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Die Glocke "The Bell"

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posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by Mactire
The anti-gravity coincides with a theory I read about that talked about UFO's using gravity to fly. Apparently there are a number of plates on the bottom of the "saucer", and when you point these plates in a certain direction, the Saucer essentially falls in that direction (the Stronger the Gravitational Pull, the faster the saucer flies). This would explain why UFO's are able to change direction at such a high rate of speed.
There was also a theory that pointing these plates towards one another, and cranking the power, might open some sort of portal. Who knows? I always found it an interesting theory though. Allegedly this has been recreated in a lab, (small scale) which probably means its well beyond small scale, and is in use by the military now.


That kind of sounds a little similar to the Casimir effect in quantum field theory:

en.wikipedia.org...

It was first played with in 1948 right after world war two by the dutch, not that it could mean anything though.




posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by Mactire
I'm not sure about the details of what creates the gravitational forces, just that gravity is created. I don't believe it's magnetism though. It could be some sort of high velocity centrifugal force (like a miniature hadron collider-type device). Personally, I have no idea how it works. Sorry. I just remember a report mentioning its possibility. I'll try to dig up those papers for you.
I do know the craft "creates its own gravity".
edit on 16-10-2010 by Mactire because: (no reason given)


He is probably referring to bob lazars account of his time in S4. The engine ran on a nuclear reaction using a fuel called Element 115 which doesn't naturally exist in our atmosphere and there were 3 gravity amplifiers that direct the gravitational distortion on the bottom and a wave guide on top of the craft. The 3 gravity amplifiers are on universal pivot mounts so they can direct the gravity well for the craft to go down hill in and start moving. The engine was 100% efficient in the way that there was no waste the engine not only moved the craft but also created all the electric on board. If anyone is interested in google Bob Lazar. I personally have ALWAYS believed bob however he is friends with John Lear and for watever reason people like to take credit from people just because of who they are friends with.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 02:14 AM
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Igor Witkowski has written about the Bell based on Sporrenberg's classified depositions on the pattig executions of 62 POWs at Ludwikwice/Ludwigsdorf about 22 April 1945.

Sporrenberg was in Norway at the time but the SS commando which bore his name conducted the executions.

The Bell However was not purely witnessed by only one person.

Greg Rowe related to another author listening to Otto Cerny describing the nazi bell at Huntsville, Alabama c.1961.

SS Hauptsturmfuhrer Rudolf Schuster gave an affidavit about loading the bell to a junkers Ju-390 at Blzystra Klodzko in April 1945 after it was removed from the wenceslas mine. This document is in the Berlin Document centre.

SS Col Dr Wilhelm Voss gave an account to British journalist and MI-5 officer Tom Agoston whilst he was being hidden to avoid the Nuremberg trials after the war

Opole railway worker Joachim Ibrom gave an account to Witkowski of shunting a marx generator on three wagons into the Wenceslas mine on several occasions and described the operation of the Bell which was connected to these wagons.

Dr Rolf Wideroe described the Bell device development in 1943 under Luftwaffe control before the SS took over in 1944. he called it the Wirbelrohr and said it was an X-ray rheotron.

Dallenbach also worked on development of the bell at Bisingen and met with Werner Heisenberg every Wednesday morning to discuss progress on the device.

The OSS learned through Herman Bucher head of AEG, via Erwin Respondek that the Dallenbach machine was a "heavy particle accelerator" Heisenberg called it a super Klystron.

Dallenbach's machine was captured near Bisingen about 23 April 1945 by ALSOS.

The Wenceslas machine was one of four Nazi Bells built by BAMAG Meguin at their Dassau plant.

In 1983, Soviet plasma Physicist GN Frolov disclosed during an interview at Warsaw University that Prof Manfred von Ardenne led him to Wenceslas mine after the war in company of soviet A-bomb physicist Igor Kurchatov. Ardenne disclosed there were two of these cyclotron devices installed in Wenceslas mine.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 02:24 AM
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reply to post by I B Dazzlin
 


Georgi Nikolayvitch Frolov was a a very esteemed and reclusive senior soviet physicist. Are you saying his account is not reliable or tainted?

The fact is that in the west information on the bell was deliberately suppressed. The fact there are so many outlandish and ridiculous claims about the device owes more to determined efforts in the west to hide it's true nature under layers of disinformation. Even today USA feels threatened by disclosure of the bell's true purpose.

Just look at US attempts to smear Assange by the use of two Sweedish prostitutes. Women who open their legs for money also open their mouths for money.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


I do not consider Georgi Nikolayvitch Frolov to be a totaly reliable source because I can't find anything about this person. All I could bring up was a sight about Georgi Nikolayvitch Frolov, the contemporary Russian literary author. I also cannot find anything about a few of the other people you were talking about, such as Dr. Moldovia. Thus I cannot put them into the category of a reliable source at this moment. What I need, is to look at primary sources of information about this, rather than getting it second hand. Then I can try to gather information to proove whether this is fact or fiction. It would be great if you could provide some sources for me to look into. Maybe you could link some web sites or give me the names of some books, with their authors. You have only given very generalized information about where you have gotten your info.



what the professor has written is cited on websites in Polish



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by I B Dazzlin
reply to post by sy.gunson
 


I do not consider Georgi Nikolayvitch Frolov to be a totaly reliable source because I can't find anything about this person. All I could bring up was a sight about Georgi Nikolayvitch Frolov, the contemporary Russian literary author. I also cannot find anything about a few of the other people you were talking about, such as Dr. Moldovia. Thus I cannot put them into the category of a reliable source at this moment. What I need, is to look at primary sources of information about this, rather than getting it second hand. Then I can try to gather information to proove whether this is fact or fiction. It would be great if you could provide some sources for me to look into. Maybe you could link some web sites or give me the names of some books, with their authors. You have only given very generalized information about where you have gotten your info.


what the professor has written is cited on websites in Polish


Given that you admit you know nothing of Frolov it is pretty rich saying he is not a reliable source. Perhaps you should simply confine yourself to saying you don't know much about him.

You knew nothing about him until I informed you.

Unfortunately many people who were born in the internet age do not understand what the Cold war was like nor the secrecy of the Soviet Union. What you are saying is equivalent to saying because you have never read anything on the internet about some scientist in North Korea's nuclear program, ipso facto that person has no credibility.

Youngsters forget that just like North Korea today, the soviet Union did not freely exchange information about it's most important scientific research, be that nuclear, physics or rocketry. Much about the soviet era has only come to light since the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. Anyone who was not an adult then will not even grasp the point I make.

Whilst his work is undoubtedly obscure, I spent 20 minutes on the internet and came up with these references to GN Frolov:



1. A Scientific and Technical Conference on elastic sensing elements used in measuring instruments and
automation was held in Moscow from March 22-25 1960. The conference was organized by the State Scientific and Technical Committee of the Council of Ministers, USSR and the Scientific Research Institute of Thermal Instruments of the State Committee of the Council of Ministers, USSR, on automation in engineering with the participation of the Scientific and Technical Instrument Making Society together with the administration of the exhibition of the achievements of the USSR national economy.

Thirty-one papers and several reports were read at the Conference.G.N. Frolov reported on the planning of technological processes in the production of springs and diaphragms for elastic elements (from the data of the Scientific Institute of Automation and Remote Control).



2. Frolov is also cited in an Isreali scientific paper:

"Electron transfer in donor-acceptor pair in modified α-chymotrypsin. Effect of microviscosity, macroviscosity and local polarity"

Olga V. Belonogovaa, , Gertz I. Likhtensteinb and Victor I. Krinichnyia, (a) Institute of Chemical Physics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Chernogolovka, Moscow Region, 142432, Russia (b) Department of Chemistry, Ben Gurion University of the Negev, P.O. Box 653.84105, Beer-Sheva, Israel

3. Electron transfer in donor-acceptor pair in modified α-chymotrypsin. Effect of microviscosity, macroviscosity and local polarity; A.I. Berg, P.P. Knox, A.A. Kononenko, G.N. Frolov, I.N. Chrymova, A.B. Rubin, G.I. Likhtenstein, V.I. Goldanskii, F. Parak, M. Bucl and R. Mössbauer.

4. Diagnosis and Treatment of Mesenchymal Chondrosarcoma, Murav'ev GN, Fradkin SZ, Zhavrid EA, Furmanchuk AV, Bogovich IuA, and Frolov GN PubMed ID: 2596059 Voprosy onkologii 35(10):1170-5, 1989

Part of the transcript of the frolov interview supplied by retired Polish Army officer Józef Piszczek of Wrocław.





GNFrołow - Why you are interested in the German nuclear research?
JR - I am sometimes with us in the south of the Polish Owl Mountains, near Walbrzych, there are underground tunnels during the war and legend circulating that the Germans began there any scientific research, and yet I know that they did not have a nuclear bomb. These rumors, however, occur so often that the topic interested me, and Mr. Szymanski said that Grigory Nikolayevich you know about everything.
GNF - (laughter) - No one knows everything, because the Germans had a lot of documents and materials poniszczyli experimental, and it took a lot of allies, the Americans. And where were you in the mountains near Waldenburg?
JR - I think everywhere in Głuszyca in Walim,
GNF - Wait, wait, use the German names. I just remember I do not know Polish.
JR - That I remember them: Wüstegiersdorf, Ludwigsdorf, Wüstewaltersdorf, Dörnau,
GNF - A Rudolfswald you were in?
JR - Rudolfswald, it's probably Sierpnica. Of course, I
GNF - Sierpnica? I do not know. In the documents then I think I saw a different Polish name, something from a tree - unless Larch. Tell me what was it like?
JR - To the southeast of the village, not far, about a mile of such a rock-hewn tunnels built by prisoners.
GNF - That's right. (That's actually - in 1945, this village was called Modrzewki-JR) In 1945, our army was there. Interesting things from there they brought.
JR - What are the military, the army has gone away yet?
GNF - Army, yes, but we had such special units (varies).
JR - SMERSH?
GNF-No, SMERSH - a lot of you know (smiling) - Szymanski spoke well of you. In Rudolfswaldu and elsewhere was an interview-no scientific researchers in uniform, but not subordinated to NKMD.
JR-Współpracowaliście Grigory Nikolayevich with them?
GNF - No, not with them, until I read the reports in Moscow.
JF - As it is only in Moscow, then you have not been in Lower Silesia after the war?
GNF - In Lower Silesia, no, I was not (varies), I was only in Waldenbergu.
JR - Can you tell me what ye are ye doing there best Soviet nuclear physicist?
GNF - (laughs) Such compliments I do not say, I'm not a girl. A lot better than I was. And with us, even Igor Kurchatov, AIU Germans, as it turned out.
JR - How are the Germans? So it's true of the German atomic bomb?
GNF - True and false - it's always mixed up with each other (silent a long moment.) How many years have passed, thirty-eight think, well, well - I'll tell you, ask.
JR - I must admit I do not know what I have to ask. I know too little. How was the Rudolfswaldu that there were too interesting things that you said?
GNF - Rudolfswald is another story. There he studied the military and talk about it I can not.
JR - A Walbrzych were you?
GNF - In Waldenbergu I was, but before returning from Germany to Moscow.
JR - What jechaliście to Germany, can you tell?
GNF - me there and Kurchatov Stalin sent. Reports are that Germany will keep atomic research. I went there as a representative of the Ministry of Light Machines. It turned out the place that the Germans were more advanced in these studies than you could imagine.
JR - Communication of information to you?
GNF - Information and test results showed the different places, and therefore in Waldenbergu be found.
JR - They showed something in Walbrzych?
GNF - No, Waldenbergu not, but I learned that the interview held in Dresden, German scientist, physicist who told me about secret trials in Waldenburgu, it took him and went, but he knew too little.
JR - How to - too little?
GNF - You see, the Germans had a lot of research groups. My German Dresden worked at the institute under the Ministry of Post, only once was Waldenbergu install the device, because that center subject to the SS.
JR - Whoa, whoa,'ve lost track. SS could do research, but the Ministry of Post? What Mail has to do with scientific research?
GNF - (laughs) That the times were, after all I said. No one would not expect an atom in the Ministry of Posts and (laughs) in the Ministry of Light Machines like us too.
JR - But your German is a physicist working in Walbrzych.
GNF - His institute has it some of the equipment for the SS and he only helped in the installation, I wanted the laboratory must see, but nothing came of it.
JR - Germans blew up?
GNF - Blow up probably did not blow up because it's the same city it was, but he could not hit.
JR -?
GNF - was there only once. The car which he drove from the station a long ride around the city and a German way is lost. Later, they entered into the mine and succinct it into the ground. Two days of sitting there, worked, ate and slept under the earth. As he finished, then again it powoził car around town, before it reached the station. And so with me in Germany could not find anything.
JR - But mine in Walbrzych is not so much not - have to know the environment, buildings?
GNF-skated with him a long time, I urged, threatened, nothing could. He said that when it was first feared. He said that people everywhere watched SS, described them as "sharp", he said that had such strange characters in uniform, you've never seen before.
JR - Did he say anything about what was mine?
GNF - Yes, he said that his colleagues he took a cyclotron, but it turned out that this second, because one was already there. They are they installed the second. He told me that mine was specially adapted. There were carts, tables, all necessary equipment, and the entrance locks and guards. He could not go, because he had a special pass.
JR - you talked about the underground nuclear laboratory, Grigory Nikolayevich believe him?
GNF - I believed. He talked about the little things that he knew our interview. There they were in the mine underground telephone connection to the whole Germany. She was reportedly television. Yes, I believed him, he had no need to lie, for it was then a bullet.
JF-not looking for more of this mine?
GNF - What do you mean we were looking for? How could not look? I no longer, but our long sought. They were German plans for the mine, went with the Polish miners. For nothing was. Not found, and several were killed.
JR-attack was some kind of mine?
GNF - Do not attack, only the Germans and Poles working in the mine secretly overs mines. That, and stopped to look.
JR - I, Germany had the atomic bomb?
GNF - I have this question, you do not answer, but history may give an answer. They had a lot more than we expected.




posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 




Perhaps you should simply confine yourself to saying you don't know much about him.

Maybe you missed where I said


I do not consider Georgi Nikolayvitch Frolov to be a totaly reliable source because I can't find anything about this person



Thus I cannot put them into the category of a reliable source at this moment.

This is only my opinion on the matter at this time. I did not propose this as my final say in the matter. Nor was I preaching that he was a liar. I just wanted to find out where you got your info on him so I can make my own decision on him. Which is better, me making a decission about something with out looking at the information or wanting to see the information first? I mean how do I know, that you know, what you are talking about anyway?

I did not find anything on him in my first search, as I searched using his whole name and did not find anything. Upon using G.N. Frolov I did get some of his writtings to come up on a search. The only sites I found talking about him and the bell were mostly forums that did not specify where they got their info. Can you give me any links to any better sites about him and the bell?

In case you were wondering I do know about the secrecy during the Cold War. I am not nieve to the level of secrecy in the Soviet Union. I wasn't born in the '50s or '60s but I can and do listen to those who were there living it and read about what was happening then. Yes I do read and not just on the internet.

I will be looking further into G.N. Frolov to see what he has to say about the bell. I have seen some of his papers in journals but I have not found any good sites about him and the bell. If you could give me some links to some it would be appreciated. Also do you have a link for the Frolov interview that you have quoted? If you know of any interesting papers or books written by him I would like to look into those as well.



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 01:52 AM
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In the past few hours I had an email from my friend Stanislaw Michalik who is the Editor of Gluszycy Voice newspaper in a town where Thoriumphosphate was mined for Der Reise projekt.

I asked him specifically to tell me more about Frolov as he is little known in the West. Here is part of the text which should give you more update on Frolov. I understand he is also known by another name which appears to be the german equivalent of Frolov, or Flerow. I have not attempted yet to Google that name. Stanislaw is confident he can be found on the internet. He wrote to me in Polish but this is the translation:




The hero interview "Secrets of the Walbrzych coal mine" is a scholar of Soviet nuclear physicist, designer of rocket technology and nuclear, Georgy Nikolayevich Florow (Flerow, 1913-1990). Since 1960, he was director of the Laboratory of Nuclear Reactions Institute of Nuclear Research in Dubna. More information can be found about him in Google.

Interview with Florowem reaffirms far reaching war plans of Adolf Hitler, associated with the largest German investment in the military at the end of the war in the Owl Mountains in Walbrzych, known under the code name "Riese". As for underground research laboratories and production facilities in the most modern weapons, which was to decide the fate of the war in favor of the Germans. The construction began in late 1943 after the bombing by the Allies Penemunde.

In my town, Głuszyca are open to the public by tourists underground tunnels, halls and sidewalks the length of about 2 km. into the massif. Unfortunately, much of the underground tunnel is blocked infarcts.



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 02:46 AM
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Once again, all there is here-say from some very minor characters. There are no primary sources and it seems that a lot of this stuff is faked. It's interesting to see so much of this "information" coming from Polish sources. The Bell hoax has been perpetrated to sell books nothing more.
Nothing I have seen leads me to believe anything about the Bell is believable and I have a very open mind. The whole "interviews" and supposed "documents" probably don't even exist as no primary sources are ver produced.



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 03:52 AM
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Originally posted by mad scientist
Once again, all there is here-say from some very minor characters. There are no primary sources and it seems that a lot of this stuff is faked. It's interesting to see so much of this "information" coming from Polish sources. The Bell hoax has been perpetrated to sell books nothing more.
Nothing I have seen leads me to believe anything about the Bell is believable and I have a very open mind. The whole "interviews" and supposed "documents" probably don't even exist as no primary sources are ver produced.


Once again commentary from someone who has done no research and knows nothing himself.



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


Very nice information!
This info helped me find out more about G.N. Frolov. I tried searching the name Flerow insted of Frolov. This brought up a good deal of info on him. I found different last names being used for him such as, Frolov, Flerow, Flerov, and Flyorov. Here are some links to some of the sights I found about him.
en.wikipedia.org...
flerovlab.jinr.ru...
iopscience.iop.org...
It is a little tricky finding good info on him because of the different last names but this prooves to me that Frolov would be the type of person that would of known about the bell. Now im just trying to find someplace that has goo info regarding Frolov and his knowledge of the bell project.



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


You have sources for any of this? It all sounds plausible but with no documents to back it up it means nothing.

My understanding of Dresden has always been that it was an allied terror bombing. More interesting and more pertinent to the Bell would be the british bombing runs around Penemunde after the germans had already "left" the place.

So far there has not been any well documented evidence of there being more than one Bell. However, I would hedge my bets that there was multiple or perhaps maybe several prototypes that have been buried under piles of rubble beneath Penemunde that still lay undiscovered.

I would also suggest that it's not a far stretch to think that the Soviets may have recovered some information on the Bell, just like the Brits, and the Americans did. After Penemunde was under attack it was an all out Allied race to get the Nazis secret toys so the Russians may have gotten their hands on some Bell technology as well.

Ferrel has some decent proposals with some verifiable documentation's, as does Igor Witkowski, I believe, even though many researchers choose to overlook them since they made the "mistake" of making money off of the UFO community. What a joke, but thats a different discussion all together.

Other than that try getting FOIA documents for Project Lusty. Maybe if more people than myself keep applying to look at them the will stop putting us off for years at a time. Project Lusty is the lesser know companion of Project Paperclip. The MO of Lusty was 25,000 pounds of paper documentation the US took from Penemunde while Paperclip was ongoing. As we were bringing scientists over from Germany, we were also bringing all of their research too. Thats where the real information will be found. Until than, the rest is still speculation, but there's nothing wrong with that.



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by W3RLIED2
 


I think the reason that Farrell gets overlooked and scoffed at is because he puts discrediting information in some of his books. Such as in the book The SS Brotherhood of the Bell he puts in a crazy letter from an annoynmous sender, talking about MJ 12. He also randomley stickes in info about the JFK assasination and a Nazi conection. None of this had anything to do with the bell. These are some of the things that make me not look as favorabley towards Joseph P. Farrell.

I don't think I would call Operation Lusty a companion to Paperclip, more of a predecessor. Lusty began April 1945, Overcast began July 1945 and Paperclip began August 1945. It was Operation Lusty that paved the way for these other exploitive operations. This information is from the book Project Paperclip: German Scientists and the Cold War by Clarence G. Lasby



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by sy.gunson

Originally posted by mad scientist
Once again, all there is here-say from some very minor characters. There are no primary sources and it seems that a lot of this stuff is faked. It's interesting to see so much of this "information" coming from Polish sources. The Bell hoax has been perpetrated to sell books nothing more.
Nothing I have seen leads me to believe anything about the Bell is believable and I have a very open mind. The whole "interviews" and supposed "documents" probably don't even exist as no primary sources are ver produced.


Once again commentary from someone who has done no research and knows nothing himself.


No it's commentary from someone who has done some research, but unlike you doesn't believe in half truths, mysterious documents which can never be produced, supposed interview transcripts etc etc. It isn't my fault you're gullible.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by I B Dazzlin
 


I agree with you on several points!
Lusty started before Paperclip but was not completed until Paperclip was near completion. I too would say that some of Farrel's material, particularly in SS Brotherhood of the Bell ( I liked the Giza Death Star books much more, as well as Reich of the Black Sun) is not verifiable... However, some of it is, like the stuff referenced by Igor Witkowski that Farrel also cites and researches. That's some good stuff. I still don't know what to think about Xerum 525. I've always leaned toward this substance being real, especially after researching " red mercury " that was supposedly produced by the Soviets... The substances characteristics are so similar that it leads me to believe that both are real and both have been tested for the use within a mercury gyroscopic system as is suggested the Bell had.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 03:06 AM
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reply to post by W3RLIED2
 


I agree with you on the possibility of red mercury/xerum 525 being real. If it has been produced and has the capabilities as believed, it would lend a good deal of credence to the idea that the bell was a type of nuclear device. Some believe that xerum 525 was salted with hafnium and tantalum. It has been theorized that both of these elements can be used to salt nuclear weapons. Hafnium is used today in nuclear power plants in their control rods to absorb neutrons. So the bell could possibley be a nuclear reactor or bomb of some sort.



posted on Jan, 1 2011 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by sy.gunson
 


You have sources for any of this? It all sounds plausible but with no documents to back it up it means nothing.

My understanding of Dresden has always been that it was an allied terror bombing. More interesting and more pertinent to the Bell would be the british bombing runs around Penemunde after the germans had already "left" the place.

So far there has not been any well documented evidence of there being more than one Bell. However, I would hedge my bets that there was multiple or perhaps maybe several prototypes that have been buried under piles of rubble beneath Penemunde that still lay undiscovered.

I would also suggest that it's not a far stretch to think that the Soviets may have recovered some information on the Bell, just like the Brits, and the Americans did. After Penemunde was under attack it was an all out Allied race to get the Nazis secret toys so the Russians may have gotten their hands on some Bell technology as well.

Ferrel has some decent proposals with some verifiable documentation's, as does Igor Witkowski, I believe, even though many researchers choose to overlook them since they made the "mistake" of making money off of the UFO community. What a joke, but thats a different discussion all together.

Other than that try getting FOIA documents for Project Lusty. Maybe if more people than myself keep applying to look at them the will stop putting us off for years at a time. Project Lusty is the lesser know companion of Project Paperclip. The MO of Lusty was 25,000 pounds of paper documentation the US took from Penemunde while Paperclip was ongoing. As we were bringing scientists over from Germany, we were also bringing all of their research too. Thats where the real information will be found. Until than, the rest is still speculation, but there's nothing wrong with that.



Apologies to IB Dazzlin... I have discovered there are different spellings for Flerov, Flerowe and Flyerov, owing to differing translations from Cryllic.I think we are all bamboozled by that.

Flerov bio details

More bio

Flerov Laboratory

So to IB Dazzlin and Mad Scientist yes the man not only existed but is famous in the former Soviet Union as being the man who first proposed to Stalin in 1942 that Russia also needed a Manhattan type project. He could hardly be more famous or reputable.I note that as usual Mad Scientist was quick to sneer at things he had no knowledge of and once again displayed his overwhelming ignorance and arrogance.

IB Dazzlin sorry mate but we got there after some digging. I had to track down the ultimate source. It was based upon a military report an original copy of which is today in the hands of a retired Polish army officer Joseph Piszczek.

W3RLIED2, Yes I have a source, but allow me to quote from my friend Stanislaw Michalik, editor of Gluszycys Voice newspaper who first published the interview which I published above:



Secrets of mine Walbrzych
2008-04-24 (14:14)
I have before me a document that you sent me an interesting puzzle for years Sowie, a retired officer, Joseph Piszczek from Wroclaw. This is a transcript of an interview with the Soviet scientist - a physicist, Grigory Nikolayevich Frolov, which took place in late 1983 in Warsaw. This occurred just after a scientific conference in the Palace of Culture. Perhaps then handed down the reactor "Maria" to another research facility associated with medicine. Unfortunately, we do not know the relationship the author, who hid under the code name JR We know that the person was engaged in research on the German atomic bomb during the war, however, the conversation took place through the intercession of prof. Zdzislaw Szymanski with the Institute of Nuclear Research in Swierk, the father of Polish school of theoretical nuclear physics from the University of Warsaw. Prof. Szymanski persuaded fellow "musician"to this conversation, because as he said "nobody knows so much about the German research, like Frolov.

And here is a faithful record of interview, reproduced on the basis of notes.[see transcript of 1983 interview above]


Gluszycys Voice Newspaper article on Flyerov

Glos Gluzycys

Glos Gluzycys online

W3RLIED2 actually USA was forced to release an avalanche of secret wartime documents in the late 1970s against British wishes from NARA. It was suggested at the time that this emptied the cupboard but the Nazi bell story has proven to me at least that further intelligence is still classified.

If you Google ALSOS + Forschungsstelle D + Bisingen you will soon find references to capture of an "uncompleted" superklystron at Bisingen which was what Heisenberg termed the device. It was a super cyclotron or heavy particle accelerator. Cyclotrons generate plasma from ionised particles. In other words they generate photonic radiation from ionised elements. If you accelerate particles fast enough in a magnetic filed it will result in photon colisions with electrons and the generation of neutrons.

Also a further source alludes that during WW2 a nuclear biologist named Boris Rajewsky was to be delivered the fourth artificial gamma ray machine but it was diverted to a higher priority military project in 1943.*

* "Biologists Under Hitler," Deichmann, Ute & Dunlap, Thomas, p.13

Naturally excited Neutrons are called Gamma rays. Artificially produced neutrons are called X-rays, but the term is confusing because X-rays used to be a term restricted to low energy radiation. The terminolgy has changed. If you were not strictly correct you would say the nazis developed an artificial Gamma ray source without need for a nuclear reactor.

At Farm Hall on three separate occasions Prof Kurt Diebner, Dr Paul Harteck and Prof Walter Gerlach all referred to Nazi Germany's photochemistry project to obtain fissile Uranium for an Atomic weapon, yet no information has ever been disclosed under the FOIA to explain what this project was?

At Harnack Haus conferences in both February and July 1942 Werner Heisenberg pressed for Nazi Germany to build atomic weapons from harvesting Proactinium. At the July 1942 conference he told Luftwaffe Chief of staff Erhard Milch that the atomic weapon would be as small as a pineapple and the warhead itself would weigh 4kg. With pure Uranium 233 harvested from beta decay of Proactinium 233, a nuclear warhead can be constructed from just 4kg of pure U233.

Obtaining pure Uranium 233 is nearly impossible from reactor waste as it gets contaminated by Uranium 232, however with a short burst of neutron radiation below 14 MeV Proactinium can be bred without risk of contamination. Within 27 days it will decay into Uranium 233 and be safe to handle.

It is U232 contamination which makes reactor waste sourced U233 dangerous.

Whether the likes of Igor Witkowski (plus Farrell & Cook) willfully disseminated UFO theories to distract the public from the real history of the Nazi bell or were themselves misled, I am convinced that all this stuff about UFOs and levitation are just manipulative disinformation campaigns by western governments which belong to NATO.

POST SCRIPT:

It is worth adding to this various different names applied to the Nazi Bell by Nazis themselves:

Prof Heisenberg called it the Superklystron

Dr Rolf Wideroe called it Wirbelrohr and said it was an X-ray Rheotron.

Railway worker Joachim Ibrom said workers at Wenceslas mine called it the Beehive

OSS spy/informant quoted AEG Chairman Herman Bucher referring to it as a Heavy Particle Accelerator
edit on 1-1-2011 by sy.gunson because: added post script



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 01:23 AM
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Incidentally Count von Harnack after whom harnack haus was named which was home to the nazi nuclear project was it turned out a spy in the red ochestra Soviet spy ring



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 





Whether the likes of Igor Witkowski (plus Farrell & Cook) willfully disseminated UFO theories to distract the public from the real history of the Nazi bell or were themselves misled, I am convinced that all this stuff about UFOs and levitation are just manipulative disinformation campaigns by western governments which belong to NATO.


I wanted to post this for you and anyone else who may feel confused about this subject.. I have no proof.. it is just my word and my dad's word.. but I wanted to give my "testimony". You can take it for what it's worth and try to look for evidence to prove it out.

I have no doubt that the Germans developed antigravity tech.. and we co-opted it or maybe added it to our own research. I think this technology is traced back to Viktor Schuaberger and the Germans intepreted it in their own fashion by abstracting Schauberger's devices. I also think Tesla and especially TTBrown's work was on the mark.

The reason I feel so strongly about this is because in the late 60's my dad and his best friend saw a stereotpyical UFO at point blank range and watched it for several minutes. They were on a 2 lane highway out in the middle of nowhere in nothern washington state -- the opposite side of the country where the first UFO sighting in US history was made.

Now, here is where it gets really interesting.. the UFO my dad saw he later saw again -- it ws the same exact saucer Bob lazar descibed seeing at Area 51 which appeared identical to the designs seen by Billy Meier in Europe in the mid 70s. I believe both Meier AND Lazar were government disinfo agents.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Lazar makes himself seem to be some kind of freedom fighter selling dengerous chemicals to scientists.. it's the perfect cover for someone whose purpose is suppressing super technolgies from the rest of society He also says we could be driving cars using hydrogen if only the material used to make the tanks wasn't also used in Nukes.. HINT HINT... menaig this is the same reaosn they can't release antigrav. Also, Lazar's best buddy just happens to be John Lear whose dad was William Lear that developed Lear Jet and was part of the group trying to develop antigravity in the 50s.

All this alien stuff we hear about is disinfo IMO. It's meant to discredit th entire topic of antigravity and UFOs. I think our governemnt got this idea when our soldiers saw the Foo Fighters over Gemrany and thought they were alien because the tech seemed so advanced. The saucer shape is also perfect for radar stealth. which is likely why the Germans used it. Both of these reasons are why we made our craft the same way. Though I think the whole "saucer" idea got hoaky so they moved to black triangles.

Sorry.. i'm rambling. I could go on. When you have one foothold like what my dad saw it really helps you see the thread of truth through all of this. But I am still not certain what it all means.. if there is some ulterior motive - NWO. etc.

I know no one is likely to believe this... but I feel obligated to share this information. I promise you this is true to the best of my jnolwedge and I have full faith in my dad's account. He told my mom about it a couple years after he saw it and has never changed his story and is completely serious about it.

I also hihgly highly highly recommend everyone read the books "The Hunt for Zero Point" by Nick Cook - non fiction AND "Secrets of aantigravity propulsion" by Paul Liviolette. I thnk both guys are DEAD ON.

I alo feel there may be some evidence of value from Stan Deyo - thought I am not sure if he is a disinfo agent mixing truth with lies.

I am also highly convinced Mark McCandlish is real too. He describes the closed caption camera system on the top of the craft that he heard about you can see used on the version my dad saw and Lazar described. So this makes me think the other systems he described are real too.

[
edit on 2-1-2011 by 8311-XHT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 03:08 AM
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what I find very curious about that film über die Glocke, ( Nazi bell on Mitt radio - on first page ) when you look at the image behind die Glocke you see those signs just the same kind like the ones that were seen on that California Drone in 2007 Lake Tahoe / Chad ...... and Isaac / Caret signs .........
what about that, did I miss something here ????
Hoax ???
but that paper from the nazis with die Glocke and the signs, and the swastika, is it a real paper ?
Have to read more about this .....
edit on 2-1-2011 by Sunlionspirit because: (no reason given)
edit on 2-1-2011 by Sunlionspirit because: (no reason given)






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