I Grew up In Dulce, NM

I've said most this before on these boards. I've been a member for a few years now and people still get some of the basic facts wrong. This will hopefully clear a lot of stuff up and help get a better picture.

I actually grew up in Dulce. Went to High School there and Graduated from Dulce, HS.
I'm also a member of Jicarilla Apache Tribe and know/participate(d) in my tribal events. I no longer live there, but my parents do, as do several cousins.

I still go back at least once a year.

I have a few of my own stories. Don't really know WHAT I saw, they were always just lights. Weird lights, but lights.

I don't buy that there's a base UNDER dulce and I have a hard time even believing that it's there. Hell, I grew up there and I'm still not buying it. I've talked to Norio and emailed him back and forth a few times.

I've got pictures of Dulce from the top of Dulce rock. Pictures and even video from archuleta. It's a mountain. That's all I've ever seen when I've been up there. No Vents, no secret doors.

I've even got some pictures. One of the few black helicopter pictures that I have is lost to the multitude of computer changes.
Here is my back yard from when I was a kid. That's Dulce Rock



When you climb up Dulce Rock and look back toward my house, you'll see the infamous archuleta mesa.





Someone asked me to tell them a story. I'm not sure why. It's just a story that has no actual facts. Just anecdotal. I've heard several stories from my friends and relatives. We've always shared the things we saw because, well, it's a small town and it's entertaining. As far as I know, we're all making # up just because of the extreme boredom on the rez.

I knew Gabe Valdez (the state trooper who did the cattle mutilation investigations). I've been to his house and hung out with his kids. Great guy. He never told me about the investigations because, well, I was in High school. Why would he? When he was on TV with that special and had photos, it's was good to see him again. He doesn't live in Dulce anymore and those pictures of the cow/frog/human were crazy. The ranch the mutilations were happening on was the Gomez ranch. Another of my friends (same age) is actually a gomez and lived there when this was happening. We never talked about it.

Back to one of my stories. My dad and I were coming back from Farmington, NM late one night. Saw 6 red lights about 30 miles from Dulce. He noticed before i did. We stopped and watched them. They made a few formations in the sky. From a Cross shape to a capital "T", err.. that's all I remember. We watched them for a good 10 minutes. They moved like helicopters. Slowly and with purpose, but this is Northern RURAL NM. There wasn't a sound. This place is dead quiet. No sound of traffic, bugs, nothing. With us watching these lights, we never heard a single blip. The eventually just faded out. Didn't zip away at superfast speeds, didn't bounce around the sky, just seemed to get smaller and smaller til they were gone.

We got back in the truck and headed home. Told my mom and sisters when we got home.
That's one of my stories, take from it what you will.

Feel free to send me a message and I'll answer as best I can.

reply to post by snapmouse


Snapmouse,
My Navajo name is Bilagaana Tsah Hastiin.
I led an expedition from Albuquerque up to Dulce.
My thread is here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
And reported several stories from some of the local tribes around Gallup here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Have you ever asked Gabe Valdez about the problems up there?
I saw him up by the gas station there on Hwy 64 and Stone Lake, I can't remember the name of that gas station, do you remember the name?

Originally posted by Violater1
reply to post by snapmouse

 

Snapmouse,
My Navajo name is Bilagaana Tsah Hastiin.

I saw him up by the gas station there on Hwy 64 and Stone Lake, I can't remember the name of that gas station, do you remember the name?

You realize bilagaana is navajo for white man right? It's similar to our Apache version of Mangaani. If you're the only white guy in the room and you hear this word, they're talking about you.

The gas station on 64 and (the turn off to) stone lake? It used to be a conoco, now it's called something else entirely. Something generic.

I haven't talked to or even seen Gabe Valdez in over a decade. He doesn't live in Dulce antymore so I think he's only there in Dulce to visit. Since I don't live in Dulce anymore it's would be a long shot to acually see him. I'll have to ask my parents if they've had any contact with him. I'd love to pick his brain sometime.

It's a bit strange to shed light on this subject because it seems to take away the mystery of it. People love that the conspiracy that all the indians are 'paid off' by the government to keep quiet. Or that there's doors or vents just out in the open.

I've have to tell people several times that people on the rez ride 4wheelers, walk, cruise ALL around those mountains. If there's anything to be found, the entire town would know about it. That reminds me of another story.

About 5 years ago I was back at my friends house on the rez and his mom started telling us a story of what they called a 'troll' sighting. For some background, there's a dining hall that offered cheap lunch to school kids. Probably subsidized by the gov't.

Anyway, more than one person has verified this as happening. I wrote the word 'true' before realizing that they could just be messing with us. Remember, this is my friends mom's story so it's shaky coming from me, the third party. They were all at the dining hall when a small 'creature' came from behind the kitchen and ran through the eating area. When someone else told the story they said it was like a leprechaun. Small, fast. The story goes that it ran through the dining area. Everyone screamed and a couple of "boys" chased it down towards the river. These are grown men now so I'm sure the story has gotten fuzzier.

Just another one of those stories someone told me. It's not even the best one.

The problem with Dulce is you can't prove a negative. Nobody can prove there isn't a super secret underground base there, so the nonsense stories will never die. I can't prove there isn't a base on the dark side of the moon either.

The sad thing about Dulce is people could be spending their time investigating real bases. I ran across a website of a base in Texas on land owned by Jeff Bezos of Amazon.com fame where a known spook CN235 was photographed. N196D IIRC. Ah, here we go:
N196D

If anyone want to discuss that base, please start another thread. My point is there is real stuff to discover out there, so why waste your time on this Dulce nonsense. I haven't seen anyone write up their local "continuity of government" base. [I tried to photograph one in Napa Ca, but it is hard to see due to trees.] But all you hear about is Dulce this, Dulce that, without ever one shred of proof supplied.

Thanks for sharing that snapmouse. I too heard that story about the "troll" For a city girl moving to a town with less than 3,000 people, it was quite a shock to me. Than to hear about the trolls, underground base, skinwalkers, bigfoot etc..well, that just took the cake!

Looks like I'm not the only person from the reservation who's been here. This was posted here on a different forum. I keep hoping we'll get Dulce info down to one thread so all the dis-information could be settled. But it keeps splintering off on different unrelated topics.

Originally posted by Apache Kid
I was a Ranger on the Jicarilla apache reservation for several years and ran the Aviation Departement as the cheif of Maintanance for the Tribal helicopters. Part of my duties was to patrol the reservation both by air and by Ground Vehicle.

In all my years and many many many miles of patrol by ground and by air I saw nothing resembling any opening to any secret base nor saw anybody that wasnt supposed to be there going in and out. According to the bull# that I read it sounds like there is some huge amunt of government Vehicles going in and out of the area and that I will tell you straight up is bull#.

Its almost funny to look at these postings and see how much misinfo keeps on getting passed around. You can not go up to Archuleta mesa by yourself and start poking around or you risk getting a ticket for tesspassing. You have to be a member of the tribe to be poking around out there or be authorized to do so.

I am Apache and have many relatives that live there and I have participated in many of the Cermonies there and danced up there many times in some of our sacred dances.

For years I patroled up there on an ATV and hunted in every small trail around Archuleta mesa and other areas of the reservation so I can speak and say I know that area VERY well.

I never saw any entrance to anything discribed nor did I see these so called secret cars running around.

Dulce is a Very remote reservation way up in the mountains for the most part with an elevation starting in the town of over 7500 feet in elevation. it is right on the Colorado and New Mexico borders in the Center of the state. There is a river that runs behind the town Called the Navajo River and up from that is Archuleta mesa. It goes to the very top of a Canyon that is called "Bigfoot Canyon" by the locals there .......I have some really interesting stories about that....but thats another subject.

The majority of the area there is all Natives and their family and any outsiders that are white or any other color pretty much stick out like a sore thumb. If you are not Apache and from the area pretty much everybody knows who you are. The towns population or I should say the entire tribe is only around 5000 people and pretty much everybody knows everybody elses business up there.

So the reports of strange vehicles going in and out would be definately noticed by all residents and especially people in the Law Enforcement or Game and fish...

If you would really like to go up there and poke around you can hire a Native Guide and they will gladly take you around the area for a sum of money. it is some rugged hunting and all you have to do is get ahold of the Jicarilla game and fish and they have a list of guides and their telephone numbers you can contact them about.

I will say that I personally never saw a UFO in that area........but I have seen first hand pictures of the Cattle mutilations that were going on there and Know the lead investigator from that and we talked about it extensivly.

I know of many residents there that have seen first hand of many UFO sightings there but I can not say that I ever saw one in the years that I was up there. During the night time because of the altitude y ou can see every star in the heavens. You can see satelites flying over very easy. So visibility there is Very clear.

Some of the first hand stories I have heard are pretty amazing and several "Feasts" that were going on for certain cermonies had seen sightings of UFOs by Many people at once.

Is there a Base there? I really doubt it. Is there UFO activity there? I would say yes there has been sightings. Is there bigfoot there? Now that I would have to say yes to!! I have had a few encounters..

But I will have to tell a story someday about the Alien body I found on Archuleta mesa....... But I guess Ill have to put that on another thread.

I'm willing to bet I know this 'apache kid' and he knows me. Like he said. Small town.

reply to post by snapmouse


I grew up on the Bar B ranch south of Dulce...
officially we were in councilors NM (Population 24, half of those were dogs) but the cabin was some six miles back along the Largo at the start of crow canyon... Small world right???

PS ya know someone killed the old man who ran the trading post down in Counselors???
to bad, he was a nice old guy...

Funny thing is growing up there I got tons of ghost stories but no UFO ones...
in Fact I was living in Albuquerque when I first heard the Dulce base story a clam made by some AF officer who also claimed to have filmed UFO's hovering over the Manzano Mountain Bunkers, a real underground base back in the day (1980's)

Look man....(to OP)

If people like you keep coming here and spreading FACTS around like this, then people on the fringe out there are gonna have a tough time selling books and DVDs.
Maybe you should go back to that little world called "reality" and let us free-thinkers be. Now, somebody hand me my foil hat and fire up the Star Gate!

Someone killed the old guy at counselors? #, that sucks he was a cool old guy and always a stop when heading to or from Farmington.

I'm actually a bit surprised at the lack of questions that hasn't happened. Ah well, like TX said, there's no fun with facts.

Unfortunately, all I have are stupid stories. If you want to hear about the 'weird' things I've seen and heard, well, that's all dependent on my perception of weird. Isn't it?

I first read about the dulce papers a few years ago. Can´t remember were but i don´t recall any mentioning of an entrance in dulce. As far as i remember the access was executed through an underground tube shuttle? If that´s the case it would certainly explain why none can find an entrance in/near dulce.

Snapmouse, i like weired things :-)

As the years go by things become more and more accessible through the web. Speculation regarding bigfoot beeing related to the UFO topic seems to pop up every now and then. Is dulce a hot spot for bigfoot observations?

there is some kind of structured opening there....i have a google pic of it! it's from a previous ATS thread....it has 60 foot beam members by the dozen crashed in together over an opening on top of the mesa.

reply to post by GBP/JPY


Just an FYI
there are a lot of oil wells on and around the Jicarilla Rez.. All through the four corners region really, coal seam country.... El Paso oil and gas used to be one of the big players out that way, I guess it's mostly Meridian drilling nowadays...

anyway it's not uncommon to find a rig stacked out, (unused and laying on the ground) Out there. Unless you knew what you were looking at one of these old rigs could look like some abandoned Mil equipment Ya know...

reply to post by GBP/JPY



I been wondering about that to...
Somebody should place cameras all over that place for a couple of years..

first of snapmouse I hope you don't think I was picking on you in the other thread I just missed this one , my bad

so if I read this thread right there is nothing going at Archeuleta except some 'trolls ',weird craft,soldiers with weapons out 'camping", strange metals in the soil , electro magnetic anomalies and dead aliens bodies. Typical small town stuff,okay I by that

I'll move along ,clearly there is nothing to see here

I did have a question ,but ....

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
first of snapmouse I hope you don't think I was picking on you in the other thread I just missed this one , my bad

no problem, It happens.

The problem with all these stories is that it's ALL just stories. There's no pictures of a troll. Apparently that happened in the 70's or something. The investigation by UFO hunters turned up nothing. It's all conjectural and tied loosely together.

We have no evidence of the soldiers out camping. I haven't heard of any strange metals in the soil. Is this another story? I'm more than willing to share my stories, obviously, but it's still just that.

The only thing concrete from my point of view is the stuff Gabe Valdez had. The cattle mutilations and the photos of the hybrid fetus. If you don't know what I'm talking about, watch the UFO hunters episode where they talk to him.

There was a 'gas buggy project' where nukes were detonated underground back in the 60's(?). I drove by the sign a hundred times about 20 miles west towards farmington and never bothered to take a picture or memorize it.

There were cattle mutilation investigations happening in the 80's. There were sightings. I've seen lights. There are a number of bigfoot sightings but I've never even come close to having one of those stories. When I was in HS seemed to be the busiest time.
As I got older I spent less time hanging outside and just watching the sky. Conveniently, since it was the 80's. I didn't have access to a camera and even though we were one of the few families to have a video camera, it was one of those big bulky ones. I wasn't much for carting that thing around.

I have an old video of when my dad took a trip up to Archuleta mesa. He filmed from up there for about 10 minutes. It's the most boring video ever. Building, tower, sky, rocks, trees, back to tower, back to trees etc.

I'm more than happy to give a history of the tribe as I remember it. I'm more than happy to tell people the stories I'VE heard. There is still a distinct lack of evidence in all this.

Believe me or not. I have seen army helicopters in the area. I have seen the side of Dulce Rock light up when I thought I was watching an airplane thousands of feet in the sky. I've also heard greater stories than mine.

well now we're communicating again ! So my question is if nothing is going on why the legends? This I feel can be answered by telling us as much of the local ancestral lore as you feel comfortable telling

I am endlessly fascinated by this and I know we both have lives so no pressure

peace Mrs Blonde

reply to post by snapmouse


If you start telling your stories, you can be sure im listening, im sure im just as fasinating as blonde is I read the dulce book The book and I must say some of the things going on in that base is so horrid... its just hard for me to belive that there is no truth to a story that long with so much data... Im not surprise you cant find any evidence or your friends and family have not heard anything about this base, why should they ? its hidden from sight deep underground, and connected to other D.U.M.B´s with high speed trains.. see now I go again with the talk ... I wish I lived in US I would surely go camping there with my HD-cam and nightvison for weeks

I'm more than happy to give a history of the tribe as I remember it. I'm more than happy to tell people the stories I'VE heard. There is still a distinct lack of evidence in all this.

I'd love to hear the history as well as the stories you've heard, if you felt like telling either.

2nd

posted in wrong thread

Originally posted by snapmouse

Originally posted by Violater1
reply to post by snapmouse

 

Snapmouse,
My Navajo name is Bilagaana Tsah Hastiin.

I saw him up by the gas station there on Hwy 64 and Stone Lake, I can't remember the name of that gas station, do you remember the name?

You realize bilagaana is navajo for white man right? It's similar to our Apache version of Mangaani. If you're the only white guy in the room and you hear this word, they're talking about you.

.

Yes.
It actually means "White Needle Man".
The locals gave me that name while I was stationed at a local hospital.
The stories that were told to me, while in Gallup were most remarkable. From what I saw looking up at the Black Rock airspace, there is something going on above Dulce.
I also find it interesting (even for a gobrmnt subsidized reservation), all of the new buildings and infra-structure in Dulce. The improvements go Way Beyond the financial assistance that most reservations receive.
IMHO.