All 50 States Launch Investigation In Foreclosuregate, Wall Street Nightmare Becomes Real

reply to post by hillbilly4rent

Question, when the states finish the investigation and find the kink who will iron it out. Will it be locally per state or would it be on a single platform through the supreme court. Im thinking may be a 10th amendment snafu in the works as well.

If I recall one of the states, the only one fiscally sound, runs its OWN bank. I think we may be seeing more of that.

AHHhh I found the reference:

Amanda Paulson, writing in The Christian Science Monitor, quotes Arturo Pérez, fiscal analyst with the National Conference of State Legislatures, which released its survey of state budget situations in December

“Unless you’re North Dakota, you’re probably a state that has had some degree of difficulty or crisis involving finances. It’s the worst situation states have faced in decades, perhaps going as far back as the Great Depression in some states.”

“Unless you’re North Dakota” – a state with a sizeable budget surplus, and the only state that is adding jobs when other states are losing them. A poll reported on February 13 ranked that weather-challenged state first in the country for citizen satisfaction with their standard of living. North Dakota’s affluence has been attributed to oil, but other states with oil are in deep financial trouble. The big drop in oil and natural gas prices propelled Oklahoma into a budget gap that is 18.5% of its general-fund budget. California is also resource-rich, with a $2 trillion economy; yet it has a worse credit rating than Greece. So what is so special about North Dakota? The answer seems to be that it is the only state in the union that owns its own bank. It doesn’t have to rely on a recalcitrant Wall Street for credit. It makes its own....
www.webofdebt.com...

HMMMmmm If I were a state I would certainly be eyeballing North Dakota and thinking about kicking the federal reserve banks out of my state....

Candidates Across the Political Spectrum Pick Up on the Public Bank Model In the quest to find ways to divorce the well-being of their states from the financial sector, a growing number of candidates are picking up on the public bank alternative. Florida, Illinois, Oregon, Massachusetts, Idaho and California all have candidates whose platforms contain this proposed solution to the credit crisis.

A publicly-owned bank has also been proposed on the federal level. Nationalizing the Federal Reserve (which is not actually federal but is owned by a consortium of private banks) was advocated by 2008 Presidential candidates Dennis Kucinich, a Democrat, and Cynthia McKinney, the Green Party candidate. In 2009, Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz said the government would have been better off funding a federally-owned bank than doling out trillions of dollars to private investment banks and CEOs who speculated their way into bankruptcy....
www.webofdebt.com...

Reminds me of the old Chinese Curse: May you live in interesting times.

The fed may have the Congress locked up by the states may have a mind of their own and play checkmate given the mess they have made.

reply to post by burntheships


If you have been paying your mortgage to a bank that didn't write your mortgage,are they not committing a fraud on you? When I bought my home I had to sign the note along with the loan co. representative and it was notarized. For another bank to assume that loan wouldn't they have to revisit that note to show I accepted them as my creditor? Otherwise it would be what they call a "straw loan".
It looks to me that there could be room for damage suites against some of these banks for fraud. Or am I just all wet?

reply to post by burntheships

Perhaps there might be a little small amount of justice. We can hope.

Yes I hope so too. I am planning to contact the State Attorney General's Office - AGAIN. I just found our loan originator AND the lawyers office were slaps for the same practices they pulled on us. So wish me luck. Our neighbor worked in a real estate lawyer's office and said they pulled unethical practices routinely.

If everyone would get off their bums and raise holy heck about it maybe we will get some real justice this time.

It is time to remind everyone:

On May 23, 1933, Congressman, Louis T. McFadden, brought formal charges against the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve Bank system, The Comptroller of the Currency and the Secretary of United States Treasury for numerous criminal acts, including but not limited to, CONSPIRACY, FRAUD, UNLAWFUL CONVERSION, AND TREASON. The petition for Articles of Impeachment as thereafter referred to the Judiciary Committee and has YET TO BE ACTED ON.
www.uhuh.com...

Seems like this is a GOOD time to resurrect those articles of impeachment. (snicker)

reply to post by daddyroo45


You may find this useful. I can scout around and look for more info...

First, if a “lender” tries to foreclose, it will have to have the proper signed paperwork showing it has the right to foreclose. If the note transfer wasn’t recorded, the bank can’t foreclose. But this is the most fundamental part of banking, so it is entirely the banks’ fault. We know how much they love “sanctity of contracts” when it comes to bonus agreements, so the same applies here.

But it doesn’t mean the borrower doesn’t owe money. Obviously there will be records of payment and loan statements and evidence of delinquency. It will be difficult for the borrower to deny the existence of the debt and the obligation to pay. [If it is in doubt to whom the money is owed, then courts might put future payments in escrow, but it seems likely that it will be easier to establish debt/payment than foreclosure rights. Really, I don’t know, but to say the loan will be unenforceable when one can prove payments were made, doesn’t seem like it will fly in the courts.] But absent proper paperwork, a bank cannot take a house in satisfaction of the debt, so the bank will be an unsecured creditor. Once this is established as the case, if the borrower has the wherewithal to pay on say, a reduced principal balance and a lower fixed coupon, then the borrower will be in an excellent position to renegotiate the terms of the loan by offering to sign a properly documented mortgage. This may succeed where HAMP failed. I’m not saying it will be easy to sort this out, only that this has potential. .....................

Obviously, I don’t have the answer to the problem, and nothing suggested so far to courts (by the banks) is as reasonable as the above, but we’ll have to see what develops. In any case, states will insist that everyone follow the law.

www.zerohedge.com...

Also that relates back to the OP I think...

regular mortgage situations -- not just foreclosures:

The mortgage is still owed, but there's going to be a problem figuring out who actually holds the mortgage, and they would be the ones bringing the foreclosure. You have a trust that has been getting payments from borrowers for years that it has no right to receive. So you might see borrowers suing the trusts saying give me my money back, you're stealing my money. You're going to then have trusts that don't have any assets that have been issuing securities that say they're backed by a whole bunch of assets, and you're going to have investors suing the trustees for failing to inspect the collateral files, which the trustees say they're going to do, and you're going to have trustees suing the securitization sponsors for violating their representations and warrantees about what they were transferring.
Read more: www.businessinsider.com...

edit on 13-10-2010 by burntheships because: (no reason given)

reply to post by burntheships

I read all that stuff in previous posts,and it makes sense. The point I was trying to make is that it is not legal to assign a third party in a two party contract without both primary parties acceptance. If I had a car and owed money to the bank on it ,it would be a two party loan. If I let someone else make the payments in my stead that is what would be called a" straw loan" and is illegal. It seems to me that the same principal applies to a third party bank taking your mortgage money and not legally holding the papers. It would be a fraud and they should be liable for damages.

Originally posted by airspoon
This is long overdue and the greedy bankers should have been investigated a long time ago, .....
--airspoon

Airspoon, Are the politicians responsible for 'de-regulating' the banking/finance industries primarily to blame for not keeping basic protections in place for the citizens, and therefore putting the banks interests ahead of the people?

Not fully being aware of the US government system, it appears that lobbying should not be allowed. who lobbys for the people?

Ok its started I work part time for a friend who dose REO and bank owned propertys.
He got a disturbing email today the banks have pulled 11 of his listings today for illegal foreclosure.
So now its any bodys guess, These were fanny may prop. he all so has BOA so far not a peep from them.
It came all of a sudden I went may self and did occupancy checks on 6 of the new listings this week so I guess we are in the beginning stages of the death throws.

I wanted to post on this thread to get away from the "free house" meme.
The main area to watch on this, I believe, is what happens with the people who owns the securities. Of particular concern is the mortgages that were not properly assigned to the trusts in manners consistant with the very specific tax rules that allows the trusts (called REMICS) to operate in a manner that avoids double taxation. These REMICS must be assigned mortgages by the time the trust "closes". Also, REMICS may never accept impaired assets. The reasons for that is the REMICs have advantageous tax treatment to allow them to do what they do. Two problems with the way documents were handled. Assignments were not recorded either through negligence or malfaescence, or were left blank and therefore not properly assigned. The structure of the REMICs is now a two fold problem, it can no longer accept new mortgages, and it can't accept impaired assets. Since it wasn't properly handled at first it is now impossible to fix. The only option for the MBS holder is to put it back to who securitized it. I expect any day now to here influential holders of MBS begin to file suit against the securitizers. That is when we will start to see some fireworks..
Lehman, Aig, and Bear taught us that that the tbtf system is so levered and then intertwined with each other through derivatives that the failure of certain actors can easily set of a cascading counter-party default cycle that will inevitably end in either another bailout(unfortunately the most likely outcome), a final resolution to the can kicking over the past few years(painful but necessary), or a total collapse(a more real possibly than most people are willing to admit).

Keep watching this. I doubt there is as much politics to this as you'd think. I doubt either Republicans or Democrats are particularly happy to have this hitting the media a few weeks before an important mid term election. The banks are after all one of the biggest if not the biggest contributers to BOTH parties.

Once again the alternative media is months if not years ahead on this story. Zerohedge, Denninger,4closurefraud, and others have been on this issue for months now. This is another issue that I feel like atsers are ahead on this as well. We are more sensitive to what voices outside the msm are saying. It only goes to show that little open and non partisan debate exists in the msm, and even less what used to be called journalism.

reply to post by hillbilly4rent

That's pretty damn interesting hillbilly. If I remember correctly,you are in georgia, a non judicial foreclosure state (btw howdy neighbor, I'm from GA myself, and live in bama).Georgia is one of the fastest foreclosing states. If the process is legally flawed in the judicial states can you imagine the abuses in the states where no court appearance is needed.
On a personal note, do I detect a subtle shift in your thoughts about the seriousness of this. Seems like I see a difference in tone from some of the other posts you've made. If I'm wrong about that forgive me; maybe, it's a difference based on post title and topic being discussed. I'm mainly participating in the free house thread to bring attention to the entirety of the issue, and to advise anyone thinking about heading down that path to seek legal help.

reply to post by daddyroo45


You maybe right, I cant answer that question. I did find out you most likely can find out who owns your mortage, even if the original financing instituion sold it. Again, sorry if this is not a help, but maybe others can use it.

Sally is the Mortgage Electronic Registration System, a company jointly owned by all the big financial firms which has as its members any financial firm that lends money for mortgages and wants to easily exchange them to other firms. Sally’s spreadsheet in the analogy is actually the MERS database which is online for anybody to look at. Any mortgage for which MERS is acting as the mortgagee will list a MIN number (see example below). Anybody can type this MIN number into the MERS website and find out the name of the servicer and the actual lender for the mortgage (note, sometimes the lender info is not shown and you must contact the servicer first). Try it yourself: Search for MERS on your county recorder website, type any MIN number that you happen to find into the MERS system and see what you get.

Read more: www.businessinsider.com...

reply to post by hillbilly4rent


Interesting, so this just happened today? I wonder what things will look like by Friday.
Geez Louise!

reply to post by jefwane


I am interested to watch this as well, as many of these mortages were bundled and sold. As you mention these
REMIC, interesting to see the ones that were bundled with high risk.

Wow, this is starting to look serious. I wonder about information like this, but it is hard to find. Tyler Durden does a great job of staying on top of it.

To wit, on page 21 of the supplement we read that the average delinquency at foreclosure for Florida is 678 days, while for New York, it is, get ready, 792 days! That's right, a house is delinquent on its payments, which usually means not paying anything, for over two years in New York before it is foreclosed upon.

Which also means that only now are those who stopped paying their mortgage around the days when Lehman filed being foreclosed upon. And guess what happened to the economy, and the stock market in the 6 months immediately after... In other words, there is such a huge cliff of accrued foreclosures that is supposed to be hitting right about...now, that the double whammy of foreclosure gate and the accrued foreclosures will blow right through the balance sheets of banks like JPM.

And with that out of the way, here is why BofA believes that there is a "heightened risk of a more dismal scenario. If negative momentum in the housing market kicks in, and feeds into the banking system and broader economy, it will be hard to fight." Alas, Michelle, it already has.

www.zerohedge.com...

reply to post by burntheships


So is it beginning??

reply to post by Misoir


I dont know...what does it mean?
"A heightened risk of a more dismal scenario'?

I am keeping an eye out ...on Gold, and its relation to the housing mortage crisis.
Gold was up today over 17 an ounce, I think that is 14 straight gains in a row.

I have been waiting for this particular thing to hit the fan for some time...
many of these bundles mortgages were sold out of country....
the foriegn buyers of these bundles cannot prove ownership of individual properties to forclose i believe....
So if deutsch bank has your particular mortgage bundle it cannotshow title...and thus cant take the property

reply to post by burntheships

The since May the only stocks/ETF’s I have left in my portfolio are gold, silver, copper, Grains, oil and the Yen.
The only trading I do is currency in the forex exchange. With a pair of currency; one is higher one is lower and if you u trade the longer trend you can do pretty well during these times. I hate to trade against the Dollar but recently it’s been a good way to keep the value of your cash. There is more money in currency trading than all the stock markets combined.

I hope to one day sell my mobile home to an ex banking CEO fresh out of prison and own a really nice home!

Seriously, though; through pain comes birth. As dismal as things may seem to have a total collapse... I do beleive it will just be the labor pains giving birth to a new better America. Maybe I am an Optimist.

I am glad that they're finally doing something, anything to get some thing done about these criminal scammers!!!

reply to post by stirling


Correct you are. The bandini is hitting the fan...

The truth is that it would be hard to understate the amount of fraud that has gone on in the U.S. mortgage industry, and we are watching events unfold that could potentially rip the U.S. economy to shreds. Many are now referring to this crisis as "Foreclosure-Gate", and already it is shaping up to be the worst thing that has ever happened to the U.S. mortgage industry. At this point, it seems inevitable that some financial institutions will go under as a result of this mess. In fact, by the end of this thing we might see a whole bunch of lending institutions crash and burn.

seekingalpha.com...

reply to post by jefwane

On a personal note, do I detect a subtle shift in your thoughts about the seriousness of this

Oh no I think the hole dab blame thing FUBAR fannie may has been holding back for a year now just letting a few listings out at a time to try and save what little money is in a persons home from tanking. Now this snafu comes to light well acutely it has been known for a couple years that this would happen. Now the old proverbial crap is hitting the fan the only way is down IMHO. At least my home is safe (for now) its bought and payed for with no leans or any thing. But with the way things are going It may wind up in the previous owners hands. I bought it as a foreclosure in 2006. So I guess any thing can happen. As for the other thread I would like for some one to research any and every avenue before making a decision like that is all. But if a lot of people used their heads before they bought thier way in to the subprime bull then we wouldn't be in this situation. The banks made in so easy to get a mortgage that people were not looking down the road (ARM) but just what was in front of them
The only thing to come out of this IMO that is good is the cash for keys incentive that fannie give to foreclosure victims to help them get new housing I have got 3 of them to do Sat. So I guess from here on out its anybodys game.

Originally posted by burntheships

we are watching events unfold that could potentially rip the U.S. economy to shreds.

Not the economy but the false economy of smoke and mirrors. If you work in an industry that produces something tangible you should be okay, If you push paper for a living you may have a problem.