Sick Of Paying Your Mortgage? You May Not Have To Pay!

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posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by BillfromCovina
 


Hey Bill,
I've not heard of that happening to anyone I know (with vehicles). I can follow what you're saying, though.




posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 11:51 PM
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For everyone saying screw the banks, just stop paying they deserve it here is a few things to think about.

1. The banks are really already broke it is just being hidden, the fed - and by extension the taxpayers are the only ones keeping them in business. So when you say screw the banks you are really saying screw either the taxpayers who will be forced to bail the banks out again, or screw all the pension funds who bought all these mortgage backed securities under the idea they were getting secure investments. Either way you are essentially saying screw responsible productive American citizens.

2. There was profit made on this scheme, it is where all those huge bonuses wall street has been taking for years have been coming from, The banks themselves can be shut down, and should be but all this money that was made is very unlikely to ever be retrieved and redistributed to whom it was stolen from.

3. The idea that you are entitled to receive a house for free simply because the bankers greed stopped them from transferring title correctly has absolutely nothing to do with your obligation to pay the debt you agreed to. If you think it does you are nothing short of a leach on society.



posted on Oct, 15 2010 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by queenofsheba
I'm a pretty responsible adult. I have four lien-free titles on all four of my vehicles (payed in full). Who owns them, then? Is someone gonna come and take them? When my house is payed for in 8 years who will own it then? Yes, there are property taxes that need to be paid and I don't have a problem paying them. When I go to sell you mean I don't keep the money? Yes, there are taxes to pay. That's life. If you're saying no one is truly free because we all have to pay taxes for the society we live in and all that entails, I get that. Don't assume to know I don't know how the system works.


Being responsible has different meanings Queen...
On one hand you feel that paying an illegal tax on your property (is the moral and responsible thing to do)
While on the other being a responsible human being means something entirely different.

*YOU* don't have a problem paying them. Fine.
The point is IF you didn't pay them, your home (you thought you owned) would be taken from you.

There are taxes to pay, yes.
But do you know which ones are payable?
Which ones are voluntary?
Which ones are fraudulent?

You feel you own your car but you don't.
The original title was incinerated long ago, and a certificate of title was created=a forgery.

As long as you pay your registration to the state (as the co-owner) then you own your car.
If you can afford the extortion, by all means you are free to do so.

I choose a different path, one that was paved long ago by my forefathers'.



posted on Oct, 15 2010 @ 04:57 AM
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reply to post by proximo
 


can they deliver a clean title to me in the end?? will I be able to sell the house in the future if the housing market returns?? or....
did all those nice electronic shortcuts that they took (since the laws were all so too encumbersome to follow!!) mar the title too badly for that?

our gov't has already borrowed money in the name of the taxpayer a few times over, gave the poor bankers plenty, bought the toxic assetts......they've already been screwed and destined to be taxed to death...
and oh, yes, the poor, poor pensioners.....most of which now days are working for the gov't....well, what can I say....
I hear all the time about how social security should go, no one cares about the money that we boomers threw into that scheme, ya, we can live without that.....heck many of us went through most of our lives working our tails off, paying outrageous taxes that went to supporting people who never worked a day in their lives, never had the sense to marry before they started popping kids out one after the other, or didn't have enough dedication to their marriage to stick with their spouse when things got tough!! some of these people weren't left with enough money left over to provide a lifestyle to their own families that were equivalent to what their taxmoney was providing to others!! let alone save for any type or retirement.....but ya, let's just screw social security, we the taxpayers don't want to repay the fund the money we borrowed from it!!!

will the homeowner have a clean title at the end of this game, or will he have to spend a small fortune that he doesn't have to clear the title, or just well, be stuck with a house that is next to worthless because ain't no title insurance company gonna want to insure it, and since it's not insurable, ain't no bank gonna lend money to someone to buy it!

oh, yes,.......I am gonna pay a few hundred thousand dollars for a house that will only sell for whatever a person can come up with on their own later on because the bankers found our laws too cumbersome to follow and instead of asking congress to change the laws, they just decided that they were too big to be held to them and went on their way and did their own thing!!!

ya know, I had a dream a few decades ago where I was walking down the street and there were homes for sale all along that street, some where for five cents, some where for ten, some maybe 25.....and I had the money in my pocket to buy any of them I want...nice homes too,
I walked away from them, telling myself that was too much....
gee....
could be dream be becoming a reality at the present time???

we will all be screwed if it does!!!



posted on Oct, 15 2010 @ 09:40 AM
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I think it is so very funny that many people here do not undestand who they are and the power THEY possess. There IS no money, that's right there is no money. Federal Reserve Notes have NO INTRINSIC VALUE. Worthless paper and they are an IOU that the federal government owes US, we the people. HJR-192. When oh when will the public wake up to the fraud and the depth of their own stupidity?

Never I must assume.



posted on Oct, 15 2010 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by proximo
1. The banks are really already broke it is just being hidden, the fed - and by extension the taxpayers are the only ones keeping them in business. So when you say screw the banks you are really saying screw either the taxpayers who will be forced to bail the banks out again, or screw all the pension funds who bought all these mortgage backed securities under the idea they were getting secure investments. Either way you are essentially saying screw responsible productive American citizens.


This is not what I am saying my friend. The money is just an illusion. Yes the crash will effect you pension fund, yes it will effect the value of your money, yes it will effect the tax payers. It will collapse this false ideal of money. Are you suggesting that without money, we cannot take care of each other? A new system will rise out of the ashes of this old system. It will either be one controlled by the banks which they will use to continue the pyramid scheme and slave system, or it will be one controlled by the people sharing all equally. Don't hate those who have woken up to the scheme and decided to not be a part of it. They may be your salvation when you to are put on the street. Your idea of a "responsible productive American citizen" is merely one who cannot think beyond the system created. Expand your horizon to a more perfect society, not built on forced competition to survive, but mutual assistance to excel, and let your imagination soar with the possibilities.


Originally posted by proximo
2. There was profit made on this scheme, it is where all those huge bonuses wall street has been taking for years have been coming from, The banks themselves can be shut down, and should be but all this money that was made is very unlikely to ever be retrieved and redistributed to whom it was stolen from.


There was no profit, there was an illusion of profit. Right now the illusion is reality because we, the people, support it. As soon as we drop the illusion, those who "profited" will be left holding empty numbers.


Originally posted by proximo
3. The idea that you are entitled to receive a house for free simply because the bankers greed stopped them from transferring title correctly has absolutely nothing to do with your obligation to pay the debt you agreed to. If you think it does you are nothing short of a leach on society.


You are entitled to a house for free because you are a human being and have an equal claim to the resources of this planet. It belongs to all. As we are unfit to survive on our own, by design, we must work together to ensure peace and security for all. Anything less causes one to have to take from another for their own survival. It is a system which keeps us living like animals instead of the divine beings we are. The debt is the shackles that enslave you. All you have to do is take them off. However, this false sense of honor was a trick taught you that you would never remove them on your own.

Just my perspective my friend. Keep your own if it brings you joy, happiness, and love for all.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Oct, 15 2010 @ 11:00 AM
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What would you say if a stock market analyst showed you this picture:



It is not going to be this easy folks. It is a conspiracy, see the new thread that has cropped up. And don't forget the words;

PRETEND TO FAIL.

Banks are very, very good at that.



posted on Oct, 15 2010 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by carlitomoore
What would you say if a stock market analyst showed you this picture:



* * * *
PRETEND TO FAIL.

Banks are very, very good at that.


Interesting, isn't it, how the "failing" financial institutions can pay their officers and directors obscene sums of money in compensation as the institutions go down. Whether that's a "failure" depends on which end of the money pot you happen to be standing.



posted on Oct, 15 2010 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by Chinesis
 


Okay, I'm still not following on the vehicle thing. I have two cars that are sitting "unregistered", meaning to me that the tabs are expired (I'm not driving them right now). No one has come and harassed me about it, have not been fined and they have not been taken. The cleared titles are in my name. If I wanted to sell them, I'd sign the title over to the buyer, take my money, and then someone else would own it. If you're talking about not "owning" them because of fuel taxes, yearly tab (registration) taxes, mandatory insurance fees; because we must pay them then in order to legally drive them without being fined, I get that, but that is Utopia and frankly, we aren't living in Utopia. The Wild West was free, I'm sure horses weren't titled, taxed and insured. Is that what you're referring to? Completely, one-hundred percent free?



posted on Oct, 15 2010 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by Chinesis
 


Chinesis, who are your forefathers? Are you Native? The concept of ownership of land was foreign to Native cultures. I'm just curious; my grandfather was half Dakota (Sisseton-Wapheton).



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 03:09 AM
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Originally posted by queenofsheba
reply to post by Chinesis
 


Okay, I'm still not following on the vehicle thing. I have two cars that are sitting "unregistered", meaning to me that the tabs are expired (I'm not driving them right now). No one has come and harassed me about it, have not been fined and they have not been taken. The cleared titles are in my name. If I wanted to sell them, I'd sign the title over to the buyer, take my money, and then someone else would own it. If you're talking about not "owning" them because of fuel taxes, yearly tab (registration) taxes, mandatory insurance fees; because we must pay them then in order to legally drive them without being fined, I get that, but that is Utopia and frankly, we aren't living in Utopia. The Wild West was free, I'm sure horses weren't titled, taxed and insured. Is that what you're referring to? Completely, one-hundred percent free?



You may be confusing what I am saying.
You have a certificate of title for both vehicles. -NOT the title-
This means you have to pay a yearly fee for using that car on the roads.

Conversely...A Sovereign who travels in his private automobile is not subject
to registration UNLESS he/she wants to relinquish his/her rights in exchange for privileges...
A Sovereign is also not a person...therefore he/she can act via Common Law...
and NOT be subject to a revenue agent's scheme such as traffic citations.

You have probably in other ways reaffirmed the state's assertion that you are

-a serf
-a citizen
-a person
-which means you are also a corporation doing business as your (all caps name)
-which also means they have "joinder" anytime you function within the system.

The fact you do not have the original title coupled to your tacit agreement
that you driving a vehicle (as it is said) subjects you to the DMV's jurisdiction.
(as well as the State)

I don't believe they can take your car away (they don't want the car, they want the $$$)
but they can suspend your license, and fine you indefinitely until the car is brought up to
current...IF you are a DMV license holder, and IF you hold titles that your DMV/State issued
you do owe a registration fee. (which is only required because you chose to "register" them)
Perhaps you throw away the DMV notice envelopes before reading them?

Are you trying to tell me that since you aren't driving them now...that somehow gets
you off of the hook for paying the dues that come with registration? Meaning you WILL have
to pay those fees sooner or later, later meaning with added fees...If you ever try to sell these
cars guess what happens?


Let us not forget lawfully and legally can mean two separate things.



posted on Oct, 17 2010 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by Chinesis
 


as usual your information is spot on

most people do not understand the difference between driving and traveling

this is all part of the UCC

it is all about interstate commerce

if you do not use your car for monetary gain then it is traveling
but the FEDS have everybody brainwashed

star for sure



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by Josephus23
reply to post by Chinesis
 


as usual your information is spot on

most people do not understand the difference between driving and traveling

this is all part of the UCC

it is all about interstate commerce

if you do not use your car for monetary gain then it is traveling
but the FEDS have everybody brainwashed

star for sure

Love to see more and more people getting it. 18 USC 31 (6) (10). Your auto is priovate property and therefore IS NOT, under the federal definition of a "motor vehicle", a motor vehicle. IT is private property and can not be siezed or taken unless you have violated the golden rule and then ONLY IF a warrant is issued for the siezure, anything else done by the LEO is a federal offense BY THE LEO!!!!

THERE IS NO MONEY. Again, it is a debt instrument and not real, it is redeemable for nothing!! So it has no intrinsic value to anyone. You could pay me a million "dollars" in federal reserve notes and all I would have is fire starting material. People are using it as a "claim check" for things that they already own by existance. Someday I hope everyone will get it?



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 06:48 PM
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Love to see more and more people getting it. 18 USC 31 (6) (10). Your auto is priovate property and therefore IS NOT, under the federal definition of a "motor vehicle", a motor vehicle. IT is private property and can not be siezed or taken unless you have violated the golden rule and then ONLY IF a warrant is issued for the siezure, anything else done by the LEO is a federal offense BY THE LEO!!!!

THERE IS NO MONEY. Again, it is a debt instrument and not real, it is redeemable for nothing!! So it has no intrinsic value to anyone. You could pay me a million "dollars" in federal reserve notes and all I would have is fire starting material. People are using it as a "claim check" for things that they already own by existance. Someday I hope everyone will get it?

This is new and good information to me. I'm slowly getting it. Give me time. Seeing things as they are can be a little much at times. Nothing comes from nothing in this world it seems.



posted on Oct, 20 2010 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by queenofsheba
This is new and good information to me. I'm slowly getting it. Give me time. Seeing things as they are can be a little much at times. Nothing comes from nothing in this world it seems.


Right on QOS!
Unfortunately the way it is...we are born *bankrupt*
We are all proclaimed stillborn (and guess what?)
Stillborn doesn't mean dead! It means not moving.

Check out the seal on your birth certificate/certificate of birth.
You will note the registrar seal on it.

As soon as the documents are filed an E-state is created.

Unfortunately what I have learned is through the UCC you are a "Trustee."
A Trustee can be penalised, fined and/or imprisoned.

BUT, the office of the Executor/Executrix CANNOT.
The state, the judge ALL assume you aren't in the capacity
so they administer for this account, YOUR account.

Remember the highest law in existence is:
Trust Law, there is nothing higher.

The notary (not to be confused with the notary public=gov't agent)
is the highest official.


To learn more, check this out!
DL it and listen to it.
It is a few hours long, but the information is invaluable.

www.talkshoe.com...



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 04:07 AM
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Originally posted by Chinesis

Originally posted by queenofsheba
This is new and good information to me. I'm slowly getting it. Give me time. Seeing things as they are can be a little much at times. Nothing comes from nothing in this world it seems.


Right on QOS!

Unfortunately what I have learned is through the UCC you are a "Trustee."
A Trustee can be penalised, fined and/or imprisoned.

BUT, the office of the Executor/Executrix CANNOT.
The state, the judge ALL assume you aren't in the capacity
so they administer for this account, YOUR account.

Remember the highest law in existence is:
Trust Law, there is nothing higher.



Actually, you are a "beneficiary of the trust". When you file your UCC-1 you take control of the "strawman" away from the State and federal government. You then become the beneficiary and file a 1041 NOT a 1040. Your fiduciary fees are the return for the maintenance of the strawman. What it costs you to survive for the year. You get that "money" back as the loss is the beneficiaries loss.

Getting back to the thread, I filed a property tax exemption and haven't paid my mortgage in over a year. Went through all the foreclosure BS and rejected every offer to contract.

The highest law is the "golden rule", if you are refering to the highest law in court today, that would be equity law.

Again, the government must prove up it's claim or cease and desist, they are a corporation and you do not want to contract with them. I think we should compile a complete list of all the good threads here and post the information again so more people can educate themselves.

And remember, there IS no money.




The Promissory Note To Pay Our Debts

HJR-192 of June 5, 1933 is the promissory note (the promise of Abraham) the government issued to balance the exchange to credit the people. The Promissory note is on the debit side of the United States Governments ledger, which was a debited from their credit, created by the Executive Order of April 5, 1933 when they took the gold out of circulation. Public Policy is rooted in HJR-192 and is Grace that creates our exemption. This is your temporal saving grace. Under grace, the law falls away to create a more perfect contract. Public Policy removed the people's liability to make all payments by making a contract null if it required the payment to be in substance, because the people didn't have any money to pay with. All that must be done now is to discharge the liability. Pay and discharge are similar words but the principles are as different as Old and New Testaments. The word "pay" is equated with gold and silver, or something of substance like a first-born lamb, which requires tangible work to be invested in it to remove the liability because an execution must occur. The word "Discharge" is equated with paper, or even more basic, simple credits and debits, that exist on paper only, like the slate held by the agents/angels of heaven that get swiped clean. You cannot pay a bill with a bill and you cannot pay a debt with a debt.

What HJR-192 did was, remove the liability of an obligor (someone obligated to pay a debt) by making it against Public Policy to pay debts. All that needs to be done now is discharge the debit with an appropriate credit "dollar for dollar." Debt must be discharged dollar for dollar in the same sense, as sin was discharged on the Cross. The moment a debt exists, it must be written off. The catch is, we can't write off the debt because we are not in possession of the account in deficit; our fiduciary agent is in possession of the account so we must provide him with the tax return (by the return of the original offer) so the fiduciary can discharge the liability through their internal revenue service (the bookkeeper). Most feel that when the money was taken out of society, the people became the slaves, this is not true, the people were freed from every obligation that society could create thus freeing the people from any obligation which they may incur simply because we cannot pay a debt. Ask yourself the question, What are you charging me with? And how do you expect Me to pay? Simply said, there is no money, plain and simple for me to make the payment with and on top of that, if I were to pay, who is paying Me to pay that guy and who's paying that guy and so on... Public Policy is the supercedious bond because it limits our liability to pay. It is the more perfect contract because it operates on grace to pay our debts after we have done all that we can. We go as far as we can to fulfill the obligation (acceptance and tax return) and after we have done all we can, mercy and grace kick in being our exemption to make the payment. Grace creates our exemption in the industrial society so long as we accept the charge.




posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by daddio
 

We need a new thread, broken down, how to get from "here" to "there", in charge of the "strawman".

I have read a lot, sometimes conflicting information, about how to do this. I suppose filing the UCC form would be first?



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by Stewie
 


Exactly, make out a security agreement between you and the strawman and then file the UCC-1 and then the power of attorney in fact and then the copyright and so on. It is all in the "Redemption Manual". These are the best and most accurate documents I have found. You will have to do research in your own state to find the laws he refers to in his state of Texas, but you will find them. I have been doing this for almost two years now, have had no license for three, have not paid taxes for almost 5. I started out with tthe tax thing, "Good-Bye April 15th" was a good book there. Mary: Croft is another author to look up and read her stuff, she explains it quite simply.

This is the way we take back our country known as America, the U.S.A. and is absolutely NOT the U.S. which everyone refers to as they have been brainwashed. The U.S. is it's own country and has it's own corporate policy seperate and distinct from America or the 50 union States.

Once you have done this it is up to all the corporations to prove up their claim, how do they derive jurisdiction over YOU. Show me the law......as there isn't any, it's all corporate policy, code, regulation and so on, absolutely not law.

No victim, no crime.



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 05:18 PM
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Okay, that may be true, however, if the banks, and wall st felt this securitization was honest, then why did they create MERS a shell company to hide the true title holder on the property; and use MERS to avoid paying the transfer fees each time they resold the loan to another bank or mortg co? This now is created a problem for them as now all of those county recorders are now filing complaints damanding those years of recording fees. Second, homeowners who are not in foreclosure will have a problem down the road if they purchased property within the last 10 years when MERS was created; as without true knowledge of who really holds title aside from the homeowner..you now have a "clouded title". It will be a nightmare for the homeowner to sell or refinance their home. Also, I am tired of hearing people continue to use the excuse that people bought homes they could not afford. I have neighbors who bought and put down $50-$100K on $350K new homes. They are now foreclosed. Why?...They had 700+ credit scores, two incomes = $120K..but they were encouraged to take adjustable loans in order to get teaser low interest rates of 4%. They were told, because of your good credit, you can take advantage of this lower interest rate. You can refi out of this loan at any time. What they did not tell them, is that there would be big pre-penalty payment for refi out of an adj loan....and no one could anticipate the they mowould be trapped, forced to stay in an adj mortgage that would reset within 3-5 years doubling, and in some cases trippling their mortg payments, their down payment, (equity) would vanish due to their neighbors going into foreclosure, or selling their homes in a short sale in order to get out of the entire mess. The banksters, and wall street knew what they were doing when they created these loans and they knew what the outcome would be. BIG profits, bonuses and the homeowner would get screwed. The reason they are ramping up these foreclosures is that they are now trying to cover up the fraud. They do not have paperwork, cannot prove they are on title. They also know if homeowners start investigating their loans and find RESPA violations, the banks will be in BIG do do. Look at it this way: if a person went out and wrote a bunch of bad checks....knowing their were bad and when the people to whom the checks were written threatened to turn those checks over to authorities, that person would probably run out and try to collect all the checks back, so there is no evidence for the people who recieved them to prosecute. The banks are trying to take back all the homes they can so that no one can audit the paperwork the homeowners have, Now that the judges, and the Atty Generals in all 50 states are looking into this, as well as the investors on wall street who are also calling for their money back, the banks are backed into a corner. Trust me, this is one way the govt can force the banks' hand to make them deal with the problem they created. So for people to keep saying people bought homes they could not afford is no longer true. Most of those people have already lost their homes. The people who are losing homes now are those who have been paying on time, and have either lost a job, due to this mess, or have one of those crazy loans, their property has lost value and they are stuck. This mess now is hurting everyone. Those that keep saying that are either renters who cant afford to buy or old folks whose homes are paid for and it doesn't matter to them, as they have nothing to worry about, They own their homes free and clear, are retired on a fixed comfortable income and have nothing better to do than make crazy comments without researching this entire mess. If the banks wall st etc were all legit, then why is the justice department allowing these investigations and uncovering all this fraud. They committed a fraudelent crime that hurt a lot of people and they are continuingto use fraud to cover up the crime. I hope all the banks go down the tube. Futher more, the sky is or will be falling cry from them to get another bail out only to give it to their executives won't work anymore. The homeowners are not trying to get a free house....you have got it twisted.....it's the banks and wall street that are trying and succeeding in getting a free house to resell and make profits to which they are no longer entitled.



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 07:07 PM
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Beg to Differ.....have you taken your thought process a little further and thought about the homeowner that is left with a "clouded title" which is like someone trying to sell a car with a "salvage title". If at the end of this mess, the banks walk away with a few that get jail time and others like Mozillo (owner of country wide) who at this very moment is trying to make a deal to pay $67 million to keep from going to jail.....and the home owners end up with a tangled mess of a title that leaves them in a situation where they can not sell or refinance the home, who do you think ends up with the short end of the stick? At least if the homeowners get the home with a clear title the economy will recover, as they can sell and refi the home. Leaving the homeowner with a clouded title will only put the homeowner in a position where they will stop making payments, which is only fair. If the homeowner has a clouded title and can't sell or refi, then why should the banks be able to foreclose take the property and resell? If they are unwilling to refi due to a clouded title, then they know something....It is like California who is issuing IOUs for tax refunds, but will not accept those same IOUs when people want to use them to pay their property taxes...why because they know the IOU is worthless....think about this whole thing. The banks have a lot of nerve...they concocted this whole mess and should be held accountable to the consequences. Their intent over the years when they put MERS and these toxic loans together they would get to take back homes they were not entitled to. In other words, they get a free house....now is that fair? No one told them to securitize home loans, no one told them to invent MERS to hide true title, so if in the end, the homeowner get their home back free and clear....the banks just for once got played on a game they were trying to play lost due greed and fraud. As long as this mortgage mess stays tangled up no one wins except the Banks. What are they going to do with all the entire nations empty homes. The more people that get put in the street will eventually cause more job loss, so if you are one of the ones who has ajob today, in a month or so you wont have a job. If you think this is bad wait until the commercial property (malls, stores, etc.) start to melt, as they will fall victim because if everyone is homeless what's the point of shopping as you will have no place to put clothes or food.
The




Originally posted by proximo
For everyone saying screw the banks, just stop paying they deserve it here is a few things to think about.

1. The banks are really already broke it is just being hidden, the fed - and by extension the taxpayers are the only ones keeping them in business. So when you say screw the banks you are really saying screw either the taxpayers who will be forced to bail the banks out again, or screw all the pension funds who bought all these mortgage backed securities under the idea they were getting secure investments. Either way you are essentially saying screw responsible productive American citizens.

2. There was profit made on this scheme, it is where all those huge bonuses wall street has been taking for years have been coming from, The banks themselves can be shut down, and should be but all this money that was made is very unlikely to ever be retrieved and redistributed to whom it was stolen from.

3. The idea that you are entitled to receive a house for free simply because the bankers greed stopped them from transferring title correctly has absolutely nothing to do with your obligation to pay the debt you agreed to. If you think it does you are nothing short of a leach on society.






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