Bill O'Reilly causes Joy and Whoopi to walk off set of "The View"

reply to post by whatukno


you just did the same thing you accused him of.

listen you've been brainwashed into believing that christians, jews and muslims go around forcing their beliefs on literally, everyone else. yet you acknowledge that there are extremists everywhere, in every ideology or world view, but can't help but beating the hell out of abrahamic faiths in general, so much so, that even in the midst of defending their rights against ridiculous stereotypes, you push a big one out yourself.

reply to post by undo


But that is the point, all these three religions have done since they have been born is try and kill each other. Usually for some spit of desert land. It's not even that good of real estate, it's a freaking DESERT!

The people that make up these religions if left to their own devices could probably care less about the others, its the people that preach these religions that screw it up.

Not one of these three religions is free from blame in bloodshed in the name of God. NOT ONE.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
I went with the same conclusion/assumption, but when confronted and asked to differentiate, and to clarify his postion, to draw a verbal distinction between the actions of a few dozen (allegedly) acting under the guise of the Muslim banner, and just using the word "Muslims" without an adjective or descriptive, he would not do it, rather he was deflective and his statements & rhetorical questions appeared to me to be evasive and deliberately ambiguous.

Well now to be fair he was getting yelled at and yelled over by 3 or 4 women. I've yet to meet a man who wouldn't get flustered and not be able to explain what he meant if that happens. Really though, I think he just made the mistake of believing that they would and should be able to understand what he meant without picking apart what he said and analyzing it word by word.

I'm not entirely sure this is a fair analogy. There is a distinct difference. Germany is a country. Islam is not.

The principle behind it is the same though. A reasonable person would not look at that analogy and think all Germans were being referred to just as a reasonable person would not look at O'Reilly's comment and think all Muslims were being referred to. I could have used an analogy with Jews and the crucifixion, if one being a country and the other a religion is your only objection to it.

But, no, I would not think everyone in Germany was guilty of being involved, just the ones who funded the cause by paying taxes, providing goods and services, and passively and/or actively participated knowingly and/or unknowingly with the extermination and experimentation on other people.

You just included pretty much everyone who was in Germany in the group of guilty parties..

I only quoted a small portion of your post, because I wanted to share and clarify some thoughts I entertain about this subject matter, but not neccessarily subscribe to.

No worries, I do the same thing.

reply to post by whatukno


dude, that's not the point. either you allow people to be individuals, ungeneralized by silly stereotypes, or you don't. you can't have it both ways. that's like a psycho message. i refuse to give of my time and energy, participating in a thread, whose purpose is to EXPOSE ridiculous stereotypes, only to be stereotyped by a guy who claims you shouldn't stereotype! you need to LOOK at what you're saying. you've been brainwashed so hard, you don't even realize it. it's freakin' weird.

Guns don't kill people do they? But guns are used in the act of killing people by other people, yet despite your logic of punishing the innocent, we don't ban all guns.

It's the same exact argument here.

Sorry Whatukno,
That argument does not hold much water here.
It all depends, I guess, on whether your gun is telling you..................

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71

Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74

Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76

But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89

Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65

It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67

Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111

Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....

As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15

Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60

Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5

Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29

Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9

The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51

Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)

www.wvinter.net...

reply to post by christinaV


Ask and you shall receive! Looks like a pretty professional poll to me. And note this is CBS not FOX. Open your eyes people.
And to say the terrorist were NOT Muslims? Lol.

www.cbsnews.com...

reply to post by Quadrivium


Btw that you for this post. This clearly shows the hypocrisy of this claiming Islam to be a peaceful religion. Peaceful until you disagree with us, then we kill you.

reply to post by undo


Ok, let me spell this out for you so that you understand.

Religion as an abstract construct cannot do anything, it cannot be evil, it cannot be good, it is just a imaginary construct.

Religion from then on can be manipulated by people who preach to others. Now, those individuals preaching the religion can do with it what they will, they can preach a moderate version, expounding on virtue, charity, and goodwill. Or, they can use that religion to nefarious ends, and preach bigotry, hate, and intolerance.

The participants in the religion, the believers, at first obviously don't know anything about this path to god, all they know is, for whatever reason, this path to god seems to speak to them, so they begin following whichever religion, now who they go to is also a personal choice, they can either listen to the person preaching the moderate version, or, they can go listen to the person that is preaching the extremist version. Again, because throughout all of this, the individual still has free will. They go and do with this information whatever they want to. If they are insane, well, they might take the extremist version and go and kill people because of it.

It's not the whole religion, or even the religion itself that is to blame, it's the individual moron who decided that he was going to listen to the ass hat that was all "blah blah blah, they are evil and corrupt! our god will wipe them off the planet! blah blah blah" that is going to go do something, again, the individual has free will and his actions are his own, and not the religion.

Not everyone that goes and listens to a priest who preaches hellfire sermons is going to go all medieval on the atheist next door. But the psychopath that was sitting next to him in that same "house of god" might.

Is it the preachers fault? Not really, the preacher is just giving a message and unless he is actually strapping the bombs on the person isn't to blame even if they have a hate filled message.

Is it the religion's fault? No, the religion itself is just a abstract construct, and cannot actually do anything. But you get enough insane people listening to an insane message in the right positions in life and you might end up in a holy war. Do you know how many psychopaths are actually in this world? It's not exactly an uncommon condition. It's just that not all of them are going to go all silence of the lambs on you.

We cannot ignore that there has been a lot of bloodshed between these three religions. It's a historical fact. But maybe now you know the reasons why.

reply to post by Quadrivium


Your entire argument is completely flawed by the simple fact that humans have free will. What you people who are touting how evil and corrupt and awful Islam is seem to forget is that humans have free will. For some reason you think that no Muslim has any free will at all.

Strange you would think that.

reply to post by whatukno


maybe now? do you think i'm 12?
listen you were the one reading people the riot act for stereotypying and then went and did it yourself. it wasn't till you clarified what you meant (as mr. o'reilly eventually did as well), did the reader finally get to see that when you say abrahamic religions are bad, doesn't mean the people are. and for every example of religious war (which is kind of an oxymoron), there's just as many based on things not related to anything religious. more people have been killed in the name of atheism, than any other world view, hands down, especially in the last century. there's no moral high ground when it comes to people wanting their world view to prevail, and to suggest otherwise by leaving them out of your deliberations, you're revealing that the stereotype is really burned into your head. brain washed, you are, brainwashed.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

Your entire argument is completely flawed by the simple fact that humans have free will. What you people who are touting how evil and corrupt and awful Islam is seem to forget is that humans have free will. For some reason you think that no Muslim has any free will at all.

Strange you would think that.

Yet it is not flawed. Yes, people have free will, but the problem is their religion is telling them it is OK to kill those who oppose then ideologically. Read through his post several times. If you cannot look at the Quran quotes and not classify them as "evil" perhaps there is somthing wrong with you. Thats like saying Hitlers "Mein Kampf" does not espouse hatred.

People have free will but people are not infallable. What better way to recruit someone to your cause than to tell them that your holy book clearly shows that by strapping a bomb to your chest and killing innocent people you will go straight to heaven with 72 virgins awaiting you.

Sura 9:5: “And when the sacred months are passed, kill those who join other gods with God wherever ye shall find them; and seize them, besiege them, and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush: but if they shall convert, and observe prayer, and pay the obligatory alms, then let them go their way, for God is Gracious, Merciful.”

Yeah, real merciful.

reply to post by undo




Er... nobody has ever been killed in the name of Atheism, ever.
That's like saying people have been killed in the name of Tall people or Fat people.


You can list all the communist dictators you like but that doesn't equate to people being killed in the name of Atheism.

I love it when people throw that gem around.

my least favorite of all stereotypes is where religion is blamed for war because the leader of said war, mentions the name of god. for all we know the guy is not even remotely religious and is just using the word god so the war can be blamed on religion. i mean, if i was a devious S.O.B, and was seeking to convince the planet that religion sucks, i'd make sure i always mentioned god right before i did something really unpopular.

reply to post by blupblup


it's a world view. you aren't born with it. it developed over time, just as any other world view does.

This quote sums up a lot of the problem with the liberal lefts mindset on these problems.

Sura 9:5: “And when the sacred months are passed, kill those who join other gods with God wherever ye shall find them; and seize them, besiege them, and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush: but if they shall convert, and observe prayer, and pay the obligatory alms, then let them go their way, for God is Gracious, Merciful.”

Now, if i post that, which is a direct quote from the Quran, many will say, "Oh! Its a religious text and you are to read between the lines, not take it literally."

However if i made the same statement and claimed anyone who does not follow Christianity should be hunted in the same manner, can you imagine how many people would claim im hateful? I do not understand the double-standard. Its like many people in the west are so afraid to look evil in the eye and call it evil i dont know where this mentality came from but it is handicapping us. The next time terrorists strike at the west, the supplicating Obama administration will probably appoligize for more not dieing.

reply to post by nightbringr


i think protoplasmic traveler comes closest in explaining this particular aspect in his thread "all roads lead to rome". it's an attempt to muster up an ideological war between the various ideologies, foremost targets being abrahamic religions. he suggests, and i think he's right, that the premise is to get them to fight each other. and how do you do this ? ever heard that up is down and down is up. good is evil and evil is good. black is white and white is black? same idea. it can be an useful tool as it confuses the hell out of everybody

Bill O'Reilly is invited to appear on a national TV show called "the View". The title of which, one would assume, means that all views, contrarian or agreeable, are welcome. Or so the shows hostess' would have you believe...uh-huh, riiiiight...

So, the aforementioned gentleman expresses his view, contrarian as it was...and loe, the hostess', two of 'em anyway, stomp off in a self righteous snitt... The third grade is still alive and well, it would appear.

So, the View welcomes all views so long as it conforms, at least to Goldbergs/Behars cases, to the views of the hostess'. This isn't the first time the view has attempted an ambush. Nor, I'm sure, will it be the last. That it backfired so magnificently only makes it more amusing...

Shouldn't be on TV? Since when? Last I heard, first amendment rights hadn't been reduced to only a certain sort that agree with a particular political persuasion... You don't like O'Reilly's opinion? That really is too bad, 'cause he's entitled to voice it. Just as you're entitled to voice yours.

Freedom of expression. If one voice is stifled, for whatever reason, all voices are stifled. Y'all might want to remember that...

Originally posted by christinaV
reply to post by nightbringr

 

70% of americans are against the mosque??? i was never polled about this, and nobody i know told me they were ever polled about this. where did he get this fact from? a poll on his website?

Oh! Im sorry, you and you alone are the voice of the American people! Your friends also and the people you know. Since you werent asked of COURSE the poll is flawed!

Here is the poll as per your request.

www.cbsnews.com...

I encourage you to actually look through it, very professionally done imo. Oh snap!

You will notice this is not Fox but the left leaning CBS.

reply to post by _BoneZ_



I demand a rematch- a CAGE match. All of these people, Baba Wawa included, are so caffeine or adrenaline or God-Knows-what, hopped up, I can't think of a more suited group. The best that could happen would be that it devolve into a scratching, hair pulling, spitting row. At least then, there would be some entertainment value for the "reality tv" crowd.
I'd still rather pluck out my eyes than watch any of them. I'll never be that desperate for something to do.

I am no fan of Bill O'rielly at all, I think the guy is a puppet for TPTB and the most obnoxious moron on t.v. today.How someone has not physically rearranged his face yet is beyond me.I've seen the way he talks to people and demeans them, all the while acting smug and superior.Trust me I'm not a violent person , but that moron wouldn't last two seconds in a room alone with me.But we all need to remember he is just a puppet, a high paid puppet , who will say whatever he is told to say and thats it.He has no view, no opinion of his own.He tows the republican line no matter how obsurd it is.remember people, he is a payed puppet.But at the same time Joy Baher is by far the worst example of a liberal puppet on t.v. today.This woman is a joke.She has the personality of a wet cardboard box.Where the hell did she come from?Really.She wasnt even on my radar until O'bama got into office.Now I see her smug face eveywhere.I cant believe everyday people all over the U.S. cheer and yell and look up to these hollow cutouts, who are only there to warp and twist the minds of anyone who is gullible enough to listen. Everytime I hear her voice spewing the latest liberal dogma of the day , I literally want to vomit.She will spew whatever democratic nonsense her handlers want her to say.She and that cackling gang of braindead washed up overpaid ninnies reading from cue cards while acting like they have their hands on the pulse of the nation.What a joke.The fact that people are even arguing about these puppets and whose puppet is better boggles my mind.Can you people see that there is no left, no right.All these chuckleheads work for the same people, and millions of people eat it up like candy.I weep for the future. Peace.