The Influence of Zoroastrianism on Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

Zoroastrianism is one of the oldest world religions. In fact, some have dated it as the world's oldest monotheism, although this supposition is by no means universally accepted. Accurately describing the age of this religion is very difficult, because there is some debate over when the prophet for who it is named, Zarathustra (in Greek, Zoroaster) actually lived. Speculation ranges from 6,000 to 600 B.C.E. What is known, however, is that for a period of approximately 1,000 years, Zoroastrianism was a very prominent religion, certainly the most powerful in the Middle East, perhaps the most powerful in the world. Over this period, which is generally held to have been from 549 B.C.E. to 642 C.E. (Zoroastrianism 574), it is known that Zoroastrianism communicated some of its traditional ideas to some of the adherents of Judaism (Flower 58). These were incorporated to some degree into the Jewish faith. However, because both Christianity and Islam were founded after Zoroastrianism, they were both influenced to a much greater degree, and tenets of faith that were originally found in Zoroastrianism were incorporated into Christianity and Islam on a very noticeable level. In fact, many aspects of Christianity and Islam that many people think typify these two religions have their roots in Zoroastrianism. The most notable of these aspects are the notions of dualism, judgement at death, heaven and hell, a savior born of a virgin, a final judgement, and resurrection. All of these concepts were originally taught in Zoroastrianism before Christianity and Islam existed (Zoroastrianism, 574). Therefore, it is evident that, by preceding Christianity and Islam, Zoroastrianism influenced both of these religions.

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How is it that people are so dedicated and faithful to a religion (ALA Christianity/Islam), yet they do not understand the true origins of their faith? How can we take the Christian faith as the one true religion when it is a copy off of Zoroastrianism?

The main problem at the heart of our species is ignorance. We are unwilling to believe something new. We call it outlandish and not possible, yet these pieces of information are scientifically, historically, and archaelogicaly backed. A Christian won't be willing to believe this information. Why? Because they do not want to.

Christians, please counter this information and tell me WHY The largest three religions on Earth are not copycats of Zoroastrianism. Also, I'm pretty sure we don't want to hear the 'faith' thing please.

Discuss.

Mod Note: Please refrain from copying and pasting entire articles from external sources without providing proper citation. Plagiarism – Please Review This Link.

edit on 10/10/2010 by maria_stardust because: Shortened amount of external copy and pasted material. Added external source tags and link to original article.

This took a LONG time to put together, and I have posted it on various websites.

I love this thread! Thank you for this thread it is so great..
Check this out right here.
listverse.com... sus/

Christians, please counter this information and tell me WHY The largest three religions on Earth are not copycats of Zoroastrianism. Also, I'm pretty sure we don't want to hear the 'faith' thing please.

You will not get it, friend. If it is not in their book, then it doesn't exist, and by the way, every single word in there is "the word of God" and "the words of Jesus," and even though they cannot see through their rose colored glasses, they will continue to preach at you until doomsday by posting endless scripture and witnessing for their "Lord and Master," who to me is nothing but a Reptilian who disguises himself as Christ in visions and such. I too have studied the origins of religions and came to the same conclusions as you did, plus all religion is loosely based on ancient Sun worship.

reply to post by Mooradian


Great Info,,,I have been wondering about this . I will look into your info when I have more time. A while back,I was looking through an Almanac and noticed that this religion is still practiced by a minority in Iran.

Thanks for posting this! S&F

Originally posted by autowrench

Christians, please counter this information and tell me WHY The largest three religions on Earth are not copycats of Zoroastrianism. Also, I'm pretty sure we don't want to hear the 'faith' thing please.

You will not get it, friend. If it is not in their book, then it doesn't exist, and by the way, every single word in there is "the word of God" and "the words of Jesus," and even though they cannot see through their rose colored glasses, they will continue to preach at you until doomsday by posting endless scripture and witnessing for their "Lord and Master," who to me is nothing but a Reptilian who disguises himself as Christ in visions and such. I too have studied the origins of religions and came to the same conclusions as you did, plus all religion is loosely based on ancient Sun worship.

True that. Jesus was most likely a real person but in my opinion an ET.

I don't see why this is anything amazing or new.

If one was to believe in an omnipresent universal God, it would make perfect sense that this God had revealed himself to many peoples of mankind, and the message would be the same.

reply to post by Mooradian


I accept the challenge of answering the question proposed by the OP.

Isam teaches there were many, many other prophets from God spreading the same message throughout history. Teaches that all parts of the world at different times were sent a Messenger or Prophet. Islam says there are thousands of additional prophets and messengers that were not mentioned in the Bible or Qur'an. New prophets arrived to repurify the earlier prophets message that had been corrupted. But the message was always the same, One God.

So from a "religiously Islamic" point of view, the similarities are expected to occur between different prophets and messengers, from different parts of the world, and different times.

Zoroastrianism is very intereresting; I wish I knew all about it. Couldn't bring myself to read the whole Avesta though.

A fascinating offshoot is the heretical branch of Zorastrianism known as Zurvanism. This probably had a very profound impact on all sorts of more "covert" traditions, such as Western esotericism, some extreme forms of Islam and Judaism, perhaps even the thought of the Cathars and Bogomils.

I also think its interesting that the Zorastrians speak of Haoma which seems very similar if not analogous (both in name and meaning) to the Hindu Soma. Lots of hidden links yet to be uncovered in the ancient world...

Originally posted by silent thunder
Zoroastrianism is very intereresting; I wish I knew all about it. Couldn't bring myself to read the whole Avesta though.

A fascinating offshoot is the heretical branch of Zorastrianism known as Zurvanism. This probably had a very profound impact on all sorts of more "covert" traditions, such as Western esotericism, some extreme forms of Islam and Judaism, perhaps even the thought of the Cathars and Bogomils.

I also think its interesting that the Zorastrians speak of Haoma which seems very similar if not analogous (both in name and meaning) to the Hindu Soma. Lots of hidden links yet to be uncovered in the ancient world...

edit on 10/12/10 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)

While i completely agree that Christianity is a more recent incarnation of Zoroastrianism (hence the symbolic transference of the 'trinity' to the west through 3 magi) Zoroastrianism is no more similar to Judaism than the other pagan religions of the period.

There is an enormous misunderstanding of what Abraham brought to the world. In Judaism its taught that abraham DID NOT invent the concept of monotheism. As we can clearly see, Zororastrianism, Indo European religion, Vedas in the east, Egypt in west and the religion of Sumer, in other words, the ancient world prior to the advent of Abraham ALREADY completely understood in the unity of the cosmos. That was NOT the issue. Polytheism does not imply a disunity. It simply emphasizes plurality in addition to a unity. If any has studied mythology you can see that this is the case, in both the ancient past and today in eastern religions liek hinduism, buddhism, Sikhism etc.

The metaphysical reality of those days were the same as today. This spiritual philosophy has been called "the perennial philosophy" or the "traditionalist school". Its a philosophical appreciation of reality that runs through ALL religions in the world.

To understand what Abraham changed you have to understand what was the dominant spiritual theology of Abrahams day. Prior to Abraham, the nations of the world believed in a unified cosmos. They believed that one spiritual reality permeated all existence. It was this reality that the Zoroastrians defied in the form of Fire and called Ahura Mazda. So, this is a common concept that the profane do not understand. People do not worship fire in itself or water, or stones. These are physical representations of a spiritual concept. Fire is considered the highest element. It is pure 'spirit'. Fire penetrates air as energy(lightning), Air permeates water (bubbles), Water saturates earth. See the obvious heirarchy? The creator imbued intelligence in his creation and a spiritual order. The Zoroastrians were an example of a people who deified the highest element, pure spirit (fire).

The ancients believed as todays mystics and metaphysicians on the whole believe, that spirit and matter are irreconcilably opposed to each other, as much as Fire opposes earth.. There are two remedies to this situation. Both involve the separation and mutual existence of both realities, constrained to their own realm of influence. The first is asceticism. Going up to mountains, caves or groves and renouncing the world. By doing so the spiritual soul is purging itself of all vesitage of attachment to the ephemeral physical. The body languishes because of this to the delight of the soul. The second route taken is not one taken by ascetics. This is a route taken by ARISTOCRATS. This second route is demonstrated by the biblical personality Lavan (a historical noble of ancient babylon). He personifies this very mentality and deliberately so (the Jewish tradition seeks to wipe out this spiritual mentality). Lavan means "white" in Hebrew and has the connotation of self righteous surety. Lavans character is riddled with duplicity. At one moment he seems nice to Jacob, invites him into his home and allows him to stay with him. But later on we discover that this was all a ruse to CONTROL Jacob (keep your friends close but your enemies closer). Lavan is the archetypal deciever. He promises Jacob Rachel but instead gives him Leah. He works another 7 years and after that is impelled to spend another 6 years more with Lavan. Throughout that period Lavan changes Jacobs wages 100 times (theres deep esoteric meaning besides the literal in these stories). Lavans philosophy therefore involves a separation between the spiritual and physical. Lying is a paradigm of this. Lying separates the outer - what you say, from the inner - what you intend. This philosophy is BUILT around a moral subjectivity. Like in asceticism, this philosophy seeks to keep the spiritual and physical apart. Except in this case, the body is relinquished to the earth, that is, physical lusts, while the soul remains separated in its own sphere of influence (philosophical, meditative). In this way, both parts of the personality (this is the psychology of CG Jung btw) physical and spiritual, are fed. They are reconciled through a spiritual reality called the "universal self" - an image of wholeness, which unites good, evil, left, right, in the personality of him who patterns himself after it. This is the symbolic meaning of "christ" in Christianity and the Islamic figure of Al Khadir in the Qoran. Its this state of nothingness, void, that is the essence of their spiritual philosophy. Reality is inherently meaningless, and its that in which man should find enjoyment, peace. In this 'void', there is no evil, or good. There is simply 'now' the present, the eternal nothingness. You can see so many reverberations of this mentality in todays New Age, Theosophical culture (ekhart tolle for instance).

So, Abraham came along and criticized not only this spiritual philosophy, which he considered morally repugnant, but also the social system which was exploitive, manipulative and based on a heirarchy of knowledge. Those at the top, the aristocrats had all the power because they had all the knowledge(in regards to the subtle spiritual nature of reality). Whereas the commoners, like the people of today, were fed a false and constructed version of reality. This is the 'magic tekne' that so titillates the whims of the aristocracy. Theyre chief passion is manipulating the masses, creating 'worlds' for them, than 'destorying' worlds. They in other worlds consider themselves gods.

Thus, the inner - their own duplicity, intending one thing but showing another, is compeltely mirrored in the outer world, as one thing being shown, but a totally different thing intended. This is the world 'made in their image'.

Abraham said that the spirit and matter didnt have to me separate. Infact, they should be united! He intuited and also prophetically understood that this physical world is a container for the spiritual content which enlivens it. Therefore, we are supposed to LEARN from the world. Not only that, but our chief interest should be elevating the physical to the level of the spiritual. The physical is the source of evil. So any evil actions, namely, murdering, stealing, sexual offences, blaspheming the creator, worshipping isolated aspects of the creation (idolatry), hurting animals or eating their raw flesh/blood, and establishing a just legal system are bounds by which we can insure that the physical, can be RAISED to the level of the spiritual. Abraham argued a profoundly distict form of social government. He challenged the aristocracy and elite of his time. And its because of this that he was 'thrown into a furnace'.

Abraham spoke of a monotheism that was much more unified than what the ancient pagans spoke of. The Zoroastrians were cult worshippers. They like their pagan brethern instituted 'moral decrees', but infact their elite like our elite regularly transgressed them. Their moral code was simpyl their to establish a semblance of order in society - deemed necessary. But they themeslves were not contingent on the laws they created,.

Conversely, Abraham placed G-d and not man at the center. G-d had to be honored and in so doing his laws would have to meticulously followed. Later on in Jewish history the Torah mandates a social system that is essentially the prototype of a Republican representative government (see Jethros advice to moses).

So, i agree that every religion is in some way connected to the religions of our past. But this is not the case for Judaism. Judaism is absolutely different and any erudite student of religious philosophy will note that.

reply to post by dontreally


You touch on a lot of interesting points but consider this: Your entire argument seems to rest on early Judaism and Abraham. Don't forget that Judaism, like all religions, changed and mutated over time. The mistake of all fundamentalists is to think that there is an early, ancient, and "pure" face to a religion that is somehow "correct" while all later forms of the religion are "corrupt" at best.

Consider the period of Babylonian captivity, when much of the Babylonian Talmud was written and a great deal of intellectual ferment took place within Judaism. I think it is more than arguable that influences from other religions that were floating around the Babylonian/ Persian world -- including Zoroastrianism and Zurvanism -- had an impact on Judaism. Later, when the various forms of kabbala started to take hold, you could argue that some kaballic ideas borrowed heavily from eastern imputs (including Zurvanism). I won't lay out all the evidence (beacuse I'm far from an expert in this area) but convincing scholarship along this line is out there. Just because it happend after Abraham and the Biblical era doesn't make it "invalid" as a form of spirituality,

reply to post by silent thunder


You're right on this subject! Religion influenced people and in return influenced the people influenced the religion of neighboring countries and cultures. It should come at no surprise as to many that there are beliefs and religious figures that are vary similar.

Judaism and Islam both teach and encourage followers to go out and 'Seek Knowledge'.

I get the impression christianity does not want you to think for yourself. I know some people who have told their minister that they are going to read the Qur'an and, the Minister has totally flipped out and discouraged them (you can imagine what was said - involves fire, brimstone, and eternal ....)

Originally posted by silent thunder
reply to post by dontreally

 

You touch on a lot of interesting points but consider this: Your entire argument seems to rest on early Judaism and Abraham. Don't forget that Judaism, like all religions, changed and mutated over time. The mistake of all fundamentalists is to think that there is an early, ancient, and "pure" face to a religion that is somehow "correct" while all later forms of the religion are "corrupt" at best.

Consider the period of Babylonian captivity, when much of the Babylonian Talmud was written and a great deal of intellectual ferment took place within Judaism. I think it is more than arguable that influences from other religions that were floating around the Babylonian/ Persian world -- including Zoroastrianism and Zurvanism -- had an impact on Judaism. Later, when the various forms of kabbala started to take hold, you could argue that some kaballic ideas borrowed heavily from eastern imputs (including Zurvanism). I won't lay out all the evidence (beacuse I'm far from an expert in this area) but convincing scholarship along this line is out there. Just because it happend after Abraham and the Biblical era doesn't make it "invalid" as a form of spirituality,

No, i think theres beauty and validity in all religions.

I do however think that all religions and thus all peoples, from each of the 70 root 'nations' serve a unique purpose, just as the Jewish people and Judaism serves a unique purpose.

The idea of the lion laying with the Lamb touches on this idea; the transcendence of difference between opposing religious beliefs.

As for Judaism borrowing from other cultures. First, it should be understood, and you seem pretty knowledgeable about these things, that not religious tradition is ever separated from their esoteric foundation. All religions, Judaism especially, are based on mystical teachings. The entire Tanakah is one grand puzzle which one can only decode if one Recieves (the meaning of Kabbalah in Hebrew) knowledge of its interpretation from a master in the tradition.

It is taught that certain ideas were assimilated during the Jewish exile in Babylon, however, none of these ideas had any profound effect on the tradition. Infact, the Babylonian Talmud - as the name Talmud would indicate (means 'to learn' in Hebrew) deals with the refinement of the rational, logical mind. Thus, when the Talmud begins a conversation it says "come and hear". Hearing occurs sequentially - one thing after another, imitating the process of analysis and cogitation. Whereas conversely, the Zohar (written in 100 CE by Shimon Bar Yochai) when it begins a discussion, says "come and SEE". Seeing is wholistic. When one sees one sees the 'whole' paralleling the nature of the spirit, which is axiomatic. Thus Talmud has less to do with mysticism (although it does contain many kabbalistic conversations) than it does with reasoning, whereas Zohar deals purely with the spiritual realm.

Also, its taught in Judaism that when Abraham gave gifts to his wife Ketura and set her and her children off to the east, the gifts he gave her were 'esoteric knowledge', as kabbalistic sources maintain. This 'esoteric' knowledge was along the lines of the Sefer Yetzirah (attributed to Abraham). So, the east in fact recieved its knowledge from the middle east, not the other way around. Thus, our extant knowledge of archeology shows that the beginnings of civilization were in the Tigris/Euphrates area. And in fact, the oldest continuously inhabited city on earth is in Israel - Jericho.

Please Note:
No intentional provocation here ... just a “studied” opinion by one person.

////////////
General Notes taken from college lectures: subjects were modern religion origins.
Suggests that modern religions (and languages) were “invented” for economic purposes!
These notes and lectures evolved into a 300-page book written by a friend of mine.
Many details are contained about nations (and continents) and economies past and present.
Too much to list here.

Babylonian / Hebrew / Roman “Money Funnel” Economies
– seek to control populations (wide-area banking systems).

Note: Dates are based on “modern” calendar system
B.C. and A.D. did not exist until middle ages

Phoenicians were “pre-Hebrew”, Semitic (language) society groups that dominated and “governed” trade and finance
(3000 b.c. – 1000 b.c.) (Multi-nation influence) (Entire Mediterranean coastal areas)
“Banking and Finance” was based on Babylonian code systems.

1000 B.C. to year 0:

Hebrew / Jewish “Faiths” and “Laws” were created by “Elitist” financial and trade group scholars.
(from various Semite (language) “Ruling Class” Phoenician influenced nations, and some Greek)
(some “Babylonian” beliefs were “borrowed”) (Especially Financial)
(no “national” borders or boundaries, no genuine single “ethnicities”)
(creates “Judaism”)
(calendar adopted from Chinese trade partnerships) www.eifiles.cn...

Scholars from these groups “create” the Hebrew language (from Phoenician-Canaanite) and create a pre-Latin language (from Greek).

Latin to be used primarily by the trade and financial sub-groups (from different ethnic populations), and military forces.
Latin to be used to consolidate many Italic languages
(mostly “spoken” languages, not “written” at major trade junctions, City of Rome, Carthage, etc.).
www.answers.com...
Hebrew to be used by “Elite” educated scholar groups (consolidated Semitic language).
Latin / Hebrew accounting systems to be used by merchants and scribes.


“Old Testament” created and written by Hebrew “scholars and scribes”.

Attempt to control all other beliefs and consolidate into one belief - for trade and financial control (universal banking).
Consolidates different Semite languages (into Hebrew).
Anti-Paganism.
Used (and enhanced) many exaggerated “Paganistic” stories and myths and folk lore to fit agenda and spread “Jewish” influence (“religious” and financial).
Creates mythical characters.
Jewish “expulsions” and “exiles” created (with ruling governments) to allow Jewish “colonizing” in “open” territories (infiltration of economies).
Creates “historical” “records” to fit the “Jewish” agendas, based on fears and legends.
Hebrew “envoys” and “scouts” (well-educated and multi-lingual) contact “target” territories
– attempt “Judea” conversions (religious and economic goals) prior to military invasions (some success).
Calendar manipulations begin to coincide with “religious” and “historical” events.


“New Testament” created and written by Hebrew “scholars and scribes” - 1st century by secret Roman agreements.

Hebrew Anti-Pagan efforts were failures.
Hebrew beliefs were not widely accepted by general (conquered) populations.
Hebrews create “anti-Jewish” (anti-Semitic) rivalries to set stage for a “new”, more popular “religions”.
Hebrews create un-provable “history” from mythical events and stories and fictional characters.
Roman govt and Hebrew Scholars “align” and “invent” the appearance of being “rivals” (includes military expeditions).
Roman govt accepts and begins codification of “Jewish” financial influences (banking systems).
Hebrew scholars consolidate and re-invent a Latin alphabet, for common use by populations (west).
“New Testament” written in more than one “language” to “accommodate” conquered populations.

Paganisms were the predominant beliefs at the time.

Latin became predominant language (easily understood by conquered populations) in Roman Empire (west).

Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic were widely spoken (east and west).


Roman efforts to control society with a “new” belief (Christianity") – 2nd thru 5th century.

False flag “Laws” enacted to promote “Christianity” and demote “Judaism”.
“Historical” Myths of “Hebrew” slavery and mass discrimination created to enhance the “anti-Semitism” agendas.
“news” and “events” are created of Jewish massacres, expulsions, etc. (some truth) (as sacrificial “investments”).
Allows for more “Jewish Expansion” into new territories (established new trade routes and merchant groups).

Christianity rejected by Arab factions - Roman East.
Christianity generally accepted - Roman West.
Hebrew scholars “create” and write Islam beliefs to counter Christian (and Judea) beliefs (used some Zoroastrianism influences).
en.wikipedia.org...
Arab factions accept Islam and eventually adapt to “Jewish” financial systems.



Sub-Latin languages and “spin-off” Hebrew languages (and some Cyrillic) created and enhanced,
to allow better (religious and economic) “manipulation” of localized populations,
- 6th century thru Middle Ages to present day 21st century.

Establishes strong “ethnic” groups (new nationalities and languages) through local inbreeding after intermingling.
Continuation of “culture – counter-cultures” agendas (religious and economic) among “financially conquered” territories.
Continuation of “Hebrew suppression” myths and Jewish “suffering” to further the financial and power agendas.
Continuation of “governments’” public anti-Semitism agendas and
furthering of “Jewish” privately controlled economies and expansions.
Continuation of Jewish “migrations” and dominance of financial systems.
Continuation of attempted “Judea” conversions (religious and economic goals) prior to military invasions
(some disguised as “Islam” or “Christian”) (some non-military success).
“Dark Ages” (history blackout) created to mask solidification efforts of major “religions” (the ‘Big Three’),
and to backdate, modify and solidify “historical” records and illusions.
Continuation of language and calendar manipulation for economic (and legal) control agendas.
Establishment of “higher learning” institutions for further development of economic agendas and “illusional maintenance”
(economic and political dominance through “education”).

reply to post by dontreally

The Zoroastrians were cult worshippers. They like their pagan brethern instituted 'moral decrees', but infact their elite like our elite regularly transgressed them. Their moral code was simpyl their to establish a semblance of order in society - deemed necessary. But they themeslves were not contingent on the laws they created,.

That's funny, seeing as how under the rule of Cyrus the Great, zoroastrian, things as human rights and freedom of religion for even conquered nations were a given. Workers that were brought in from other nations were paid in silver and gold coins.

I don't think a cult worshipper would be known as an "annointed one" in Judaism right? You know, the zoroastrian who freed the jews from Babylon and brought them back to their home land and helped rebuild their places of worship. You do know this right?

reply to post by Zamini


Hey! You're right!
Thanks for posting the comment! You're a smart person.
Link!

Zoroastrianism maintained astrological records and used them as part of their daily life. It was three wise men from the east that followed a star that led them to the birth of the new age that Christ signified. These three wise men were Zoroastrians, recorded by scribes and scholars of the Bible.

reply to post by ariel bender


Can you prove that? I don't see any proof of that online.
I just see the pagan origins to Jesus and his life.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel




i never said Jesus didn't come from pagan sources...i said the birth of Christ signified an event; namely the changing of ages from Aires to Pisces. The age of Aquarius is coming upon us soon, and this is the " End of age" hysteria that many are panicking about. These events are recorded in the sky; as above so below, or in Bible speak, on earth as it is in Heaven.

The Bible is a record of religious history, a collection in a single source ten thousand years of Humanity's search for its soul, juxtaposed within astro-theology that truly was god(s) we worshiped and sought to appease for all these ages. The Mayan astrological records are the basis for their belief system, just as the tower of Babylon was an astro lab to study the heavens and discern knowledge from the stars, planets and moons.

Astrology is the basis for most of humanity's religious systems, it just gets wrapped up in metaphors and symbols, code words and phrases, parables and stories.