Replacement for SA80

SA80A2 is now fitted with a grenade launcher and now work well.
I've never had a major problem with mine since it was modified-yes they do need cleaning, but as weirdo states this should be a soldiers main priority before he washes his nuts!
Susat sight is a great piece of kit and the SA80A2 one of the most accurate 5.56mm rifles on the market.
That said the A1 version not so good, rushed out before proper trials.

If it was to be replaced, I'm guessing it would be the G36, however lets trial that in the desert for sustained period of time first before issue.

SIG552 would also be my one of my choices or the steyr AUG tried and tested excellent piece of kit, guess it's not about looking cool the enemy still shoot at you & beleive it or not bullets kill cool looking guys too!
-The Love Monkey

the SA80a2 is the best assault rifle in the world
its been proven that its reliability leaves a lot to be desired but it it well
built, very accurate and very powerful
what more do you want?

reply to post by fritz


You get greater range (and accuracy) from an SA80 than from an M4...

I'm a big fan on the G36, personally. But then I live in Baden-Württemberg, so obviously I'd be biased.

[edit on 4/9/08 by dave420]

Originally posted by fritz
I hear on the grapevine that certain people are screaming out for M14s and FN SLRs.

Now I wonder where all ours went................................................

I know of quite a few that ended up shooting back at us in Sierra Leone...

As an aside, at least one of those SLRs captured from the WSB had a serial number that matched one issued to the Paras at the time of Bloody Sunday. It had been called for examination by the origional inquest into Bloody Sunday, but the Paras reported that it had been destroyed as part of a decommissioning programme.

Now who'd have thought there would be two SLRs with matching serial numbers...

I know what you mean Paddy.

In Oman at the height of the Insurgency, quite a few pieces of hardware were captured from the Ado including a brand spanking new General - c/w factory preservation.

reply to post by PaddyInf


That is fascinating. Does anyone know where the leak occurred?

I used the L85 for 6 and a half years, bear in mind this was prior to the re-engineering work carried out by H & K in 2002-3.

The biggest bug-bears for the British Soldier are the fiddly working parts once stripped down for cleaning.
The bolt carrier assembly (BCA) consists of several tiny bits that when separated from the BCA, they are easy to misplace in the field if you drop them during cleaning and if you do that you end up with a useless rifle.
That was one problem, the other is that it aquired a reputation for being prone to jamming.
I'm left handed and pointed out the short-coming on having to fire from my right shoulder, I got told 'tough, deal with it'. I did and learnt to fire from my right-shoulder from then on in. No problem there.
I was pssed of there wasn't a way of changing the firing ejection mech to the left, but this is impossible due to the design fabrication.
Firing from around walls will mean a left-hand wall edge for a right-shouldered firer will result in a cartridge to the face.
The safety catch placement means that you have to remove your finger from the trigger to release, for many soldiers, this is near-unforgiveable if you are behind enemy lines/want to move safely while having an edge.
You can, however, flick the safety with your left hand instead, although this only a quick fix on a flawed area of the design.
The biggest pain in the arse is the carbon build-up after firing and the awkward nature of the design means cleaning the cavities is finiky and tenacious. This itself is partly the fault of the 5.56 ammo propellent which doesn't 100% burn off when fired and the metal finish of the gas parts. It leaves behind residue, far more than other gun makes.
The SAS / SBS reviewed them and gave a damning verdict that it was fit only for the army shooting team!

I think the fact that only two countries - one S. American country another M.E use them (I think we gave one set away for training purposes!)

The compact design, however is a real boon when jumping in and out of armoured vehicles etc.
I can vouch for the fact that the accuracy and ease of use with regards the sights is v. good.

Paddy makes some very good comments.
With the mods that have taken place I've heard mostly good things on the L85 from serving soldiers who've been in the M.E fighting.

[edit on 6-9-2008 by WatchRider]

As you say, the A1 did have too many flaws. Things like the bolt carrier assembly are no longer stripped down as part of normal daily cleaning, although most people still do it, placing the cam stud and firing pin retaining pin into their head dress/helmet. The gas parts are a bit easier to clean on the A2, but not much. Some of th fiddlier bits on the gas plug have been removed.

When stripping the weapon in the field it is normal practice to strip it on piece at a time, clean this piece then replace it before moving onto the next. This means you don't lose bits and you aren't left with 15 bits of rifle in front of you if you get bumped.

The safety catch is not the best design in the world and is often cited as one of the major flaws of the weapon. I don't think that it is the issue that everyone makes out. As you state you DO NOT have to remove your finger from the trigger to release it, as this can be done with the left hand very quickly. It is very bad practice to be patrolling with the finger on the trigger anyway as this increases the chance of an ND, as stated in PAM 5. I patrol with my finger along the trigger mechanism housing above the trigger with the tip resting on the safety catch. Any dramas and i just press with my trigger finger to release the safety and move my finger to the trigger.

I for one, do not why why squaddies moan about the transverse safety catch on the L85 or L86.

The General has a slightly larger button to push, and I have never heard of anybody moaning about that!

My feeling is, that squaddies will always find something to moan about. I know I did, and I am not unique.

Perhaps if the modern squaddie had a proper weapon like the L1A1 FN SLR to use, they would see just how lucky they really are.

Apart from the bayno, that is. Never did like that thing!

To be honest i think the A2 is a grand weapon as it is. It was not long ago since we have changed from A1 to A@ and people who are saying that we should change weapon again or saying that we are going to be changing weapon's are getting false information from someone who don't know jack.

the A2 is the new improved A1, the A1 was not as reliable as it needed to be so here is the A1 problem solved no need to change somthing that is doing fine as it is.

i hear that others are saying that the weight and size is an issue too. i was in the caddet force when i was 12 and was standing at around 4ft 9inc ( very small bloke!) and i was able to hold and control it fine ( that was the A1 equivalent) and now aged 18 and just finished cadets and done 3 insight courses with the para's pwrr's and royal signals i have to say the weight was no problem at all and neither was the size, i think some people are getting a bit too fussy and wanting weapons to as light as water pistols SA80 = mans machine !!

I wouldnt mind seeing the FN2000 replacing the SA80, as its a cracking rifle and its also bullpup, so the troops would know how to hold it etc.
PLUS its ambidextrous so lefties dont worry

Or the Sterling SAR-87(Advanced AR18) that would have been the standard British rifle.

A Bullpup variant of the Korobov TKB-517 chambered in 5.56mmNATO would be the best. The TKB-517 is more reliable/accurate and cheaper than the AK series and would be the best rifle ever if it gets adopted. It uses the same operation as the FAMAS compared below:

I hope they go for this...



Steyr AUG I do't really know how it compares to other rifles... But I've heard it's very flexible (interchangeable barrels among other things) and the thing just looks so damn cool! - also I think it's unusual among bull pup (so?) designs cos it can be fired by a leftie,

reply to post by Cutaway


Shouldn't you really comment on the pictures you've posted

Above is an idea for a new British service rifle using the same operation as the Korobov TKB-517 for reliability/simplicity/cheap cost etc. Below is an idea for a front magazine AUG:



[edit on 25-12-2008 by Cutaway]

eh

are those just photoshops you've done?