyseey. This is what will happen. Except instead of monoliths which have a beacon, they are gradually waking us up via some very well documented incidents that have been going on all over the planet for decades and possibly since the dawn of man. Bud Hopkins and David Jacobs are probably correct on their abduction research. They are combining our DNA with theirs. Take this as a sign as respect from a superior species. They have deemed us as "worthy" if you will. We should all relax now. Try not to go bananas.

What will happen is they will install a new system that will work for a Type 1 civilization (since we're unable to do it on our own which i suspect is normal for emerging Type 0's). Once we are a stable Type 1 they will leave the planet in our care and it will be modified humans that assume control. They will forge a "new mankind" that is finally free of the shackles of money and super individuality. They will hone their intelligence and build their own UFOs (this explains why you see different kind of UFOs). They will learn to make themselves invisible. They will learn the true science. Once our altered selves emerge to Type 2 status, then we will be on the level of "the aliens like the greys." If I may speculate. I would say these Type 2 civilizations work for Type 3 aliens. The UFO is a planetary craft for exploring a solar system. This is why their technology seems soo radical to us. Because it is! These Type 2 beings would have contact with Type 3 beings. It is the Type 3 beings that have the most fundamentally radical technology. They are the ones who are in control of the galaxy. They are the ones who transport the UFO fleet to a solar system so that the lesser Type 2's can begin their programs on emerging Type 0's like us. I speculate they live in the central part of the galaxy (central command organized like the military) and they use the super masssive blackhole for energy. Perhaps even to transport the lesser Type 2's to our star system.

Anyone have a better idea?

[/alien&ufo forum]

reply to post by Scramjet76




Still locked into the old heirarchical paradigm, I see: Type 0 evolves to Type 2 which serves Type 3, etc...


You Do realize that as long as a civilization, any civilization, operates under the strictures of a heirarchical model, that civilization is doomed to intercine conflicts (wars), which will eventually, ultimately, destroy the civilaztion.

And where would that leave us?

Howling at the Moon and beating each other over the head with rocks and bones!



In other words, Right Where We Are Now.

reply to post by Bhadhidar

heirarchical model,

Well just look to nature my friend. What do you see when you see an insect getting eaten by a mouse who gets killed by snake that dies at the hand of a hawk? You don't think nature is heirarchical?

Please dude...

Originally posted by Scramjet76
reply to post by Bhadhidar

 

heirarchical model,

Well just look to nature my friend. What do you see when you see an insect getting eaten by a mouse who gets killed by snake that dies at the hand of a hawk? You don't think nature is heirarchical?

Please dude...

Yes but we are supposed to have the "higher brains" we should be past that and have a completely better way of doing things.

reply to post by Scramjet76


That might be what you see when you look at life On Earth!


But why would you project terrestrial character foibles onto a species that is (or might be) completely ALIEN to the Earth?

We have no way of knowing how a truly alien species might think or act; to expect It/Them to honor, or even recognize the behavioral norms of our one tiny planet is illogical at best, and suicidal at worst!

We do not even know what an alien might look like at this point. How can we even begin to assume what an alien society/culture might believe ?

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Here is the situation from what I see:

The gov't is powerless. In fact that is why they are silent. China is silent on the UFO thing now too because they realize what's going on.
Now onto "the aliens." . Michio Kaku and other scientists have stated on record that the most likely form of "contact" would be a scenario like 2001: A Space Odyseey. This is what will happen. Except instead of monoliths which have a beacon, they are gradually waking us up via some very well documented incidents that have been going on all over the planet for decades and possibly since the dawn of man. Anyone have a better idea?

Better than an idea. The actual version of the 2001 monolith is the Mars moon Phobos. It is telling us all we need to know (at present) about ETs. Check out the new article on Sightings, The Trouble with Phobos.

reply to post by Char-Lee

Yes but we are supposed to have the "higher brains" we should be past that and have a completely better way of doing things.

Sorry but what have you done for the galaxy lately? These beings have been doing this stuff for eons. I'd guess they probably know what they're doing by now.

I'm guessing that is one of their primary functions... they are stewards over the galaxy and the circle of life. Once a Type 1 civilization makes itself into a Type 2, then they are no longer bound by needing a "home planet." This is when the planet is vacated and new species are allowed to flourish. The process begins again as nature always comes up with a natural "dominant." Once the dominant species approaches Type 1 (Nukes, internet, first steps into space) the process repeats itself. The emerging Type 1 civilization is contacted, DNA is harvested and the species is upgraded to being worthy of the "galactic civilization."

Sorry I know it sucks. But next time remember that fly. His life is only 20 days and he doesn't understand anything at all. We should feel lucky that are brains are big enough to understand the role we play in all this. And obviously these beings aren't here to hurt us or they would have squashed us a long time ago. They are here to help us, but not till we are adapted to their system.

I could be wrong. But I'm seriously thinking this is very probable given the data. I realize it sounds like a bad sci-fi movie and too horrible to be true. And I wouldn't have posted this even a few months ago. But I've been thinking alot lately and trying to put all the pieces together.

The key is the 2 best abduction researchers: Bud Hopkins & David Jacobs. They've been researching it for a long time.

Once Michio Kaku started explaining the concept of Type 0, 1, 2, and 3 civilizations, I applied that framework to the abduction phenomenon. Suddenly UFOs as interplanetary objects but not inter-stellar objects made sense. They are dependant on eachother. They are a true galactic family. The Type 2's need the Type 3's help to get around the galaxy. The Type 3's need the Type 2's to do tasks because I hardly doubt they want to be bothered by some ant (like a human). Instead they have organized themselves in the most logical fashion in a great system that basically "harvests intelligent life."

reply to post by Bhadhidar

But why would you project terrestrial character foibles onto a species that is (or might be) completely ALIEN to the Earth?

Because man, it is the example we have to go on. Don't forget that we are a very intelligent species. Look at the advancements we've made. None of these evolutionary advantages really make alot of sense. Understanding advanced physics and math is no evolutionary advantage to killing a deer with a spear. The only reason we have these advantages is because in some sense we have always been in an "arms race" with eachother. Only through eachother have we achieved such big brains and the ability to understand anything at all! That is the key.

Now that we are approaching Type 1 we are getting into an area that is simply dangerous. Can you imagine invisible terrorists with nukes? Eventually this "evolutionary arms race" is a deadend. The aliens know this. It's normal behavior for Type 0's emerging to Type 1 and this is why they exist. This is their purpose.

Back to heirarchy we see it copied over and over in nature. There's no reason for us or the aliens to assume they know more than "mother nature." We see heirarchy on ATS. We see heirarchy in businesses and schools. We see it in institutions like the government and military. We see it in nature with other creatures. And we see it in the universe. Quark>>Atom>>>Molecule>>>Cell>>>Tissue>>>Organ......

Do you want more examples?

Some really good thought and theories Scramjet...

Originally posted by Scramjet76
reply to post by Bhadhidar

 

But why would you project terrestrial character foibles onto a species that is (or might be) completely ALIEN to the Earth?

Because man, it is the example we have to go on. Don't forget that we are a very intelligent species. Look at the advancements we've made. None of these evolutionary advantages really make alot of sense. Understanding advanced physics and math is no evolutionary advantage to killing a deer with a spear. The only reason we have these advantages is because in some sense we have always been in an "arms race" with eachother. Only through eachother have we achieved such big brains and the ability to understand anything at all! That is the key.

Now that we are approaching Type 1 we are getting into an area that is simply dangerous. Can you imagine invisible terrorists with nukes? Eventually this "evolutionary arms race" is a deadend. The aliens know this. It's normal behavior for Type 0's emerging to Type 1 and this is why they exist. This is their purpose.

Back to heirarchy we see it copied over and over in nature. There's no reason for us or the aliens to assume they know more than "mother nature." We see heirarchy on ATS. We see heirarchy in businesses and schools. We see it in institutions like the government and military. We see it in nature with other creatures. And we see it in the universe. Quark>>Atom>>>Molecule>>>Cell>>>Tissue>>>Organ......

Do you want more examples?

I have to admit you really do seem like you have thought this through. I'm impressed! I hope you're right. That seems like such a better scenario than getting eaten by Lizard men.. or whatever disturbing theory that is out there.

reply to post by IzzycomesinPeace


Thank you.

It hit me the other day. It not only explains UFOs/Aliens, but also tells us why they are here.

Basically it explains everything using Infinite Hierarchy of Beings Theory

It ties everything from what the physicists hypothesize to the religious types who believe in "intelligent design." In fact our own universe I suspect came from a larger universe (hypotheisized in many scientific circles) and could in fact come from a "Type 4 civilzation." Type 4 would basically be "God" because it comes from another universe that simply has more "energy" in it, making it possible for Type 4's to accomplish this. Everything has order this way. Perhaps "Type 3 aliens" can actually have a basic dialoge with "God."

The fascinating mind blowing thing is it makes perfect sense. This is why Type 3 or 4 beings don't contact us directly. This is why they don't "interfere" with "worldly affairs." If you see a couple of ants bullying and killing a beetle are you going to "save the beetle" and stops those "evil ants?" No. It might be a very small footnote from your day but that's it at best! The ants and beetles are so far beneath you in terms of complixity of an organism. There is no dialouge to be had and thus to most people ants hardly matter. Now a dog is a more complex organism. That is a multi-cellular organism that is much "closer " to us humans than ants. And consequently you see many people have dogs as pets but not ants. Dogs can actually do something for us. They can fetch your slippers or ward off intruders.

Using that logic we see why the Type 3's use the Type 2's to do this (lesser) work. In fact as radical as these "Type 2 aliens" seem, the distance between them and the Type 3's could be so severe.... that the Type 2's are nearly as "mystified" with the Type 3 beings as we are with UFOs/Type2's.

There is one consequence from this fundamental understanding & englightenment...........

Childhood's End

Shhhh...............

reply to post by Scramjet76


Lol... I'm trying to figure out how its taking us so long to figure out how to live in a structured civilization that works together in order to maintain life....When Bees figured this out pretty much at the beginning. I thought humans were supposed to be the evolved intelligent species on this planet? Bees are type 1 already guys...we better step up our game so we can get off this planet.

So what would you say occurs at death?

It's nice that everything makes sense to you, but there's no way to know for sure while still alive. If any kind of disclosure event were to take place, there would be no explanation of type 0, type 1 etc. civilizations.

Man, your posts are pretty deep; but SO EASY TO UNDERSTAND and it makes a good bit of sense! Everyone of these new-age type people say to get out of this hierarchical mindset but what if that mindset is the correct way to do things? We see this in EVERYTHING....from the littlest elements of nature to the life-cycle of the universe.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
If you see a couple of ants bullying and killing a beetle are you going to "save the beetle" and stops those "evil ants?" No. It might be a very small footnote from your day but that's it at best! The ants and beetles are so far beneath you in terms of complixity of an organism.

I must be an anomaly, since ive rescued beetles from ants, flys from spider webs as well as fed spiders and directed ants to food... hell ive even talked to em, although i dont expect anything back.. heck i say sorry to snails I dont see and accidentally stand on while walking around outside at night... the least i can do for ending its existence so abruptly.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Dogs can actually do something for us.

Your understanding of the natural world and the 'jobs' each life form tends to play is rather limited... ants and other similar simple creatures have an extremely useful purpose for us. You'd notice if they suddenly went missing. There isnt really any sort of natural heirachy in reality, everything sits as equal in its own defining way with everything else life is life, that is all that matters in my opinion. Have you ever seen the complexity of a single celled organism... they arent sacks of fluid with a string of DNA floating in the middle, they are just as complex as you are with dozens of organelles and given our ever growing understanding of what constitutes 'intelligence' the old arguments of 'This thing is unintelligent therefore of no purpose while this thing has intelligence and does' is finally being thrown aside, the water is truly muddy at last.

I find it odd you make comments that type 2's are needed since a type 3 wouldn't (by your opinion) be bothered to deign even interact with a type 0... yet as a type 0 myself, I find it enjoyable to interact with the lower life forms regardless of how 'primitive', (whatever the hell thats supposed to mean when comparing an ant (whos mind is as alien to us as these type 2's are supposed to be to ours) to a human)... Would a type 3 retain a similar outlook?, i think yes... or is this some aspect that has to be shed to reach these higher levels. If so... i think ill remain a type 0 thank you very much, I like my empathy for all things and super individuality (and respect for others individuality).

If a type 0 can have an interest to interact with a creature supposedly as far down the ladder as these type 3's are to us, then why wouldnt a type 3 find enjoyment or satisfaction from interacting with a type 0 directly, or maybe they do and its like me with the spider... I compliment it on its web, but I understand it wasnt listening, or at least I think it wasn't since despite my supposed superiority over it... i can never be sure it didnt say 'Thank you' in return.

All your argument really comes down to is, those with the better tech are the next in the universal command... I can teach an ape to use a typewriter... does that automatically make that ape better than the one that doesn't? This Civilization Type millarcky is like IQ... doesnt really mean much at all really.

I also find your use of heirarchy rather bizarre

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Back to heirarchy we see it copied over and over in nature. There's no reason for us or the aliens to assume they know more than "mother nature." We see heirarchy on ATS. We see heirarchy in businesses and schools. We see it in institutions like the government and military. We see it in nature with other creatures. And we see it in the universe. Quark>>Atom>>>Molecule>>>Cell>>>Tissue>>>Organ......

You final example is just wrong really... since the supposed higher things in the hierarchy are wholly dependent on those bellow... an Organ isnt better than a Quark... the Organ is Quarks, which is not the same as what your saying with the Civilization Type system which is those lower only have purpose for those higher and can only be raised to such levels by others already there. What hierarchy exists in ATS? (and might I ask where do you think you reside within it?)... mods are just users like everyone else they just help police the system, without users the mods have no purpose and the site wouldn't exist, the site creators are themselves in the exact same position... none is more superior or better than the other.

Not sure where I was going with this post... I just got rather flustered at you belittling Ants, and other 'primitive' (no such thing) life...

reply to post by BigfootNZ

There isnt really any sort of natural heirachy in reality, everything sits as equal in its own defining way with everything else life is life, that is all that matters in my opinion.

Equal huh? You consider yourself equal to a fly? yeah ok. Sure most people feel the same way.

Have you ever seen the complexity of a single celled organism... they arent sacks of fluid with a string of DNA floating in the middle, they are just as complex as you are with dozens of organelles

Yeah sure. A single celled organism is as complex as a human being.

and given our ever growing understanding of what constitutes 'intelligence'

Look man the last time I checked an ant hasnt build an international space station. I believe that was made by humans. So just drop it.... I realize that all other organisms on this planet are valuable and important and in fact that is central to my argument. I also realize that they are very complex. But not as complex as a human no.

Ok?

I find it odd you make comments that type 2's are needed since a type 3 wouldn't (by your opinion) be bothered to deign even interact with a type 0... yet as a type 0 myself, I find it enjoyable to interact with the lower life forms regardless of how 'primitive', (whatever the hell thats supposed to mean when comparing an ant (whos mind is as alien to us as these type 2's are supposed to be to ours) to a human)... Would a type 3 retain a similar outlook?

I said it was a very solid theory. Never said I could prove it. Let me give you a scenario for the sake of brainstorming....

Perhaps the Type 3 beings actually live in the supermassive blackhole. They might be able to get here but only in spirit and not in physical form. We would probably end up worshiping it and thinking its God. Type 2's are closer to us on an evolutionary/cosomological scale. Our minds are able to make the connection that the UFO implies. A UFO sighting does what for a human mind? Makes us believe in the "possibility" that there are "others" who have "better air&space craft." That is how they are even able to make the connection!! Because we have our own air and space craft for a reference point. So the Type 2's might be better suited for "waking us up."

As for you feeling spited by greater creatures I'm not sure I can help you there. However, you might be right in that the Type 3's do have some interest in us. And that is why they send the best man for the job "Type 2's." Because yes the Type 3 does want to meet us. But on it's terms. If you can't accept that then I'm afraid the problem may just be your ego.

To summarize. My observations indicate that I see more people bending down to pet dogs than pet ants. I'm not sure how much more fundamental and basic I can get in describing this to you.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

Yes but we are supposed to have the "higher brains" we should be past that and have a completely better way of doing things.

Sorry but what have you done for the galaxy lately? These beings have been doing this stuff for eons. I'd guess they probably know what they're doing by now.

I'm guessing that is one of their primary functions... they are stewards over the galaxy and the circle of life. Once a Type 1 civilization makes itself into a Type 2, then they are no longer bound by needing a "home planet." This is when the planet is vacated and new species are allowed to flourish. The process begins again as nature always comes up with a natural "dominant." Once the dominant species approaches Type 1 (Nukes, internet, first steps into space) the process repeats itself. The emerging Type 1 civilization is contacted, DNA is harvested and the species is upgraded to being worthy of the "galactic civilization."

Sorry I know it sucks. But next time remember that fly. His life is only 20 days and he doesn't understand anything at all. We should feel lucky that are brains are big enough to understand the role we play in all this. And obviously these beings aren't here to hurt us or they would have squashed us a long time ago. They are here to help us, but not till we are adapted to their system.

I could be wrong. But I'm seriously thinking this is very probable given the data. I realize it sounds like a bad sci-fi movie and too horrible to be true. And I wouldn't have posted this even a few months ago. But I've been thinking alot lately and trying to put all the pieces together.

The key is the 2 best abduction researchers: Bud Hopkins & David Jacobs. They've been researching it for a long time.

Once Michio Kaku started explaining the concept of Type 0, 1, 2, and 3 civilizations, I applied that framework to the abduction phenomenon. Suddenly UFOs as interplanetary objects but not inter-stellar objects made sense. They are dependant on eachother. They are a true galactic family. The Type 2's need the Type 3's help to get around the galaxy. The Type 3's need the Type 2's to do tasks because I hardly doubt they want to be bothered by some ant (like a human). Instead they have organized themselves in the most logical fashion in a great system that basically "harvests intelligent life."

WOW and you said

"That might be what you see when you look at life On Earth!
But why would you project terrestrial character foibles onto a species that is (or might be) completely ALIEN to the Earth?
We have no way of knowing how a truly alien species might think or act; to expect It/Them to honor, or even recognize the behavioral norms of our one tiny planet is illogical at best, and suicidal at worst!
We do not even know what an alien might look like at this point. How can we even begin to assume what an alien society/culture might believe ? "
signature:
Space: It's Closer Than You Think!

I think you are doing just that.

There is only one way to judge things and that's by our limited view point.
I often think as we feel so intelligent and superior, that we may find one day that we "the builders of space stations" are the stupid ones, the ones who destroy their own environment instead of living simply like an "ant' or "fly'.
WE decide whats smart! we could have it all backward.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Anyone have a better idea?

If our stealthy visitors wanted to really change things, they'd do it quick and dirty. They wouldn't have to hide in the shadows to make things happen. You don't have to be subtle when you have all the power.

Instead, the "aliens" seem to be interested in keeping this going as smoothly as possible, and not interfering in any way that would create a large shift all at once. That tends to suggest that they are time travelers. A time traveler would be very interested in doing everything to keep the timeline intact, so they don't end up destroying much of the world they know in the future. Likewise, if a government understood that time travel can make radical changes to current reality, they'd also want to keep it all as quiet and peaceful as possible. They might even subtly encourage the idea that "aliens" are involved, rather than time travelers, which is something potentially much more dangerous.

reply to post by Blue Shift

Instead, the "aliens" seem to be interested in keeping this going as smoothly as possible, and not interfering in any way that would create a large shift all at once. That tends to suggest that they are time travelers. A time traveler would be very interested in doing everything to keep the timeline intact, so they don't end up destroying much of the world they know in the future. Likewise, if a government understood that time travel can make radical changes to current reality, they'd also want to keep it all as quiet and peaceful as possible. They might even subtly encourage the idea that "aliens" are involved, rather than time travelers, which is something potentially much more dangerous.

Time Travel is a possibility for why these beings are here. But it doesn't fit the observations. For what purpose? I have provided a reason for the Type 2's being here and making contact. You don't have to tiptoe around to be considered a time traveller. Expanding our consciousness is a delicate proceedure. If they really wanted to "tiptoe" around then why do they seem to be trying to get our attention? Why fly over Phoenix AZ for all to see? All this can be explained in terms of aliens. Radar did not pick the object up, but people saw something they claim wasn't flares or airplanes. Science can explain this. The ship "absorbed" the radar pulses. But it turned off it's cloaking shields. The signs don't point to time travelers "tiptoeing" around. The signs point to aliens trying to snap us out of our egotistical daze.... and awaken us to a galactic civilization that has been around for a very very long time I suspect.

This is why all abduction accounts portray the aliens as all business. Because they are. They don't care if you're a football player or lawyer. They don't care if your Putin or Obama. They just care that we are slowly becoming freakishly smart enough that we may soon be able to detect them. Still, compared to a Type 3 civilization, we are probably just raw material. That is why they use the Type 2's to convert us to something useful.