Sick Of Paying Your Mortgage? You May Not Have To Pay!

Originally posted by queenofsheba
The answer is Yes- I know what I am getting into when I sign my name to something, especially something as important as the biggest loan of my life; a mortgage.

You (unfortunately) don't know how the system works.

Example of my claim:
-You don't (ever) own your home.
-You are allowed to live in it, and maintain it.
-YOU pay property taxes which means you don't truly own anything.
-You pay rent to have that house on that land.

-You don't even own your own car, honestly you don't.

Repeat after me: "I am free."

Originally posted by Chinesis

Originally posted by GOD HIMSELF
While the poster above me may be right, I am sure in all those documents that you signed, you gave away the right for the contract obligation to be sold to a 3rd party.

As for the website,...legit or not, it is easier just to call and get the info, then you really dont have to worry or..... worry.

I had to call for my parents mortgage a couple years back and got everything squared away for them.

Again, regardless of how the financial industry screwed the USA, it is best to continue to try paying, because, again, they will find it.

In the end, you will end up owing said amount, and of course, damage to your credit profile (if it isnt already damaged).

edit on 12-10-2010 by GOD HIMSELF because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-10-2010 by GOD HIMSELF because: (no reason given)

The thing is...is of course you signed a contract.
You signed a contract that gives you:

-XXX,XXX amount of money to be used for a property purchase...
-Since it is obvious that the way ALL BANKS conduct their business is fraudulent in nature

Anyone would begin to see the implications of what actually goes on once you sign.
Your signature created the value of the loan in the 1st place.
Banking 101 easily validates this fact because the accounting would NEVER be disclosed.

The point is: OFFER to pay!
However before you offer to settle the account as closed YOU, want the original
blue ink document which creates the obligation to pay...

Without it (a copy is a forgery and doesn't stand in court) how can a 3rd party
ASS-U-ME you have an obligation to repay them since THEY purchased the mortgage
loan/security, hence the orignal creditor sold it....

Without an obligation to pay...there is NOT an obligation to pay.
Why?


Because it HAD already been paid off.
(all without your consent)

Again, when you signed the documents, one of those documents YOU signed GAVE CONSENT for it to be transferred.

One HAS THEE obligation to pay the "NOTE" Even if as you say the note was paid by another party, you would OWE them, because you consented earlier (when you originally signed) for the note to be able to be transferred.

In the end, in a court of law, do you really think that will stand?

reply to post by Chinesis

Incorrect.

The Note does not provide money to be used for a property purchase. Technically, the money could be used for anything. The Note, the loan instrument, is not tied to the property. It is the Mortgage, a separate document, which stipulates that the property is to be the collateral for the Note.

As has been pointed out, the Note is transferable. You are the "Borrower" on the Note. The debt is not paid if the Note is transferred.

And I do own my home. My home is my collateral on my Note. If I did not own my home it would not be collateral.

Expert in contract law...remind me not to hire you.

Originally posted by GOD HIMSELF

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
OK let's say you pay your mortgage off and the mortgage bank sends you a piece of paper that says it's payed off.

If they can't produce the original loan documents how can they send you a piece of paper stating that the contract is payed off when they can't produce it?

Which calls your payed off mortgage into question.

edit on 12-10-2010 by In nothing we trust because: (no reason given)

And why in heavens name would you doubt that your mortgage isnt payed off if they send you a letter stating so?

If you run into any problems, simply produce the letter. LOL


Silly question overall

You couldn't be anymore sillier than your perception of that post.

The original document retains value long after a debt has been discharged.
A letter or even a copy of the original isn't sufficient to legally satisfy a debt that has been paid.

Someone needs to read up on a multitude of texts...

Originally posted by Chinesis

Originally posted by queenofsheba
The answer is Yes- I know what I am getting into when I sign my name to something, especially something as important as the biggest loan of my life; a mortgage.

You (unfortunately) don't know how the system works.

Example of my claim:
-You don't (ever) own your home.
-You are allowed to live in it, and maintain it.
-YOU pay property taxes which means you don't truly own anything.
-You pay rent to have that house on that land.

-You don't even own your own car, honestly you don't.

Repeat after me: "I am free."

You are partly right.

You dont own your home - Till you pay the lien holder off (Bank, or whoever loaned you the $$)
Property taxes you pay - For the parcel of land you purchased in said county, thereby giving you access to counties facilities. (School, sewege, garbage collection, etc.)
Car you dont own - Till you pay the lien holder off (Bank,or whoever loaned you the $$)
It is simply because ONE has allowed themselves to be part of that system.

If YOU truly want to be FREE, then don't purchase said things.

Originally posted by GOD HIMSELF

The bank would also hand you the Title to your home without the Lien Holder on it.

So now, you have the letter AND the TITLE.

Can you lose both?

Stranger things have happened.

What if I had a house fire, a break in, lost my files due to moving 5 times in 2 years, or my wife did house cleaning which included shredding of excess paper files?

Seriously would I be screwed?

And if someone wanted to buy my house and I couldn't produce the documents?

What should I do, put on my game face and forge some documents?

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Chinesis

 

Incorrect.

And I do own my home. My home is my collateral on my Note. If I did not own my home it would not be collateral.

Expert in contract law...remind me not to hire you.

edit on 10/12/2010 by Phage because: (no reason given)

lol.

Just as long as you make that check out to *daddy* sure...you own your own home.
Just like your DMV fee for a license...and your yearly registration, then you own your own car.

Keep beLIEving that one.
In all actuality you don't own either unless you possess the original title (which you don't)

Hint: a certificate of title does not= the title.

Originally posted by Chinesis

Originally posted by GOD HIMSELF

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
OK let's say you pay your mortgage off and the mortgage bank sends you a piece of paper that says it's payed off.

If they can't produce the original loan documents how can they send you a piece of paper stating that the contract is payed off when they can't produce it?

Which calls your payed off mortgage into question.

edit on 12-10-2010 by In nothing we trust because: (no reason given)

And why in heavens name would you doubt that your mortgage isnt payed off if they send you a letter stating so?

If you run into any problems, simply produce the letter. LOL


Silly question overall

You couldn't be anymore sillier than your perception of that post.

The original document retains value long after a debt has been discharged.
A letter or even a copy of the original isn't sufficient to legally satisfy a debt that has been paid.

Someone needs to read up on a multitude of texts...

Sarcasm is hard to read eh?

Originally posted by GOD HIMSELF

Originally posted by Chinesis

Originally posted by queenofsheba
The answer is Yes- I know what I am getting into when I sign my name to something, especially something as important as the biggest loan of my life; a mortgage.

You (unfortunately) don't know how the system works.

Example of my claim:
-You don't (ever) own your home.
-You are allowed to live in it, and maintain it.
-YOU pay property taxes which means you don't truly own anything.
-You pay rent to have that house on that land.

-You don't even own your own car, honestly you don't.

Repeat after me: "I am free."

You are partly right.

You dont own your home - Till you pay the lien holder off (Bank, or whoever loaned you the $$)
Property taxes you pay - For the parcel of land you purchased in said county, thereby giving you access to counties facilities. (School, sewege, garbage collection, etc.)
Car you dont own - Till you pay the lien holder off (Bank,or whoever loaned you the $$)
It is simply because ONE has allowed themselves to be part of that system.

If YOU truly want to be FREE, then don't purchase said things.

Property taxes are illegal. Fact.
As for the car...there is no legal requirement to register the car/truck.

We all have a right to travel.
WE only have a privilege to drive IF we drive.

I don't drive, I travel.
Do you?

reply to post by Chinesis

You mean as long as I meet the obligation I entered into? True, the lien will exist until my debt is paid but the house and property are mine to do with as I see fit. I can rent it. I can sell it. I can refinance in order to gain liquid capital for reinvestment.

Originally posted by Chinesis

Originally posted by GOD HIMSELF

Originally posted by Chinesis

Originally posted by queenofsheba
The answer is Yes- I know what I am getting into when I sign my name to something, especially something as important as the biggest loan of my life; a mortgage.

You (unfortunately) don't know how the system works.

Example of my claim:
-You don't (ever) own your home.
-You are allowed to live in it, and maintain it.
-YOU pay property taxes which means you don't truly own anything.
-You pay rent to have that house on that land.

-You don't even own your own car, honestly you don't.

Repeat after me: "I am free."

You are partly right.

You dont own your home - Till you pay the lien holder off (Bank, or whoever loaned you the $$)
Property taxes you pay - For the parcel of land you purchased in said county, thereby giving you access to counties facilities. (School, sewege, garbage collection, etc.)
Car you dont own - Till you pay the lien holder off (Bank,or whoever loaned you the $$)
It is simply because ONE has allowed themselves to be part of that system.

If YOU truly want to be FREE, then don't purchase said things.

Property taxes are illegal. Fact.
As for the car...there is no legal requirement to register the car/truck.

We all have a right to travel.
WE only have a privilege to drive IF we drive.

I don't drive, I travel.
Do you?

Ask the policeman if their is NO LEGAL requirement to register your car if you are going to TRAVEL in it.

I can attest, I've had a number of cars that I didn't register, but then again, I was not using them to travel in.
YOU don't drive because it is a CHOICE YOU MADE to not be part of such system.

Property Taxes... are you talking about "double taxation"? Meh

what about the banks being held fully and completely accountable here?
There are many more restrictions on the lender to make and mature a valid contract between 2 parties.
The banks got greedy and lost. They got bailed out big *le sigh* with promises of freeing up credit and fear of chaos and collapse if they didn't get their bailout.
Now we find they are engaged in mass fraud and talk of racketeering charges filed last week against these banks based from the RICO statutes.
I am amazed at all the threats and fear tactics being used by those that are supporting these gangster bankers.
I have a very difficult time with the only argument being that it's baaaaaaaaaaaaaad to not pay your bills every month and not honor every deal you make, even if it was done by criminals using criminal methods with criminal intentions to defraud and steal all the assets of everyone they could in their huge bait and switch scheme.
The best I can see is this is proof the thieves got caught and they will hAVE to rely upon threats and fears using every scare tactic available, starting with those prepaid suits they use to manipulate their form of crime into a legitimate transcation in the faux justice system they have corrupted and manipulate for their absolute gain and our absolute servitude.
My opinion, hire a lawyer and look for all the class action suits to tag along with. Follow the law and fight the banks and MAKE THEM PAY those high priced lawyers.
They have all been caught countereiting and creating the documents they were required to have.
The government has them hook line and sinker. Whether they will get out of it is another matter.

Yes, read your contracts because there are requirements of you. But I can assure you, there is a much greater burden for the lender. Not only do these international investors involved with mbs's have a very big problem.
State laws counter any derivitive agreement they made.
If they traded your paper illegaly, their fault and in a free mkt they lose. Next time learn the laws, you gambled and never did your homework and you certainly did not do the legal legwork needed to secure your investment in ANOTHER FAMILIES HOME

You see this is what really pisses me off.
In no way should the people be on the street with families living in tents and boxes because great big mega banks, corporations and nations gambled away your jobs and livelihood in an even greater players scheme to literaly own the western worlds assets from manipulating a never-pay-back debt credit system (Keynesian economics) using a fiat currency(need more, just print it, want to destroy a nation, extend credit to everyone then poison the well.
We are heading towards them reseting the economy.
So instead of doing it by destroying everything leaving everyone with no food water and sheleter lets actuaLLY LOOK AT WHAT THESE CROOKS DID simply not let them profit from their fraud.
BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS= Food clothing, water, shelter...nowhere do I feel survival of prdatory banks that call themselves too big to fail can enter this list. So lets consider rethinking our thoughts on this.
These homes were built on credit with deals made to banks that for the most part no longer exist and the credit that created the money began it's process from that initial deal into entities that never ever provided any collateral whatsoever to the deal.
And they defrauded you to do it.
They got caught.
Here's your chance, take what is rightfully yours and make them prove otherwise on a very large scale.
Best case scenario we reset the economy working with our neighbors in homes that we no longer have to worry about the predator parasitical banks threatening us using scare tactics of taking from us our homes lievelyhood and well being.
Lets restart with the basic human rights all of us deserve, a home for our families and the freedom to grow fresh food using clean water and to trade with those that we chose. Anything else makes it look like corraling human chattel

Fair enough, I'm cool with you not expecting those that you borrow from to follow the letter of the law. I however expect them to do everything as it should be done and if they FUBAR it to bad. They expect the same from me.
Despite my first post I could honestly care less if someone gets a free house out of a bank due to the mistakes in the securitization and assignment process. I care more about the fact that institutions that only exist out of the generosity of the US taxpayer by virtue of our corrupt elected officials couldn't get something as simple as proper documents on REAL PROPERTY. They deserve to bleed lawyer fees over this they earned it.

In his best case scenario, these issues are deemed merely technical in nature and are successfully resolved but it takes at least year to do so and all foreclosures are delayed by at least a year. Levitin disputed the claim by banks that these issues can be resolved in a month or so and attributed the banks’ claims to “legal posturing.” In the medium case scenario, litigation ensues and it takes years to sort out these matters. In the worst case scenario, the aforementioned issues become a “systemic problem” which causes the mortgage market to grind to a halt as title insurers refuse to insure mortgages involving existing homes.

www.scribd.com...

That document is a summary of a conference call by citibank that included a law professor. It takes only a few minutes to read and lays out the issue pretty damn well. Most of the MSM is totally ignoring mentioning MERS at all. A couple of states have already ruled at the state supreme court level no less that MERS (Mortgage Electronic Recording System) cannot foreclose because the have no standing or interest. MERS was a creation of the TBTF before they were TBTF to subvert recording requirements amongst many states and save some money on fees.

I'll also say again the the more we peel this onion the more rotten the thing becomes. Not a doubt in my mind as they try to unwind this they are going to find other unseemly things. I'd just about bet money that as cashflow from the MBS trusts that hold these mortgages dries up we're gonna find that they securitized the same mortgage in different pools multiple times during the boom years. If you don't care who you are paying now think about if you had three or more entities that thought they had the right to your payments.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Stranger things have happened.

What if I had a house fire, a break in, lost my files due to moving 5 times in 2 years, or my wife did house cleaning which included shredding of excess paper files?

Seriously would I be screwed?

And if someone wanted to buy my house and I couldn't produce the documents?

What should I do, put on my game face and forge some documents?

edit on 12-10-2010 by In nothing we trust because: (no reason given)

In most states the cancellation or certificate of satisfaction signed the lien holder is recorded in the same county register of deeds as the mortgage/deed of trust. It will be found when a search is done when you sell the house. If the bank sends a letter directly to you when you pay off, read it. Carefully. It may contain a document that YOU need to record.

reply to post by jefwane

Talking about two separate things here. Debt obligation and the actions of the banks. The actions of the banks was reprehensible but it was legal. What I am talking about is in no way a defense of their practices.

I had the option of taking an interest only, variable rate mortgage (several times). But I just could not understand the reasoning behind such a thing (other than for house "flipping"). It didn't make any financial sense to me. Did the banks unethically encourage it? You bet. Did a lot of people take the bait? You bet. But it was lawful.

But, like the dotcom boom, it was based on...air...nothing. Hugely inflated prices and unverified ability to repay. Unfortunately we know who took the biggest hits this time, those who could least afford it.

Annndddd. That was all pretty much irrelevant...wasn't it? Sorry, I was a few posts out of time.

Originally posted by Pauligirl

In most states the cancellation or certificate of satisfaction signed the lien holder is recorded in the same county register of deeds as the mortgage/deed of trust. It will be found when a search is done when you sell the house.

If the bank sends a letter directly to you when you pay off, read it. Carefully. It may contain a document that YOU need to record.

Oh that's nice.

So if I don't send a copy of my payed off mortgage to the country there is no record that my mortgage was payed off, because the bank isn't obligated to do that or can't be bothered with it or they have future malicious intent towards me..

Anyone that had a mortgage through Countrywide should have a forensic audit done.
A number of mortgages in Calif were found to be in violation of Calif laws or have had the rules, fees and penalties changed after the mortgage was signed.
This may be used to force a new mortgage to be done by the company or since BOA now hold the notes they may have bad papers. some old floating interest rate mortgages may now be turned into fixed rate at today's interest rates if the note is found to be bad.

I had a number of mortgage companies as my mortgage keep getting resold to new companies,
Many of them tried to bill me for "there" homeowner insurance that was required for the mortgage even though i had insurance through my auto and home insurance company. the mortgage companies rate was almost double my insurance companies rates.
one of the mortgage companies even tried to change the insurance requirement and claim i my insurance was inadequate.
i had to go to the state department of insurance to stop this twice.(one company tried to get me to pay insurance rate for a new double wide mobile home on my old double wide.
Many people would have just paid to clear up the problem

Originally posted by ANNED
Anyone that had a mortgage through Countrywide should have a forensic audit done.
A number of mortgages in Calif were found to be in violation of Calif laws or have had the rules, fees and penalties changed after the mortgage was signed.
This may be used to force a new mortgage to be done by the company or since BOA now hold the notes they may have bad papers. some old floating interest rate mortgages may now be turned into fixed rate at today's interest rates if the note is found to be bad.

I had a number of mortgage companies as my mortgage keep getting resold to new companies,
Many of them tried to bill me for "there" homeowner insurance that was required for the mortgage even though i had insurance through my auto and home insurance company. the mortgage companies rate was almost double my insurance companies rates.
one of the mortgage companies even tried to change the insurance requirement and claim i my insurance was inadequate.
i had to go to the state department of insurance to stop this twice.(one company tried to get me to pay insurance rate for a new double wide mobile home on my old double wide.
Many people would have just paid to clear up the problem

They don't care, we're all just numbers to them.

They get thier money from us and/or the government even if they are complete imbeciles..

They get paid to be devils.[

how bout if you are in australia ? does this apply here?

Originally posted by gate13

how bout if you are in australia ? does this apply here?

I'm sure that you have imbeciles and devils in Australia as well.

Yes?