What has the US done to tackle RAPE?

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Let's move on, it seems you have a defensive attitude towards American criticism. Criticism is not bad, it is there for you to debate and discuss and improve what ever which is being criticized.

The above being said, what if the culture says don't listen to your parents?

Parents can't control every move of their kids, or are you suggesting that parents should follow their kids where ever they are?

What about school?


Children spend more time at school (away from home), than with parents.

Keeping the above sentence in mind, are you suggesting culture is not important?

On the contrary I welcome open and fair debate about the United States and what we do in the affairs of the World. What I have issues with are your topics and the way you obfuscate around your own question to directly blaming the United States for whatever injustice you have an issue with on that day.

I am proud I live in a culture, and country, where if a man rapes a woman, he is innocent until proven guilty. I am proud that I live in a culture and country where evidence can be shown to convict the male.

I am proud I live in a country and culture that doesn't ignore a woman's rape because she must have dressed inappropriately and brought it on herself. I am proud I live in a country and culture where a man can't accuse a woman of adultery with no evidence to support it other than his accusation.

And again you sidestep the questions. If you have such issues with Western Culture, then why did you leave your home country near the middle east and move to new zealand?

If America is the problem, as you claim for everything, then by all menas, lets here your solutions to the problem.. How would you fix it? Please share with us.

Originally posted by oozyism
This thread is suppose to find a solution to the rape problem which is related to the American law and American culture.

Then perhaps you should stick to that instead of blaming the US for everything under the sun. Neither of your last two replies had anything to do with finding a solution to rape, which by the way is impossible on a grand scale, and everything to do with yet another 'attack the US' thread.

We have laws against rape and there are consequences if you are tried and convicted. That is what we're doing to 'tackle rape'. Just like most other countries on this planet. The problem, as I already stated, is that many reported rapes and assaults are fake while many real rapes and assaults aren't reported. The law works, but only if true rapes/assaults are reported and if women who aren't truly victims stop making false reports.

Rape and sexual assault is not purely a US problem. To play it off like it is is like asking what China has done to tackle poverty, or what England has done to tackle starvation. It exists in every country, every culture, every area of the globe. The only difference is whether that particular area/culture/country recognizes a woman's (or on some occasions a man's) right to not be forced into sexual activities and whether that area/country/culture doles out consequences to the perpetrator.

It has nothing to do with music, tv, clothing, video games, or whatever else you hate about the US that you'd like to blame it on. It has everything to do with some men and women believing that they can take whatever they want and believing that they have every right to force themselves on someone else. To pretend otherwise is dishonest and completely ridiculous. There is no ultimate solution to rape. It has existed since the beginning of time and will continue to exist until the sun explodes and we are nothing more than a footnote in the history of the universe.

reply to post by oozyism


The US socially made any form of sex a no no, thus people are more inclined to do it.
And that's why the porn industry makes so much money off of us.
And that's why we have super-obsessive molestors that think about this stuff 24/7.

The US also likes to categorize genders, depending on the film company having the woman always being saved by the man at some point, or visa versa. And that's why we have crazy people wanting to dominate others any way they can. And that's why we have rapists.

My theory: money.

reply to post by ohsnaptruth


What the hell? Porn industry? Is not run by the government, is not just in the United States, and has no bearing on the question the OP asked:

What can be done to stop rape.

Now, if you are answering the other question he posed, which is whats wrong with the world, then your answer involving the US would be acceptable and correct under the Ooozyism school of thought and blame


Edit: Just now noticed he changed the name of the treat to include the US, instead of the original title what has been done to tackle rape

reply to post by ohsnaptruth

The US socially made any form of sex a no no, thus people are more inclined to do it.

I would disagree with that statement. Look around at the pop culture in the US. It is true that it is fairly sexual.

And that's why the porn industry makes so much money off of us.

See?

The US also likes to categorize genders, depending on the film company having the woman always being saved by the man at some point, or visa versa. And that's why we have crazy people wanting to dominate others any way they can. And that's why we have rapists.

What? We have rapists because in Hollywood either a man saves a woman or a woman saves a man? I would like a little clarification here. Also, for some reason I smell:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d0199bca08ec.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Jenna


Firstly I would like to say once again why I chose the US, as I said previously many times over and yet you refuse to suck it in:

Rape and sexual assault is not purely a US problem. To play it off like it is is like asking what China has done to tackle poverty

The US is invading countries and claiming their own system and culture is better off. Why did the US invade Afghanistan + Iraq? They usually talked about women's right, the injustices within the society etc..

So for US to use such propaganda to invade countries, it needs to perfect itself first, and make itself an example. That is when I will happily accept US police state, and US invasions + occupations.



The laws which you are talking about obviously don't work, at least to the extent it is suppose to? Am I right? Yes there are consequences for rape, but why would someone care about the consequences, if it is so hard to convict someone?

That is why I bring the culture issue, and say that culture plays a huge role in hiding the rape, and refusing accountability and refusing justice for the victims/

Two possibilities, either make the punishments extremely harsh, that way people won't even think of committing such a crime.

Or keep the punishment soft, but change the culture to make it easier to distinguish between raper and the victim.

Originally posted by oozyism
The US is invading countries and claiming their own system and culture is better off. Why did the US invade Afghanistan + Iraq? They usually talked about women's right, the injustices within the society etc..

So for US to use such propaganda to invade countries, it needs to perfect itself first, and make itself an example. That is when I will happily accept US police state, and US invasions + occupations.

Right. So you have no interest whatsoever in your own topic then? Would have been much easier to just start a thread about this if that's what you want to talk about instead of pretending you're talking about rape and sexual assault.

Yes there are consequences for rape, but why would someone care about the consequences, if it is so hard to convict someone?

For the same reason some care about the consequences of murder, bank robbery, and grand theft auto. For some the consequences are enough of a deterrent that they never commit a crime, for others they simply don't care what the law says and will do as they like regardless of the consequences.

That is why I bring the culture issue, and say that culture plays a huge role in hiding the rape, and refusing accountability and refusing justice for the victims

Finally. Now this is a relevant and valid position, I don't completely agree with it but it is relevant to the topic you started and gives a starting point for an actual discussion.

Society is really very confusing. On one hand, no one wants to take responsibility for anything. Everything bad that happens is always someone elses fault and sadly parents don't teach their children to take responsibility for their actions anymore. On the other hand, there is a stigma attached to rape that makes the victim believe that it's somehow their fault they were attacked and that they were the ones who did something wrong. It's a complete contradiction and makes absolutely no sense to me, but that's how it is.

Two possibilities, either make the punishments extremely harsh, that way people won't even think of committing such a crime.

Or keep the punishment soft, but change the culture to make it easier to distinguish between raper and the victim.

Neither option will work. Increasing the punishment will do nothing to deter people from breaking the law who aren't already deterred from doing so. As for changing the culture, it's not that rapist and victim aren't easily distinguishable from each other it's that false charges are made while real victims don't report the crime. What needs to happen is that the stigma attached to being a rape victim needs to be removed so that if a person is raped they report it, while those who make false claims should be dealt consequences for filing a false police report.

reply to post by oozyism


You choose the US because you have issues with our foreign policy, our military, our culture, our ability to accept more than one idea, and more than one religion. You have done whatever you can in almost every thread to bring whatever the topic is around to the United States, blaming us for whatever you perceive as the latest injustice.

We don't invade countries to instill our culture or values. Iraq was a mistake being it had nothing to do with 9/11 and terrorism, and we have stated as much. Afghanistan failed to turn over Bin Laden, and decided to stand with him. To get technical, the Taliban were not even the recognized government of Afghanistan, being they took control in a coup a few years prior (Surely you remember this, there were images of the Taliban blowing up ancient sculptures carved into the side of a mountain because it was not Islamic).

The general sentiment of the people in the US is to bring our troops home and let you fend for yourself. I am more and more in favor of this policy.

The laws which you are talking about obviously don't work, at least to the extent it is suppose to? Am I right? Yes there are consequences for rape, but why would someone care about the consequences, if it is so hard to convict someone?

Our laws do work. We use whats called an adversarial legal system, and everyone is presumed innocent until the state proves it case. This is in place to force the State to play fairly and justly with the people it represents. It allows for the people to have recourse and redress of grievances against the Government, both from a criminal and civil aspect.

Our system is not perfect. No system is perfect. Compared to other systems, I will be more than happy to take my chances with our legal system. I don't really care to live in a system that will put a woman to death with no evidence, or cut off someones hand because they stole something other than food. Or have a verdict given, only to have it over rode by a group of elders who want their opinion heard instead of established law.

The eye for and eye bit does not work, and only leads to being blind and toothless.

That is why I bring the culture issue, and say that culture plays a huge role in hiding the rape, and refusing accountability and refusing justice for the victims/

Again we go back to personal accountability and not culture. In most states its against the law to rape your wife. Can your culture say the same? If a female in western culture goes to the police and says she was raped, it will be investigated, and she will not be dismissed because of the way she dressed.

A culture that treats women as second class citizens; does it not cause that culture to force the women to not report these rape issues? Coming forward with an accusation of rape is a lot of time more dangerous than just not reporting. How can a culture think its ok to pass judgment on people that end up as death or mutilation while evidence is ignored, personal opinion that flies in the face of established law is substituted. Should we go down the road of non Islam groups within your culture and legal system and the issues they face? Even thought to Quran allows for other religions, to treat them fairly and to help them out, provided they don't recruit new members. Yet these tenets are regularly ignored because someone wants to issue a fatwa, ignoring law and cultural practices.

I for one would rather live free knowing something could happen to me, rather than living scared of everyone around me.

We can talk about how a family can forgive a person sentenced to death under Islam, thereby sparing his life, while at the same time we can show this being ignored, and people being dragged out onto a soccer field and killed anyways.

Two possibilities, either make the punishments extremely harsh, that way people won't even think of committing such a crime.

Or keep the punishment soft, but change the culture to make it easier to distinguish between raper and the victim.

So in other words Western culture should adapt to what... Islam? There is nothing wrong with harsh penalties, provided there are procedures in place to ensure all evidence is heard and the judge is impartial, and there is an ability to appeal the decision to ensure justice, and not revenge, is actually met.


One of the harder concepts people have with the West is our Culture, our Law, and our religions are separate. Islam is not only a religion, but a way of life, and a set of legal rules to follow. It spells out what you can and cannot do, and to those who choose that faith, that's their thing and I respect that. In the US we cannot have an established State religion. People of all faiths, Jew, Christian, Hindu, Islam, all are free to practice their faith, and are protected by law to ensure they can.

Our Laws are passed by the people representatives, signed into law by their elected leader, and enforced by various agencies. We have a separate Judicial that can review, strike down etc said law. Our laws are not based on religious doctrine though and I thank god for that every day.

If we enforced the Bible, the Quran or the Torah strictly, there would be no one left on this planet. From planting different crops side by side, to touching the skin of a pig, to wearing cloth made from 2 different sources to working on the sabbath.

In the end, the only thing we have left is personal responsibility. The interest we take in our surrounding, our friends, our families. Talking to children and being apart of their lives growing up, correcting them when they are wrong, teaching them right, and above all, teaching them acceptance that people will be different, and there is nothing wrong with this. Teaching them respect, for themselves, their families, and for others they come in contact with.

If such harsh penalties, as you argue, would act as a deterrent, strong culture in those beliefs, then why are people killed in countries that use that system? If a system says if you do this you will be killed, with no due process, no appeals, and barely any evidence, why would you think its a deterrent?

Without personal responsibility, we accomplish nothing, and blame each other for everything that appears unjust, and as we can see, it doesn't work.

And again I ask the question.. If your culture, your religion, your way of life is so much better than the Western Culture, why did you leave your home country near the Middle East and move to New Zealand? Everything you claim is wrong with the world, you are living in the middle of it.

reply to post by oozyism


Maybe you could explain why this is an issue for you. If you have been attacked in some way, then folks may understand the reason for this post. But if this has not happened to you, and you just want to help others in the world, you'll eventually learn you cannot. The only way you can stop others from doing something is to A: educate them in a way where there moral code is in alignment with all or B: Jail those who you simply don't like.

Lastly, you probably don't know what rape really is. The sexual act is no the relevant part, the metaphysical reason is that the person who is raping gains a tremendous amount of energy - energy cast off by the one the attack, and this is the reason it is done. Having said that, how are you going to stop people from stealing energy via this method.

If you want to control my freedom to protect the world from an issue that only involves you because it is the cause celeb for you today, please focus on things you can change about yourself and leave the world to its own devices. Stalin didn't like the way certain people represented his Russia and was convinced he needed to do something about it - it turned out pretty bad.

reply to post by oozyism


Here is some more info for your cause on how to fix it:

ATS Thread on this News Report
U.K. cleric: Rape is impossible within marriage

LONDON — A leading Muslim cleric has sparked controversy in Britain by claiming that it is impossible for men to rape their wives. Sheikh Maulana Abu Sayeed, who is president of the Islamic Sharia Council, told a website that "sex is part of marriage" and suggested that husbands who commit such acts should not be prosecuted.

"Clearly there cannot be any rape within the marriage," he told The Samosa website. "Maybe aggression, maybe indecent activity... Because when they got married, the understanding was that sexual intercourse was part of the marriage, so there cannot be anything against sex in marriage. Of course, if it happened without her desire, that is no good, that is not desirable."

Maybe, possibly, instead of raping their wives, they can just turn on MTV and watch Britney to let off some steam.