Twitter ablaze with UFO sighting reports in NYC. Anyone confirm?

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Originally posted by Human_Alien
reply to post by KIZZZY

 

The problem in saying what you're saying is, one fact does NOT cancel out other (possible) facts.

Yes, we see balloons. We also see buildings. In fact, I could've sworn I saw a taxi and hot dog vendor too.

Typical scenes of NYC doesn't 'crack' the case open. It only makes for a real simpleton answer. I guess I am too deep for pure simple. Welcome to my world post-Sept 11th 2001!

I am a New Yorker. Perhaps you are looking for something that really isn't there.

As I said on another post....one person looks up and others look up to see what

that person is looking at. All any one person had to say was "UFO" and some more

people look up. That's life in "da Citay!"

What I am not quite understanding is ----why are some of you who know, in your heart of hearts--- this event was caused by a bunch of balloons, continuing to post here?
We get your position. It's been received, registered and in our data file. Do you realize you're not imparting some kind of epiphany or unique slant?

I liken this to someone who joins NASA for a Mars mission to look for life. Only he joins the team KNOWING, there's nothing to see up there.

So why are you people still here? Is the unemployment rate really that high? (oh okay, I am unemployed too.....bad example)

So please.....we thank you for shopping with us today and please be sure to pick up your lovely parting gifts. Springer? Tell them what they've won...............

Originally posted by KIZZZY

Originally posted by Human_Alien
reply to post by KIZZZY

 

The problem in saying what you're saying is, one fact does NOT cancel out other (possible) facts.

Yes, we see balloons. We also see buildings. In fact, I could've sworn I saw a taxi and hot dog vendor too.

Typical scenes of NYC doesn't 'crack' the case open. It only makes for a real simpleton answer. I guess I am too deep for pure simple. Welcome to my world post-Sept 11th 2001!

I am a New Yorker. Perhaps you are looking for something that really isn't there.

As I said on another post....one person looks up and others look up to see what

that person is looking at. All any one person had to say was "UFO" and some more

people look up. That's life in "da Citay!"

I appreciate your location (please tell my uncle Mario I said ciao) but I've listened to interviews.



Is this bullchit? Perhaps. Just don't know..................

Double post ------probably due to that UFO that just passed my window

Originally posted by Human_Alien
What I am not quite understanding is ----why are some of you who know, in your heart of hearts--- this event was caused by a bunch of balloons, continuing to post here?
We get your position. It's been received, registered and in our data file. Do you realize you're not imparting some kind of epiphany or unique slant?

I liken this to someone who joins NASA for a Mars mission to look for life. Only he joins the team KNOWING, there's nothing to see up there.

So why are you people still here? Is the unemployment rate really that high? (oh okay, I am unemployed too.....bad example)

So please.....we thank you for shopping with us today and please be sure to pick up your lovely parting gifts. Springer? Tell them what they've won...............

I am a member of ATS. Isn't the slogan around here to "Deny Ignorance"?

Shouldn't everyone do the research and ask the appropriate questions so

that they can somehow arrive at the truth? That is how I see it.

reply to post by Human_Alien


exactly

Originally posted by KIZZZY

Originally posted by Human_Alien
What I am not quite understanding is ----why are some of you who know, in your heart of hearts--- this event was caused by a bunch of balloons, continuing to post here?
We get your position. It's been received, registered and in our data file. Do you realize you're not imparting some kind of epiphany or unique slant?

I liken this to someone who joins NASA for a Mars mission to look for life. Only he joins the team KNOWING, there's nothing to see up there.

So why are you people still here? Is the unemployment rate really that high? (oh okay, I am unemployed too.....bad example)

So please.....we thank you for shopping with us today and please be sure to pick up your lovely parting gifts. Springer? Tell them what they've won...............

I am a member of ATS. Isn't the slogan around here to "Deny Ignorance"?

Shouldn't everyone do the research and ask the appropriate questions so

that they can somehow arrive at the truth? That is how I see it.

I get it. But some of you are saying the same rhetoric. How about someone explaining the video I just posted above. Why is this person saying something completely, not in your "balloon" favor?

Just seems you're (not you per se) ignore other angles that don't support your balloon theory. To me, that's not being a critical thinker.
So deny ignorance? Yeah but don't ignore facts though.............

Originally posted by Tholidor

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
For those of you who don't see a connection to the airports being shut down, regardless of the reason or for how long, consider this....

1) How often do airports get closed or evacuated? (google it for yourself and see.. it's rare and usually for extreme reasons)
2) How often do airports have gas leaks? (again, extremely rare)
3) How many gas leaks do you know of that would impact 3 airports? (odds are not going up, are they?)
4) How often is air traffic redirected on a completely clear night?

What are the chances that all 4 of the above could happen in the same day and same area as a mass sighting of an unidentified flying object? How many times have you seen an airport get a gas leak that causes 2 other airports to be effected, and since when does a gas leak have any effect on flight paths and landings of planes on a completely clear night? You must have enough common sense and reason to see that the odds of this being coincidental are almost too high to calculate?

Something was spotted in the skies over NYC... something also happened at the airports in the area.... These are both indisputable facts, and I believe very important ones yet they aren't being discussed together.

~Namaste

OK..one last time.......

1) Airports are rarely if ever closed or evacuated, and nothing of the sort happened last night.

2) Airports (and radar control centers) are no more or less prone to gas leaks than any other commercial structure.

3) The gas leak in question effected all the airports in the area (not just the "big 3") to a greater or lesser degree depending on the traffic density at each airport.

4) Actually, air traffic is rerouted routinely no matter what the weather. The most common reason is a change of wind direction or in some cases local anti-noise ordinances.

Last nights' gas leak effected the radar control center on Long Island - not even near an airport. The FAA, in the 60's, relocated all radar certers (ARTCC's) to locations outside the assumed nuclear blast radius of the metro areas which they serve (there are, I believe, still 21 radar control centers in the country - I worked at Los Angeles ARTCC which is located in Palmdale, CA about 65 miles from L.A.)

In short the gas leak was coincidental to the other happenings last night and is really a non-issue as far as the UFO story goes.

Can I make this any clearer?

Can you make this any clearer? It would be nice if you put this much effort into being objective and trying to argue the other side as well.... Being condescending doesn't lend well to the debate, even if your facts are accurate.

This is a conspiracy site, no? How can I be much clearer for you?? Last time I checked, most people here aren't exactly feeling like our government is composed of trustworthy individuals. That being said, I withdraw my previous comments that it was an airport and agree with you on the radar facility and that gas leaks can and do occur. Facts are facts. BUT... a radar facility is even more damning in this specific case, especially in such a way that it has an impact on several airports and a very large amount of air traffic.

You are so hunkered down in your belief that this was just coincidence, but riddle me this... Is it not possible that the radar facility was emptied out with the exception of a few scrutinized people that were told not to speak of what was about to happen over the next hour or two and who would be responsible for handling air traffic re-routing to keep planes out of the UFOs airspace? It's just WAY too coincidental, the odds of this happening on the same day, to a radar facility that would be responsible for tracking this object, are off the charts.

The fact is, we don't really know if the gas leak was a legitimate reason for what happened, so it's all speculation at this point and the object(s) are still unidentified. It seems a little TOO coincidental and convenient that control of traffic to such a large area would be given to a skeleton crew of people to maintain.

It has cover-up and conspiracy written all over it. I initially came on this thread and my first instinct was that they were balloons, so that's what I said. However, after objectively looking at both sides of the debate and all of the evidence and facts that have been presented, I changed my perspective because it makes more sense (based on pictures and videos) that what people saw were not balloons.

~Namaste

Originally posted by Human_Alien

Originally posted by KIZZZY

Originally posted by Human_Alien
What I am not quite understanding is ----why are some of you who know, in your heart of hearts--- this event was caused by a bunch of balloons, continuing to post here?
We get your position. It's been received, registered and in our data file. Do you realize you're not imparting some kind of epiphany or unique slant?

I liken this to someone who joins NASA for a Mars mission to look for life. Only he joins the team KNOWING, there's nothing to see up there.

So why are you people still here? Is the unemployment rate really that high? (oh okay, I am unemployed too.....bad example)

So please.....we thank you for shopping with us today and please be sure to pick up your lovely parting gifts. Springer? Tell them what they've won...............

I am a member of ATS. Isn't the slogan around here to "Deny Ignorance"?

Shouldn't everyone do the research and ask the appropriate questions so

that they can somehow arrive at the truth? That is how I see it.

I get it. But some of you are saying the same rhetoric. How about someone explaining the video I just posted above. Why is this person saying something completely, not in your "balloon" favor?

Just seems you're (not you per se) ignore other angles that don't support your balloon theory. To me, that's not being a critical thinker.
So deny ignorance? Yeah but don't ignore facts though.............

I am sure when that person in the video got home and found out about the event

on that day he might view it with a different pair of eyes... or not.

The fact is that YELLOW BALLOONS were released in Midtown on that day

much to everyone's surprise apparently, because they had no idea what they

were looking at up in that sky. You want to make more of it than what it is

that truly is your business. Have a good day!

reply to post by KIZZZY


o well hope you got to read my reply before the mods black flaged it .

i answered and tried to be reasonable and share a bit but hey you got to high five with the idiot who cant even come up witht a defense other then spelling and grammar happy fn halloween elvira you all are the reason no real conclusions can be reached at ats it seems

apologies for the colour discrepancy, its the best i could do!

thanks

rich

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Closing the thread? not so fast,

Ok so maybe i was wrong about earthcam but still doesn't explain the day sighting for example

UFO reports on Oct 13
www.americanchronicle.com...
www.examiner.com...
www.examiner.com...
www.examiner.com...

Thanks for posting this the photo is very cool, do you think this could be a hoax or part of a string of hoaxes? Perhaps this is the real deal ? Much better than the balloon and plane footage so far.

Citizens who witnessed something that appeared to be unusual in the sky over the Chelsea area of New York City on Oct. 13, 2010, do not seem to agree on what they saw.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6dd3d626446d.jpg[/atsimg]

Picture existed before March 11, 2008

www.wunderkabinett.co.uk...
www.wunderkabinett.co.uk.../archives/1323-The-Air-Kraken-Wakes.html

If someone wanna fix the url...

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne


Condescending? My only reason for posting anything to this thread was to point out the reality of the air traffic aspects regarding the gas leak and the facilities involved. I have done this about 4 or 5 times now, and frankly it's a bit frustrating when people make outrageous claims without having read the previous posts on the matter.

It would seem that you are laboring under some misconceptions about the impact that the slowdown at the radar center had on the areas airports. Virtually every tower in the area is equipped with what is called an ASR radar (Airport Surveillance Radar) which shows the immediate airport area including aircraft on the ground. Beyond these systems, The TRACON (Terminal Radar Approach Control) radars display multiple airports and the airspace above and around them. These are used for aircraft which are in the final stages of sequencing for landing and for a few minutes after departure - until they are handed off to the Center controllers, who manage the enroute phase of a given flight. All of these systems are capable of displaying any craft and/or object which enters the airspace for which they are responsible.

On a normal day/evening watch, the Center is staffed by about 300 controllers (plus administrative and supervisory personnel). However, on the midnight watch 25 to 30 is the typical compliment of controllers. So operating the facility with this "skeleton crew" is a routine operation - it happens every day. Granted, it's unusual to go to that configuration outside the midnight shift, but its not really a full-blown panic situation.

As for the "specially selected group of controllers" theory, I suppose it is remotely possible (and I too distrust anything the government says) however, we experienced the same type of situation at Los Angeles Center while I was there. In that particular instance, it was a telephoned bomb threat. The first that we, the frontline controllers, heard about it was when the 5 Area Supervisors were called to the Asst. Chief's desk and came back into our areas saying: "We're going to a midwatch configuration. Combine your sectors. Now....you, you and you..man the combined sector. The rest of you get out to the parking lot NOW!" We only learned what had happened after the police, bomb squad, fire department etc. started arriving.

While I was not at NYARTCC when the supposed gas leak occured, I'd be willing to bet thats just about how it went down from the controllers point of view,

If you want to read something more than coincidence into this, please feel free. But frankly, IMHO, therein lies paranoia and senseless speculation absent any sort of evidence to the contrary. Whether or not this was a staged event, this would NOT have prevented any controller at any number of different facilities from seeing an unknown object on their respective radar equipment.

I trust this answers your questions, if not I'll be happy to elaborate.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
reply to post by KIZZZY

 

The problem in saying what you're saying is, one fact does NOT cancel out other (possible) facts.

If you think about who came forward with the balloon story (the engaged teacher, students, & school superintendent), I don't think there really needs to be more investigating. What type of conspiracy would this be called?

"Evil engaged teacher and her evil students were hired by the evil government to lie, conspiracy?"

Does that make sense?

Add: Edit::
After I saw these New York UFO threads pop-up, I wanted to respond to the topic rationally. If I came running in here yelling, "You are all fools!", we couldn't have an intellectual conversation. Instead of making a complete fool out of myself, I sat back and waited to see the story play-out. Since I couldn't find an immediate explanation, I allowed some time to pass before responding. Around 11:00pm that same night, Channel 6 Boston covered the story. I went back online to recheck my facts, so I had enough supporting evidence.

You cannot yell at people for doing research, and then revealing it is something different from what you expect.

*shrugs*

It is not logical.

Ok... I respect a good debate as much as anyone, but if you people want to get down to facts, let's do this... I love how the skeptics and debunkers cherry pick their data and don't present studies that have been done with factual results that have been proven.

www.balloonhq.com...

AND

www.balloonhq.com...

So, to blow a hole in the balloon argument, let's look at some of the data here.

1) The average size of latex balloons (such as the yellow and white ones being claimed) are 11" when inflated.
2) According to the above PROVEN STUDY, these size balloons will rise at a rate of about 17ft per second.
3) At the above mentioned rate of rise, the average balloon would pop under atmospheric pressure after about 26 minutes.
4) At the elevation that these balloons would have had to be, the temperature drops approximately 6.5C for every 1000 meters. If the temperature falls to -40, it will cause the latex to freeze and crack, forcing the gas from the balloon and it would pop.
5) In those pictures, we see about 50 or so balloons tied to each string. Looking at those pictures, there is a circumference of about 15-20 feet. The average person can barely see that from the top of a 1000 ft building in NYC, so it is highly (and I mean highly) unlikely that those same balloons could be seen 5 miles up from the ground.

Given the above scenarios and the factual data and evidence I'm presenting here, it is THEREFORE IMPOSSIBLE that standard latex balloons, the kind seen in the pictures and being thrown around by debunkers and skeptics, could be what was witnessed for over 4 hours by multiple sources. That doesn't mean that some people didn't see the yellow balloons when they were released, it means that after 30 minutes, they would no longer be visible or would have popped or been carried away by wind currents which would also infer that 2 hours later, it could not be possible in any way that those balloons were the same ones released.

IF there was no wind (impossible with an approaching storm system as wind maps from NOAA clearly show), the balloons would only have stuck around for roughly 30 minutes. So, unless you're now going to say that people were continuously letting balloons go, or that they were blowing over from a neighboring county, you don't have a leg to stand on with the balloon story. There are just too many people who stood out there for way too long watching them in a single confined area in the sky for them to be balloons.

Now, unless you have better evidence to bring supporting how this is wrong, I'd appreciate if we could stop saying they were balloons and stick with the fact that they are unidentified flying objects that nobody can say for certain what they were.

~Namaste

reply to post by Tholidor


Awesome... thank you for that very enlightening explanation of things. I am glad you cleared that up for me, but I still have the same suspicion given the days events. I'm also appreciative of the idea that you can accept what I mentioned before about it being a little "less than routine" in this particular case. We're on the same page, so again, thanks for presenting your facts more clearly. Star for you.

~Namaste

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne

So... A school teacher, her students, and the school lied?

NYC UFO: Just a Bunch of Balloons?

I don't know how these people would lie. Can you prove that they lied?

Originally posted by Tholidor
reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne

 

Condescending? My only reason for posting anything to this thread was to point out the reality of the air traffic aspects regarding the gas leak and the facilities involved. I have done this about 4 or 5 times now, and frankly it's a bit frustrating when people make outrageous claims without having read the previous posts on the matter.

It would seem that you are laboring under some misconceptions about the impact that the slowdown at the radar center had on the areas airports. Virtually every tower in the area is equipped with what is called an ASR radar (Airport Surveillance Radar) which shows the immediate airport area including aircraft on the ground. Beyond these systems, The TRACON (Terminal Radar Approach Control) radars display multiple airports and the airspace above and around them. These are used for aircraft which are in the final stages of sequencing for landing and for a few minutes after departure - until they are handed off to the Center controllers, who manage the enroute phase of a given flight. All of these systems are capable of displaying any craft and/or object which enters the airspace for which they are responsible.

On a normal day/evening watch, the Center is staffed by about 300 controllers (plus administrative and supervisory personnel). However, on the midnight watch 25 to 30 is the typical compliment of controllers. So operating the facility with this "skeleton crew" is a routine operation - it happens every day. Granted, it's unusual to go to that configuration outside the midnight shift, but its not really a full-blown panic situation.

As for the "specially selected group of controllers" theory, I suppose it is remotely possible (and I too distrust anything the government says) however, we experienced the same type of situation at Los Angeles Center while I was there. In that particular instance, it was a telephoned bomb threat. The first that we, the frontline controllers, heard about it was when the 5 Area Supervisors were called to the Asst. Chief's desk and came back into our areas saying: "We're going to a midwatch configuration. Combine your sectors. Now....you, you and you..man the combined sector. The rest of you get out to the parking lot NOW!" We only learned what had happened after the police, bomb squad, fire department etc. started arriving.

While I was not at NYARTCC when the supposed gas leak occured, I'd be willing to bet thats just about how it went down from the controllers point of view,

If you want to read something more than coincidence into this, please feel free. But frankly, IMHO, therein lies paranoia and senseless speculation absent any sort of evidence to the contrary. Whether or not this was a staged event, this would NOT have prevented any controller at any number of different facilities from seeing an unknown object on their respective radar equipment.

I trust this answers your questions, if not I'll be happy to elaborate.

edit on 15-10-2010 by Tholidor because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-10-2010 by Tholidor because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-10-2010 by Tholidor because: spelling

Okay so I been following this thread for awhile now, and I'm a new member here and all, and what brought me here is this whole New York UFO incident. Here's the first piece of proof I've seen this whole time! What he's saying (from my understanding) is that the Radar would have picked up balloons. HOWEVER when FAA was contacted, they stated nothing was on their Radar, and they had no idea what it could be.

Second, this other guy has posted actual data proof that it couldn't have possibly been the balloon theory. Albeit, there could have been some people who did see the balloons, this does not explain why there were reports going on for over 4 hours! Also, you have to go to common sense for this one and you kinda gotta trust that New Yorkers and NBC, CBS, and FOX aren't stupid enough it mistake balloons for UFOs.

Originally posted by Human_Alien

Originally posted by KIZZZY

Originally posted by Human_Alien
What I am not quite understanding is ----why are some of you who know, in your heart of hearts--- this event was caused by a bunch of balloons, continuing to post here?
We get your position. It's been received, registered and in our data file. Do you realize you're not imparting some kind of epiphany or unique slant?

I liken this to someone who joins NASA for a Mars mission to look for life. Only he joins the team KNOWING, there's nothing to see up there.

So why are you people still here? Is the unemployment rate really that high? (oh okay, I am unemployed too.....bad example)

So please.....we thank you for shopping with us today and please be sure to pick up your lovely parting gifts. Springer? Tell them what they've won...............

I am a member of ATS. Isn't the slogan around here to "Deny Ignorance"?

Shouldn't everyone do the research and ask the appropriate questions so

that they can somehow arrive at the truth? That is how I see it.

I get it. But some of you are saying the same rhetoric. How about someone explaining the video I just posted above. Why is this person saying something completely, not in your "balloon" favor?

Just seems you're (not you per se) ignore other angles that don't support your balloon theory. To me, that's not being a critical thinker.
So deny ignorance? Yeah but don't ignore facts though.............

Because they believe even that news report is just a hoax, because after all that is the "most likely" explanation. It doesn't matter what evidence you present, because in the debunker's mindset the hoax is always the most likely explanation (how they calculate the likelihood is beyond me).