Ask a capitalist (People who live in socialist countries invited to reply)

I believe in the concept of capitalism. I defend the concept, even though it seems to be failing in America.

Am I delusional, misguided and a victim of my conditioning?

Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned and operated for a private profit; decisions regarding supply, demand, price, distribution, and investments are made by private actors in the market rather than by central planning by the government; profit is distributed to owners who invest in businesses, and wages are paid to workers employed by businesses.

en.wikipedia.org...

What is your real life expierience with socialism in your socialist country?

Does it work or is it a fraudulent system?

I understand the dangers of socialism, but frankly the dangers don't seem to be any different than exist in capitalism. The few always aquire more than they need. (More power, more money, more stuff, more control, more followers, etc ...)

In the American system it is trully dog eat dog, survival of the fittest. Some people seem to have figured out how to game the system (Washington lobbiests, Propaganda, Media control, Bribes, government contracts, government supporting government, etc) though giving them an unfair advantage.

So the question to the socialists is are people who support capitalism and free enterprise stupid?

I think you'll find it difficult getting any replies from socialist countries, because there arn't really any. Although I imagine to most Americans they believe the UK is a socialist country, which let me tell you it is not by any stretch of the imagination. However, we do have policies some would consider socialistic. We have a national health system, without which I wouldn't be here typing this message. We have free education for children, we provide child support to help keep children out of poverty and to help supplement the poor wages provided by the private sector for the average worker. We have state pensions which are a lifeline to many old people.

Despite what you may here from the right we have some amazing hospitals paid for by our taxes, GPs who you can see whenever you want and world class surgeons and doctors.

I guess the problem we have now with the financial crisis is that many of these things that have been fought for for generations will be stripped back and we will be left with the services of a third world state.

I wouldnt say Capitalists were stupid but there is a problem when the majority of the worlds wealth is held in the hands of a tiny minority, while the majority on the globe live in poverty.

reply to post by In nothing we trust


There are 2 types of capitalism. Responsible and Irresponsible. Currently we have a hybrid Irresponsible Capitalism model overshadowed by subsidized government incentives which is the worst of both worlds.

Responsible capitalism is the practice of competition with anti-monopoly laws in place to prevent cornering a market. Responsible capitalism also takes into account both the needs of the "shareholder" and the companies "employees" in the form of wages. Responsible capitalism also infers making a safe product and complying with Federal safety regulations that are in place to protect the consumer.

Irresponsible capitalism is the practice of "profit at any cost"! Anti-monopoly laws have been bypassed, mega mergers are cornering the markets in Telecom, Media, and numerous other industries. Companies outsource in order to bypass labor laws, environmental protections, and safety concerns. Companies bribe Federal regulators and politicians to bypass safety regulations and receive government incentives and subsidies. Corruption.

As with any system, once corruption is allowed to grow, things go downhill. The problems with Capitalism are not the concepts but the reality of unbridled corruption and International greed.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


A majority of the world lives in poverty due to corruption not capitalism. What is the difference between wealth held by people who started companies and make products and Political Leadership?

I will tell you, Producers and Takers. You cannot bring up the standard of living in a nation if the Political leadership TAKES all the wealth. We see this in almost every 3rd world nation. The "elite" ruling class takes all the wealth and distributes it as they see fit (usually to themselves first and what is left over for the serfs). With the producers, at least they employ people to produce, thus consume, thus the accumulation of wealth at a national level in the form of property ownership and personal investment. In the X form of government (X being Fascism, Communism, State Capitalism, Socialism, whatever your wish to call it) where the political elite or ruling class takers run the show, wealth is taken from the producers and they "choose" who it benefits. Those who benefit most are themselves and their interest.

In the capitalist model, YOU have the opportunity to become wealthy. A webpage, service, product, whatever can change your life and you can become wealthy. In the X form of Government, YOU will be a serf unless you are born in the right circle or know someone.

Originally posted by infolurker
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

. , YOU will be a serf unless you are born in the right circle or know someone.

Similar to how current Global capitalism works, no? Unless you are born into wealth, you will always be disadvantaged against. all very well if you are born in America, not so great if your born on the Sub continent. How many of those working in factories making cheap goods for westerners will ever become wealthy, not even wealthy enough to pay for the pair of shoes they spend their days making

reply to post by woodwardjnr


I'll just point out that Health and Education have been ring fenced in the upcoming spending review, although they will most certainly be required to become more efficient as their budgets won't be increased. This isn't a bad thing, either, as we all know that under Labour there have been some god-awful spending decisions that ended up being a total waste of money.

As for the OP, I would be curious to find out exactly what he means by living in a "capitalist" country and living in a "socialist" one. I personally think this is a new way for certain American ATS'ers to try and rip on Europe/UK, basically saying "our way is best".

Originally posted by infolurker

A majority of the world lives in poverty due to corruption not capitalism.

You cannot bring up the standard of living in a nation if the Political leadership TAKES all the wealth. We see this in almost every 3rd world nation.

The "elite" ruling class takes all the wealth and distributes it as they see fit (usually to themselves first and what is left over for the serfs).

And this is the problem that has happened to America.

The capitalists are the takers.

And the government is also the takers.

We get no benifits and yet we are getting taken by both sides.

Seriously someone needs to nuke Wall Street and D.C. at the same time.

Anyone, anyone?

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Seriously someone needs to nuke Wall Street and D.C. at the same time.

Anyone, anyone?

You say this like there is any discernible difference between the two.

Wall Street is Washington D.C.

~Heff

Originally posted by stumason

As for the OP, I would be curious to find out exactly what he means by living in a "capitalist" country and living in a "socialist" one. I personally think this is a new way for certain American ATS'ers to try and rip on Europe/UK, basically saying "our way is best".

Not at all.

It is an open ended question, where I am willing to question my most sacred beliefs as being true or false.

Is capitalism a farce?

Is socialism the better path?

Am i a mind controlled tool of the elite which favors capitalism?

Originally posted by Hefficide

Wall Street is Washington D.C.

They do seem to be one of the same.

Everyone slave to the same master.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

As for the OP, I would be curious to find out exactly what he means by living in a "capitalist" country and living in a "socialist" one. I personally think this is a new way for certain American ATS'ers to try and rip on Europe/UK, basically saying "our way is best".

I don't think that will happen. There are a lot of Americans that are blind to the woes of their country, but those on ATS are waking up to the fact that their infrastructure is crumbling, and the banks and capitalistic corporations are stealing the money. Lack of regulation breeds corruption. There are portions of Europe that are also in the toilet, financially, for various reasons.

I think a country needs to be a bit of both, socialist and capitalist. "They" - American politicians, called Canada a socialist country during the health care debates. Our education system seems to work fairly well, as does our health care. We get unemployment insurance, if needed, for a regulated time, and we also have welfare if needed, and it's well regulated too. We never have to worry about the fire department anywhere letting our house burn down either.

Sure, we have the odd problem here and there, wait times to get a doctor or operation sometimes, depending on where you live, but after hearing of the complaints of the USA lately, wow, am I ever glad to live up here!!! We aren't socialist because we have all for profit businesses, and large corporations, but I think we have a good balance of both. A few things "socialized" isn't a bad thing when they work properly.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
So the question to the socialists is are people who support capitalism and free enterprise stupid?

I don't think it's as easy as that. Even so called "socialist" countries, by US "public opinion" still have free enterprise.

For me, the most "socialist" country I've been to would be Denmark. But i didn't find it anything as intimidating as the American media portray it to be. They pay very high income taxes, that is true; I don't contest that. But the level of social care the Danes receive is staggering.

The roads and public services are great, schooling is mostly free (as my mate did her MA and PhD there for free over many years!) so are the books and supplies. Hell, many people stay in school for years just because of the money and grants paid out.

You pay a lot in taxes, but you get a lot back. At least it seemed like that to me while I was there. I think the American public has been FUD'd into believing socialism is akin to the communism of the 1950's. Just my opinion of course. Denmark is a really great place.

Capitalists arnt stupid as a whole but IMHO full on free market capitalists are. capitalism can work if properly regulated limitations need to be put in place to prevent the runaway power of corporations. If busineses can be kept at a 'medium' scale market fources can be usefull. However a perfect capitalism pales in comparison to the perfect communism, however well balenced and upwardly mobile it allways requires someone to be ontop and someone bellow.

In summary both big businesses and the goverment they control are a problem. My favored solution is an anarchocommunism govened by direct democracy, with a non transferable currancy (ala parcon) to add a level of compitition, as I recognise tje risks of a communist socity becomimg to complacent. I can explain more if necisaery and sorry for the spelling