Why are racists and homophobes so hated?

First let me state clearly, that I am neither one of the two mentioned in the title.

I just wonder why these people are so hated? Don't they also have the right to believe what they want to?

Racists don't like certain people, and homophobes don't like gays, so what about it?

It is true however that they might come across as a bit harsh in their believes sometimes, but myself really don't have a problem with either of them. If a racist don;'t like me, so be it, if a homophobe don't like me because I don';t share his believes, so be it.

Why is it necessary to make such an issue out of other people's believes. Because we perceive it to be wrong. But who are we to judge?

VvV

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


Heya VVV,

I can only speak for myself here but my seemingly hostile and most definitely unaccepting attitude towards racists, homophobes, and all bigots in general is based in this philosophy...

If these peoples behaviors are allowed public acceptance, by my silence, then I am morally as culpable for the acts that these sorts of predispositions unerringly lead to as are those who perpetrate the acts. I don't hate bigots, but I very much hate their beliefs. I feel a societal responsibility to disagree with that which is unproductive or destructive to my fellow humans. To abet hatred is to invite disaster.

So, in this regard, I seek to punish the behavior, by voicing my dissent towards it and to hopefully enlighten the individual who harbors these ideas in the process.

I hope this goes to some length towards answering your question.

~Heff

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


If they want to hate, great, let them hate all they want from the privacy of their own homes and their own thoughts.

Some people can't do that. They have to inflict their hate on the world and open their mouths in public like idiots. Freedom of speech and the right to ones opinion, okay... biologically, racial arguments don't have ground. There is no reasoning in a racist argument. The only possibility I could foresee is an individual having a bad experience with a certain group of people because of bad timing and location, or whatever the circumstances may be.. and instead of blaming it on the situation, he/she takes that anger out on the race of the people who have wronged him/her.

You can't really hate them for being who they are because you don't know them or what they've been through, but like i said, when someone opens their mouth and decides to attack.. well, they deserve all the hate they could choke on.

As for homophobes... well... what about gay people? There's the normal gay people who keep to themselves and live out their private lives behind closed doors just as I do, and hopefully you the reader as well. Then there's the flamboyant "I'm so proud to be gayyyy!!! look at meeee!!" types that want attention because of their lifestyle choice. You can argue there's nothing wrong with that, why shouldn't they be proud? I think if heterosexuals can keep their sexual preferences at home, we should at least be given the same respect from homosexuals. These gay pride parades are a joke for publicity.

reply to post by Hefficide


Thank you Heff,

You do make a valid point.But (there is always a but), i can understand that people might hate the believes of these people. Hell, even I don't like what they believe or stand for. The problem though is this, by hating their believes we will eventually hate the person. When this happens, we are no better than them to start with.

Let me just clarify again, I am not judgemental. I am merely trying to find out where the hate for a racist or homophobe stems from.

Maybe the same type of argument can be used for anything really. Why do the sceptics hate the believers? Hate is a very strong emotion. Somebody must really really go far for me to hate them.

VvV

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


Would you hate somebody that knocks down your door and rapes your mother and sister? (don't take this seriously, it's a hypothetical thing)
Would you hate an employer who decides they need to reassess the budget, and the first step is to fire you and a couple of your co-workers?

Would you the cop that gives you a ticket for driving five miles over the speed limit when you're trying to reach a friend who is about to commit suicide?

How about the guys that hang a black kid from a lamp pole? would you hate them or just let say "well, their beliefs are their beliefs and they deserve to have em... who am i to judge?"

There are some things that don't need my judgement nor yours to qualify to either of us as being right or wrong, worthy of hate or appraise. Issues like racism and the lives it takes, has taken, and will take.. Hate of this kind, is wrong in its own nature without the need to be deemed as wrong by anyone.
It is not wrong to condemn these people for what they do, i'd say it's part of your duty to humanity to do so. To watch it go by and shrug your shoulders, say who am i to judge... It's the equivalent to grabbing the hand lotion while you watch your mother and sister get raped.

Despicable man.


edit to add the word "you"

I personally "hate" (am intolerant of) all stupid people who won't shut up ever. Racists and homophobes are very special cases of stupid, loud, inherently annoying people. I also "hate" Jay Leno, the girl from the Progressive Insurance commercials, and most of my own graduating class. There's only so much oxygen, after all.

Despicable man

reply to post by Yeah, sure.


Really man, I think you might understand me wrong. And resorting to name calling? Why am I a despicable man? You seem to be very judgemental, for no apparent reason.

The examples you used to get your point across, are all extreme situations. And in those cases, yes, even I would hate the perpetrators. I was however referring to the broader spectrum of stereotypes, and how we label them, and consequently hate them for their believes. For example, a guy that belongs to the KKK, or a guy that don't like Mexicans, etc. This is what I am referring to. We hate those people because they harbour a certain believe, and won't be swayed by us. An thus I asked the question "Why"?

Now please calm down, and try to not make enemies. Or are you just trying to get your 20 post up, and then not reading my posts properly.?

Please don't just assume anything without asking first.

VVv

Originally posted by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

Despicable man

reply to post by Yeah, sure.

 

Really man, I think you might understand me wrong. And resorting to name calling? Why am I a despicable man? You seem to be very judgemental, for no apparent reason.

The examples you used to get your point across, are all extreme situations. And in those cases, yes, even I would hate the perpetrators. I was however referring to the broader spectrum of stereotypes, and how we label them, and consequently hate them for their believes. For example, a guy that belongs to the KKK, or a guy that don't like Mexicans, etc. This is what I am referring to. We hate those people because they harbour a certain believe, and won't be swayed by us. An thus I asked the question "Why"?

Now please calm down, and try to not make enemies. Or are you just trying to get your 20 post up, and then not reading my posts properly.?

Please don't just assume anything without asking first.

VVv

I see what you're saying.

You quote my last line and no where in it does it refer to you personally. I'm sorry if you took it that way. Read my entire post one more time and tell me if it doesn't describe a despicable man.

I don't think your OP was about people hating racists and homophobes, it seems to me to be a philosophical question about hating people because they don't see things your way. In that case, I don't really see the point in hating someone because they can't use reasoning in their own logic. I just feel kind of bad for them for being blind.

What's this 20 posts thing you're talking about? I'm obviously fishing for flags

Originally posted by Hefficide
I can only speak for myself here but my seemingly hostile and most definitely unaccepting attitude towards racists, homophobes, and all bigots in general is based in this philosophy...

So you are hostile and unaccepting of your own beliefs ?

By definition, you are bigoted against those that hold racist and homophobic views.

reply to post by Yeah, sure.


Thanks for clarifying that mate, appreciated.

2nd line

Originally posted by Yeah, sure.
here are some things that don't need my judgement nor yours to qualify to either of us as being right or wrong, worthy of hate or appraise. Issues like racism and the lives it takes, has taken, and will take.. Hate of this kind, is wrong in its own nature without the need to be deemed as wrong by anyone.

Sorry, I've got to pick you up on that one.

You are talking about moral absolutes, which don't exist.

Words often used to describe homosexuality are ''wrong'' and ''immoral'', while equally words often used to describe homophobes are also ''wrong'' and ''immoral''.

You can't prove which of these viewpoints are right or wrong, as they are purely subjective viewpoints.

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

Why are racists and homophobes so hated?

How familiar are you with the Westboro Baptist Church?

They sing beautiful songs!

Another beautiful song they sing and laugh at a soldier's funeral

This is good things they are teaching their children. This message is sooo important to get out there, and there just isn't enough hate in the world.



ughh,
ET

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by Hefficide
I can only speak for myself here but my seemingly hostile and most definitely unaccepting attitude towards racists, homophobes, and all bigots in general is based in this philosophy...

So you are hostile and unaccepting of your own beliefs ?

By definition, you are bigoted against those that hold racist and homophobic views.

I said "seemingly hostile" which is a far cry from actually being "hostile". "Unaccepting" is a correct quote, though it's not a definable or proper word. But the meaning is, I think, understandable. I do not accept the tenets of bigotry.

big·ot noun \ˈbi-gət\ Definition of BIGOT :

a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

Source

The argument that being intolerant towards intolerance is in, itself, an intolerant act might be fun fodder for philosophy class. But in application it doesn't apply. It is superfluous to suggest so here.

Racists, xenophobes, homophobes, etc hate people for who they are. I hate nobody. I simply disagree with a behavior or predisposition and have the wherewithal to say so.

Because it's fun to prod animals.

And idiots...

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by Yeah, sure.
here are some things that don't need my judgement nor yours to qualify to either of us as being right or wrong, worthy of hate or appraise. Issues like racism and the lives it takes, has taken, and will take.. Hate of this kind, is wrong in its own nature without the need to be deemed as wrong by anyone.

Sorry, I've got to pick you up on that one.

You are talking about moral absolutes, which don't exist.

Words often used to describe homosexuality are ''wrong'' and ''immoral'', while equally words often used to describe homophobes are also ''wrong'' and ''immoral''.

You can't prove which of these viewpoints are right or wrong, as they are purely subjective viewpoints.

Yay! I got picked up.

Well to begin with, you're quoting a piece of my post that has nothing to do with homosexuality or homophobia. I don't think either is an issue so I can't really write up a moral argument against either one. But I'll bicker with ya on this one brother.

Yes, people do say homosexuality is "wrong" and "immoral". That's could be either a religious argument, or a philosophical one. Sexual preference isn't a choice so it can't be deemed as immoral or wrong. That would be like saying schizophrenia is wrong and immoral.

You said, "...describe homophobes are also "wrong" and "immoral".."
I say, homophobia is an irrational fear by definition. A fear can't be wrong or immoral until it has Hate to act upon it.
When you have hate seducing people into hurting and killing others, well, I don't need a subjective viewpoint to point out that this is wrong... It is a moral absolute, as you coined it. ;-)

Originally posted by Hefficide
I said "seemingly hostile" which is a far cry from actually being "hostile". "Unaccepting" is a correct quote, though it's not a definable or proper word. But the meaning is, I think, understandable. I do not accept the tenets of bigotry.

I apologise, I missed the ''seemingly'' part.

But I can't believe that you do not accept the tenets of bigotry, in practice.

As per the definition that you quote: ''a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices''.

Who isn't obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her opinions and prejudices one way or another ?

Most of us, I'd wager, are ''obstinately intolerant'' towards the actions of child molesters, for example.

Originally posted by Hefficide
The argument that being intolerant towards intolerance is in, itself, an intolerant act might be fun fodder for philosophy class. But in application it doesn't apply. It is superfluous to suggest so here.

It's not ''fun fodder'', but rather a fundamental point in any situation where people label another group of people as ''bigots''.

The word ''bigot'' is hardly a flattering term, and is usually used as an insult.

Yet, the person using the word, invariably, is bigoted against those who hold the views that they personally disagree with.

Originally posted by Hefficide
Racists, xenophobes, homophobes, etc hate people for who they are. I hate nobody. I simply disagree with a behavior or predisposition and have the wherewithal to say so.

But bigotry isn't analogous with hate. Bigotry is intolerance and prejudice.

We are all bigots, one way or another.

''Hate'' is such a worryingly misused word on ATS, and whenever I ask someone to provide examples of supposed hatred on here, they never can.

As I always say, I strongly dislike lemon meringue pie, but to suggest I have an actual strong emotional feeling of hatred towards it would be preposterous !

Originally posted by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
I just wonder why these people are so hated? Don't they also have the right to believe what they want to?

They absolutely DO have the right to feel and believe the way they do. But there's a difference between having a legal right and being socially acceptable. Bigots are usually shunned by society at large because the majority don't like bigotry.

So, sure people have the right to be bigots and to think whatever they want. But I also have the right to say that I disagree with them.

As for the reason they are hated... what's not to hate? For the most part, they're closed-minded, "superior", ignorant, sanctimonious, busy-bodies, who think they have the right to dictate how other people should live. What's not to hate?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Apparently if you hate them you become them.

Second Line

For me, it comes down to what value those people bring society in general.

Yes, people have the right to their opinions and views - but if said opinions and view infringe upon the rights and freedoms of others, then no, they should not be entitled to them and should be shunned. We live in an ever changing world, where culture and civilisation are changing at a very rapid pace (well, maybe not some of the middle east, stone-your-women countries).

And the sorts of people whose beliefs undermime the efforts of society to progress are not worth the toilet paper they're smeared on.

Does my view infringe upon others? Sure - it infringes upon the views of morons and idiots who live in an uncivilised view of the world, where sexual preference or skin colour somehow make a difference to the lives of those morons and idiots; they fear what they do not understand.

Hate the haters. Is that oxymoronic? I don't think - if we hate those that do nothing but stir up racism and unfounded homophobic fear, how is that bad? I don't think it is. But of course, that's just my opinion.

A lot of MYOB and a little discretion/ decorum would go a long way. Just as people should be accepting of others (geez, I hate the word "tolerance. It feels so condescending to me), those "others" (& there are way more of those- all of us, really) need to not try & demand acquiescence. Some "validations" just shouldn't be necessary if we know who we are & are true to ourselves. And look at ourselves- and life, with a sense of humor/ philosophically.

just my ,o2

@ joechip...uhoh :-X