Choosing Right or Left a test of the human soul?

Forget for moment that both sides take you down a road that leads to lock-down of the state and expansion of the empire.

It seems to me that when the Right continually supports war, opposes the idea that their heard-earned money goes to help people on welfare or healthcare, but sees no problem with those tax dollars going to help kill people in other countries... that we're looking at a major spiritual test.

I mean in general... it seems the Right is okay spending money if it's to be used to kill people... but opposed to spending money on things like healthcare or welfare to help people... The Right covets their money so.... but are willing to make exceptions for death and power.

I know it's the ATS thing to say both sides are equally bad, but when I'm having a discussion with an individual and he's telling me that torture is okay, invading countries is okay, we should consider bombing Iran... but welfare and healthcare is bad... And then, to top it all off, the guy claims to be a Christian... I'm just thinking... WTF, is this a test???

I'm an agnostic, but the more I hear the more I wonder if this Right vs Left is a test of us as humans... of our souls, and what we believe is the path to a better future... And which side do we gravitate more towards... Which side is your heart on? Anger, aggression, violence, anti-equality based on personal beliefs? Or peace, diplomacy, environment, and helping people??

Anyone else agree? I would really like to hear the spiritually-enlightened side of the Right.

reply to post by spiritualzombie


I agree with you that its a horrible thing to do to spend money on war but not on helping humanity, but do you really think the left is any better? The democrats and the republicans both have one thing in common, they aren't out to advance the human race, they are out to advance their career. It doesn't matter whether it's the war, or the "healthcare" bill. It's not helping anyone but them and their special interest groups.

And I hope I'm mis-understanding you and you're not saying that you think voting for a democrat proves that you have a good soul. That would be utterly ridiculous. Want to pass a test of the human soul? Steer 100% clear of politics and give to charity with your own money, or volunteer, or just help somebody out. Don't let the government suck up all the country's wealth in the name of something nice sounding like healthcare or welfare. It's not what you think it is.

Originally posted by spiritualzombie
Anger, aggression, violence, anti-equality based on personal beliefs? Or peace, diplomacy, environment, and helping people??

Both Left and Right are characterized by the former. Right is open about it while Left is clandestine (but can be uncovered through study of economics (showing why their utopian ideas, if implemented by governments, necessarily lead to the opposite of their intended effects) and history (giving plenty of examples to confirm)). Thus I would call the Left slightly more evil on that note.

The spiritual ideas of the Left need to be implemented by individuals. No collectivist coercion. Else, there will be no progress for mankind in that department.

Since those most interested in power have the least scruples, government will never be more moral than the overall morality of the subjects. If a civilization is populated with the amoral, it will crumble, and no well-meaning politics will save it. Government is not a substitute for morality. It's closer to being a reflection of our collective dark sides.

I should add that I do not consider a person's politics alone an indicator of the nature of their soul. There are too many complicating factors for any "soul litmus-test" to be anything but a demonize-those-who-disagree-with-me fest. The only way to judge a person is to get to know them.

I used to think the Left were environmentalist and humanitarian, but now I realize that they're just a little bit less openly neo-con and NWO.

Reply to post by spiritualzombie

That only works if you buy into the respective parties lifestyle marketing.

Want to seem outdoorsy? Buy a Jeep.

Sensitive and outdoorsy? A Subaru.

Wanna appear all peace and lovey? Vote Democrat.

Wanna appear powerful and respectable? Vote Republican.

Wanna stop being a damn sucker and think for yourself? Dont support statist authoritarian murdering thieving garbage no matter how much you think you like the package it's wrapped in.


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Guys, please understand, I'm not talking about the corruption at the top... I'm talking about the personal choices of the people at the bottom... Do you support war, anti-equality, tend to side with Big Oil over environment?

Think of it this way... one guy asks you for 5 dollars so he can go feed his family... another guy asks you for 5 dollars so he can go buy alcohol... even if both guys are planning to really use the funds for drugs... it says a lot about you as an individual which guy you give your $5 to... because you are indicating which sides value system you support...

I would really like to hear examples of the spiritually enlightened side of the Right.

Reply to post by spiritualzombie

All it says about you is what sucker story gets your money. That's it.

If you want to be an environmentalist go ahead and be one. You dont need to join some group or even cling to a belief any larger than the one you have. Just go off and do what you think is right.

Right or left just corrals the suckers. You are an individual.


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I've tried many different points of view. I was tried Liberalism, Socialism and Libertarianism. So I know the point of view of each side and so I can honestly say that I feel perfectly happy right here in the Middle.

I am generally a Conservative Democrat, I support the welfare state but believe it has become too large. I agree with regulations but feel like they have gone too far, same thing with lawsuits. I agree that government needs to keep morality in society and culture, but don't think we should enforce our personal views on people. I support Civil Unions as a compromise to Gay Marriage. I support a Public Option for health care, lower taxes and more states' rights. I support NATO and war to help friends, but diplomacy should always be first.

According to how you categorize it though I am on the Left.

reply to post by spiritualzombie


well man as a right winger im here to say this....................

we dont like war but if we just sit here and bury our heads in the sands someday the crap hits the fan.......

case in point pearl harbor,case in point 9-11...............what we right wingers see that there is a price to be paid and we dont pay that price happily or gladly its just someone has to pay it if we do nothing at all there is no country and there are no people.............someone has to do it.........

when it comes to welfare even we know there is a need but when the left steals from peter to pay paul thats what we have a problem with............stealing from people who pay taxes and give-GIVE it to someone else who isnt paying taxes.................the welfare systems is massively abused........taking something from the productive part of society and give to someone who isnt............going on welfare is too easy it should be discouraged and it should be so bad that people will never want to get on it in the first place.............that is what we dont have now its like people will get cut finger and say oh boy i get to file for welfare.

if you think welfare is so great try living in on it..........i can say with all certaintiy that all those people who push for welfare do not even see the inherent evilness of what they do......................those people live in poverty......those people are being kept down..........and their futures are no better than any of their yesterdays............we are not hearltess zombies who want to give them the shaft..............we want an alternative for them..........and help them become independent.............................

heart and souls really now the way i see it the left has no soul or heart every single thing they do is pure evil your free to disagree but when you take away the power of the individual that is heartless and souless

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

All it says about you is what sucker story gets your money. That's it.

If you want to be an environmentalist go ahead and be one. You dont need to join some group or even cling to a belief any larger than the one you have. Just go off and do what you think is right.

Right or left just corrals the suckers. You are an individual.

 

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This sounds like a cynical view to me.... so basically what I'm hearing is there are no spiritual-enlightened examples of current Right wing values....

I mean the Left can say we support the environment, they can say gays should be treated equally as everyone else, and many people on the Left will tell you we need to stop invading these countries, not for money reasons, but because we're murdering people and it's wrong...

Maybe that's a sucker argument... but are you telling me the only sucker arguments the Right has are based on cynicism, fear, and aggression?

reply to post by spiritualzombie


I'm trying to understand what you're asking, but I don't see anything spiritually enlightened about allowing yourself to be deceived.

Of course helping people is better, but many people on the Right are aware that when their money gets stolen from them by the gov't, it isn't going to the poor.

That's the only reason anyone is against those kinds of programs.

Well I think the problem is the way your asking the question. You said...
"Do you support war, anti-equality, tend to side with Big Oil over environment?" In order I would address all of these questions. I don't know if you are aware how "loaded" all those questions sound to the ear.

"Do you support war,"

Well no one really supports War they might however support the cause of the war.

"anti-equality,"
Which side is Anti Equality?

"tend to side with Big Oil over environment?"

Who is siding with either? It is an economic decision based on the needs of the population, for food, electricity, transportation, jobs etc, not a Oil vs. Environmental Decision.

reply to post by spiritualzombie


I think most Americans are really somewhere in the middle, we're a nation of centrists with a very vocal fringe on either side. The ones pushed to extremes are the ones who enjoy being spoon fed by talking heads on the news and basically adopt whatever political platform is espoused by their favored party or politician. That's the real danger I perceive in the party system, it tends to encourage intellectual laziness. Rather than make up their own minds people are more inclined to hop on the party platform bandwagon.

The only real test that politics puts on the soul is this: If you're active in politics there's a good chance you have no soul...

Reply to post by spiritualzombie

What?

Now you're just ignoring posts and stating your own beliefs as though they were applicable to the post which you are responding.

There is no connection whatsoever to my post and your response.

Here's an enlightened idea of the "right": government has no business recognizing or not recognizing any interpersonal relationships whatsoever.

Is that what you want? I dont get it.


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reply to post by neo96


I grew up on welfare... raised by a single mom who wasn't getting any child support. I didn't realize at the time why my lunches at school were free, I thought I was just a good student I also didn't realize why we couldn't get all the tasty sweets at the grocery store, and I viewed those food stamps as fun play money...

But my mom went through school, earned a degree, and by the time I was in 3rd or 4th grade, welfare was a thing of the past, and she had a good paying job to support us, still without any child support.

I now have a great paying job and a decent education....

I've seen welfare... I think it's a great thing that any great country should be able to do for its citizens...

What I don't like is the assumptions about the people who are on it.

reply to post by spiritualzombie


welfare is such a great thing??????

an $800 dollar check per month and $200 bucks for food for the rest of their lives is a "great thing"

and how many people out there who just sit there not bothering to goto school and earn a degree....how many just pop out more children to stay on it..................

you dont like assumptions perhaps you just dont like the truth for every 1 who tries to get off it there are thousands who dont.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Hey man, I'm not trying to ignore any one person's post... And I'm not trying to be some moral authority on this...

I'm just saying it seems like we're at this place where the Right predictably supports war, opposes equality, supports big oil, opposes environment, opposes healthcare, opposes welfare.... I mean, it seems like every major moral issue that comes up... The Right find a way to argue for the side which would seem like the unethical side.

Like corporations being people, or racial profiling in Arizona, or wanting to bomb Iran, or being okay with pre-emptive invasions, hating Muslims and gays....

I'm just trying to step back for a moment, look at the issues and it seems to me that I never hear the Right argue for the side of peace and equality...

reply to post by neo96


Welfare could be a lot better, I agree... so if you're saying it's not good because it doesn't pay people enough you'll get no argument from me... but if you tell me those people are lazy and don't deserve the help, and why should your tax dollars go to lazy people, that's the problem I have, and that's when I defend Welfare as being a good and necessary thing...

for every 1 who tries to get off it there are thousands who dont.

Is that figure accurate?

reply to post by spiritualzombie

I thought the left and Obama wanted to pull out of Iraq and send more to Afghanistan and Ron Paul Darn near the Rightest of the Right wanted to pull all the troops back home and say "F it" Let em work it out themselves. Again whats with the equality talk and the right? You dont get any more conservative than the libertarian party...how do they not want equality?

Reply to post by Punisher75

Apparently liberty for all isnt equality.

Equality only comes about when there is an oligarchy distributing what it decides is necessary for living to the serfs.


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