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What do free-masons do?

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posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 04:27 PM
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Don't know how much this pertains to the line of thinking but.....


Galileo Galilei:

The Church never condemned it (the Copernican system) at all, for the Qualifiers of the Holy Office never mean the Church.


Did the church ever officially endorse that the earth revolves around the sun? Not being a smart a**, I really don't know. But I do know they imprisoned Galileo for proving it, and didn't allow him a headstone when he died.

[edit on 30-6-2004 by Darktalon]




posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 04:30 PM
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Did the church ever officially endorse that the earth revolves around the sun?

Yup.
May I point out that the Vatican has an observatory? I bet I can find some writing in which they state that the earth does in fact revolve around the sun.

[edit on 30-6-2004 by OLMGITNHFTWS]



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 04:38 PM
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Well I kinda meant did they endorse that Galileo was right, and in such, they were wrong?

Having an obseratory doesn't mean they have offically endorsed it, it's common knowledge now, but by your thinking, they have to offically endorse it at some point, because at one point they condemed it.

[edit on 30-6-2004 by Darktalon]



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by Darktalon
Did the church ever officially endorse that the earth revolves around the sun?


Not to be a smart a** myself, but I think that on many of these questions, the Church has been split into three views:

i) The politically self-serving who are counter to "discoveries" because they don't fit their agenda.

ii) The politically self-serving who are for "discoveries" because they do fit their agenda.

iii) The truly religious who reason that the orbit of the Earth around the Sun or vice versa has little bearing on the salvation of human souls, and who are thus fairly indifferent on the matter.

Honestly, though, I'm not sure it's the church's responsibility to comment on the Earth's orbit one way or the other. Not every belief a Catholic has is required to come from the Vatican, no?



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by Darktalon
.... by your thinking, they have to offically endorse it at some point, because at one point they condemed it.

[edit on 30-6-2004 by Darktalon]


Thats EXACTLY my thinking. What would make you think they reversed their decision unless they .. say they did ... or communicate it in some way???



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 04:44 PM
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I think Alex is very close to, if not right on the money. I interpret the past events and writings much the same.



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by OLMGITNHFTWS

Originally posted by Darktalon
.... by your thinking, they have to offically endorse it at some point, because at one point they condemed it.

[edit on 30-6-2004 by Darktalon]


Thats EXACTLY my thinking. What would make you think they reversed their decision unless they .. say they did ... or communicate it in some way???
On things where they have acted in some of the most barbaric ways, inquisition, crusades, and many other things the "church" did or believed in the past that was later found to be overly wrong and ignorant, they seem to just let it slip by, and never really address it.

I would like to see you find where the Church offically endorced Galileo's findings. While I don't know for sure, I don't think they ever did, they just kinda let it go.



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by Darktalon
"Did the church ever officially endorse that the earth revolves around the sun?"

Well I kinda meant did they endorse that Galileo was right, and in such, they were wrong?

I would like to see you find where the Church offically endorced Galileo's findings.



www.dslnorthwest.net...

If you need help removing your foot just let me know. LOL


Vatican admits Galileo correct
by the Los Angeles Times, October 31, 1992

VATICAN CITY -- It's official: The Earth revolves around the sun, even for the Vatican.

The Roman Catholic Church has admitted erring these past 359 years in formally condemning Galileo Galilei for entertaining scientific truths it long denounced as anti-scriptural heresy.


[edit on 30-6-2004 by OLMGITNHFTWS]



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 08:24 PM
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Don't know about pulling my foot from my mouth, I think it actually proved my point. Yes I'm glad they did, but 1992? So until 1992 it was the Catholic Church's belief that he was still wrong? The Catholic Church still believed the earth was the center of the universe? My point was, since I have to spell it out for you. THEY KNEW THEY WERE WRONG A LONG TIME AGO.

260 years later, ya they accept their mistakes real easily. No they don't have a problem admiting their wrong. Probably the only time it's happened though, ya ok.

[edit on 30-6-2004 by Darktalon]



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 08:40 PM
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Yup the church never has admitted to being wrong easily, but they have been apologizing for a heck of a lot in recent years. Including the Crusades, The Inquisition, Galileo, as shown before, and many more.

Anyway ... so would you then say that the Catholic Church indeed supports masonry? Or that they simply allow it? Or do they condemn it? Or that religion is up to the individual and the official statement doesnt really matter? Or (enter whatever here) ... Please try to keep in mind I am merely trying to get at the truth ... many of us interpret it as condemnation by the church (some of your brethren included)... and as I understand it ... when masonry was first condemned by the church, many masons promoted the idea that religion was an individual, and/or Godly thing, and not necessarily to be dictated and enforced by men.



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 09:02 PM
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I believe that religion is up to the individual and the official statement doesnt really matter. I think things like this aren't touched because the majority really doesn't care, but the fanatics would flip if changed, so they leave it be.



when masonry was first condemned by the church, many masons promoted the idea that religion was an individual, and/or Godly thing, and not necessarily to be dictated and enforced by men.
This would probably be better answered by Alex, Masonic Light, or any of the other masons. But I believe that you have it backwards, I believe because of the Masons way of sererating religion/politices from lodge, is the reason the church took offense and it must be evil. Also at the time, anything the church didn't control was pretty much "evil" (insert wringly old guy saying EEEEEVILLLL)


df1

posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 05:50 PM
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I posted this article in the education and media section which apparently was the wrong section as it received no comments at all. Or perhaps the topic was just too coarse and real and everyone is in denial of the problem.


"The last several decades have witnessed the manifestation of an increasingly pervasive sickness in US citizens. It comes in many forms, and it is not easily detected or treated. However, it is every bit as real as the most malignant tumor or infectious virus. It has already killed many people whose only "sin" was being born in the wrong country at the wrong time, and it is certain to kill many more. It is a sickness of mind and spirit which enslaves its victim and harms many in the victim's life. This sickness is without precedent in the entire history of civilization. It may not kill as many as the worst plague or greatest war, but neither a vaccine nor a treaty has the power to stop it. This sickness has a name. It is called the "disease of affluence," and if you are an American in the year 2004, there is virtually no escaping its touch. "
www.abovetopsecret.com...

IMHO the ideals and values of freemasonry are the cure for the sickness discussed in the article, so with that in mind I am reposting the article link here in the hope that it will stimulate some discussion among masons as to how the virtues of masonry can be used to reach those in our society that so desperately need those virtues.
.



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 08:02 PM
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As I was working towards my Master Mason, my mentor gave me a book to read about the “possible” origins of Free Masonry. The book is titled “born in Blood” (I am sorry, but I forget the author). In this book the author makes the argument that Free Masonry was actually founded from the Knights Templar (another origination outlawed by the church!)

One theory why the Knights Templar were outlawed is because France owed them a lot of money, and could not pay their debit, and since the Pope at the time was French and living/working out of Southern France (NOT Rome), it was easy to create an atmosphere where the Knights Templar were outlawed. Currently the Church does not share our view on true freedom of religion (the link posted to the site that explained the Churches view PROMOTED their ‘secret society’ KOC). I was raised a Catholic, and until I started looking into the Masons never realized the true arrogance of the worlds religions. Almost EVERY religion teaches and preaches a “us or them” attitude. To prove this, just look at the current world state! Ireland, Bosnian, the Middle East, and even here at home in the US!

Through his research, the author has not found any ‘mason guild’ recorded in Europe. And since all ‘official’ guilds at this time in history had to be registered with the local ‘government’.


I am a third generation Mason and Shriner. And VERY proud to be such. My Dad (who was a police officer) was very active in his lodge but has not yet tried to ‘take over the world’!

I am glad I have become a Mason and Shriner, and am looking forward to expanding my knowledge in the Scottish Rite. I find that most people who ‘fear’ the Masons do not know what we are about, and DO NOT want to learn. Its kind of like Amway! Once you have your mind made up, NO one (even you) can change it! :HEY:

I will not give up my belief in and love for God, nor will I step of the path of enlightment in Masonry! Now I must go and sit under my heat lamp and swallow (I mean eat) some small rodent you earthlings have here!



posted on Jul, 16 2004 @ 09:30 AM
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I thought vampires said, and I quote "Blah blah"?



posted on Jul, 16 2004 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by mnmason
Through his research, the author has not found any ‘mason guild’ recorded in Europe. And since all ‘official’ guilds at this time in history had to be registered with the local ‘government’.


Sounds like "Born In Blood" by Robinson, which has been discredited. Masonic guilds were in existence in the early middle ages, which is proven by the Regius Manuscript and Gothic Constitutions. King James I chartered the Masons Company of London, which was descended from the medieval guilds. This body in turn chartered the 4 Lodges who eventually formed the Grand Lodge of England in 1717.

There is no evidence of any Templar history in Freemasonry; indeed, it appears that the Templar myth of Masonic origin was invented by the Chevalier Michael Andrew Ramsay, a French Jacobite.

Fiat Lvx.



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