A Question for Skeptics and Critical Thinkers

theres lots of times when people say they dont know, simply because the evidence is too grainy to make out anything definitively or because its unexplainable. but 99% of the time its just an airplane or a bird or CGI but 99% of the people want soooooo badly to believe that they completely ignore all the evidence pointing to a hoax or a natural phenomenon like planes taking off and landing at night from miles away on a grainy webcam and thus we have a 10/13/10.

I don't know that there is any 'making a difference.'

What we've got is 2 factions arguing opposite sides of an unknown. Neither can substantiate their argument to the other side's contentment because the unknown is just so large.

The piece that is funny is that we all want the same answer. We all want confirmation of ET life. Some are willing to accept very slim evidence as that confirmation, while others need it to drop on their front lawn, but we're all interested in the same answer to the same question. It's just a matter of where we draw the line for what we consider our threshold of positive confirmation.

I for one believe (without any positive confirmation) that there is other intelligent life in the galaxy.
I believe that what humanity knows about the physics of the galaxy may not scratch the surface of the whole.
I believe it is likely that advanced civilizations to travel the galaxy.
I believe it is possible that some of those civilizations may have come to Earth.
I believe that there are a few cases which seem to support this possibility.
Yet I have absolutely no positive confirmation of any of these beliefs and continue to look for that piece of evidence that I cannot deny.

That's where my threshold is. That's where I draw my line. Others draw theirs even lower, many draw it much higher. The argument therefore is strictly a matter of one person's disbelief that another person has a different threshold for confirmation. I'm not sure how any amount of discourse can do much to affect that.

Originally posted by cripmeister

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Question is, are we, as critical-thinkers, making any difference?

We used to but there's so much b$ here now that it's not worth it anymore. The idiots are taking over

I hear that.

It's like swimming upstream now against a tide of BS.

Originally posted by babybunnies
The trouble with skeptics is NOT that they are closed minded or won't accept the logical answers.

Skeptics want to see undeniable proof before they will admit that something is true. They are generally very open minded to new ideas, they just want proof.

Some skeptics are skeptical about everything, others are only skeptical about certain topics. In all cases however, skeptics want to see proof and refuse to believe based on questionable science or faith alone.

Once you've found multiple proofs from multiple sources, skeptics will generally buy in to whatever idea you're trying to sell.

gold star for this if i could give one.

second line

thanks

rich

Originally posted by RICH-ENGLAND

Originally posted by babybunnies
The trouble with skeptics is NOT that they are closed minded or won't accept the logical answers.

Skeptics want to see undeniable proof before they will admit that something is true. They are generally very open minded to new ideas, they just want proof.

Some skeptics are skeptical about everything, others are only skeptical about certain topics. In all cases however, skeptics want to see proof and refuse to believe based on questionable science or faith alone.

Once you've found multiple proofs from multiple sources, skeptics will generally buy in to whatever idea you're trying to sell.

gold star for this if i could give one.

second line

thanks

rich

Great, now trolls are going to come in this thread... this site is doomed

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Just based upon my own experiences I have a two fold answer.

Regarding threads...

It is very difficult to get a stated fact even acknowledged in some threads, much less accepted or believed by those with opposing viewpoints. There is just too much of a predisposition for some people to fall back onto the "you lack enlightenment", "sheeple", "that's what they want you to think", "you took the blue pill" platform. And arguing against blind, magical, faith based positions is a fools errand. One cannot displace an emotionally biased "belief" no matter how accurate, pertinent, or overpowering the facts may be.

And it can be very, very frustrating, as we all know, to try and do so.

But there is a caveat here, at least for me.

I spend time in the chatroom and, there, I have had much more success. The adversarial nature, in that environment, isn't as profound. People get to know one another in a more complete manner and that leads to the automatic rejections being, well, rejected. There is a bit more acceptance of contrary positions.

It's easy to label somebody as a "disinfo" agent in a thread, offhand. But in a more social setting, like chat, where you see that person in a more whole manner, it's more difficult to pigeon hold them outright.

So, my advice... Next time you reach an impasse with a poster, in a thread that has you frustrated, invite them to the chatroom... Get them into a real time conversation about the issues, but also about themselves. It really does work.

~Heff

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


It is hard to say whether we've made any real difference but we've seen quite a few hoaxes put to bed quickly. Skepticism is necessary if we want to get the bottom of the UFO phenomenon. If I, as a skeptic, can remind even one person of the need for skepticism when it comes to finding the truth, than I have done my part.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by cripmeister

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Question is, are we, as critical-thinkers, making any difference?

We used to but there's so much b$ here now that it's not worth it anymore. The idiots are taking over

Does that just mean we give up?

Nah one thing I've really enjoyed in coming back to these forums is the people willing to make the effort to apply critical thinking to an issue instead of jumping on whatever bandwagon the thread is providing.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
(snip)
Question is, are we, as critical-thinkers, making any difference?

It is impossible for critical thinkers, skeptics and debunkers included although not all skeptics and debunkers are critical thinkers!, to outnumber believers. Humans are born without beliefs, a blank slate for a mind. As humans age the mental conditioning begins, first at home depending on the kind of home but those born into religious home are the first depending on the severity of the family's beliefs. We see children on TV constantly being "forced" to think blindly.

If the conditioning is not severe - if they're not bible-thumpers, as in my family, chances are that the children will grow up with a questioning mind as I did. I never accepted religious beliefs.

When it came time to deal with UFOs, I didn't believe nor accept reports at face value. People were reporting that they were seeing what they considered non-human aerial objects and I was curious as to what they were witnessing but I never accepted UFOs as real until I had my own unquestionable sightings.

It was natural for me not to accepta hearsay, I always wanted evidence before I made up my mind. I could be told not to touch a hot stove otherwise I might get burned. I was the kind of person who had to touch the hot stove so that I could know by experience.

So because critical thinkers are not mentally-conditioned to accept without evidence, it is obvious that critical thinkers are in the minority and we are what all humans should aspire to be. But conditioning does not allow it. So as far as ATS and all forums where opinion is expressed, they will always be overwhelmed by what we call the gullible believers. Even though you'd think an adult should know the difference between right and wrong, it is amazing at the lack of common sense, logic, and reason expressed by the majority. What stops them from thinking: "You know, what you say sounds like you're telling the truth but I need supporting evidence before I can accept it". That mental strength is missing in the majority of humans.

To address your question, common sense, logic, and reason have to work against the opposite. When someone posts a thread or a comment that needs clarification and one is offered that is acceptable by all critical thinkers that may read the questionable comments, those that would normally support the questionable thinker's "logic" have to make a decision which way to go. Sometimes those positively affected will say so and we know we have a "temporary convert" to critical thinking. But as I like to stress, cult deprogrammers have admitted that erasing non-critical thinking with critical thinking is not impossible but it sure is difficult. I know what that's like as I've had many conversations with normally intelligent people who have a difficult time accepting logic. Their minds are closed due to the potent mental conditioning that got them in that mental state in the first place.
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