Help me get off the grid

Is it possible to get off the grid ? Can this be done by using geo thermal and solar power ?

What would the cost of such an endeavor be ?

Are there other options to help one get off the grid , other than geo thermal and solar power ?

reply to post by Max_TO


There are possible benefits to "getting off the grid" and converting to a more cost effective and independent green energy system. Depending upon where you live, local statutes and laws, if you turn to green energy and stay plugged into the grid, you may even be able to get the local government and power companies to pay you for the power your system supplies. This is possible in some places in Nevada, Henderson being one such example. However, are you going to be residing at this home for a long enough time to break even and start making a savings....

Concerning Geothermal Energy Conversion:

Over this past winter (2008/2009), my average electrical bill was $367. Their average electrical bill was $154. Removing the fact that my home is larger and I have one extra person living in the house, I am going to look at how long it would take me to pay for a geo-thermal system.

With a difference in monthly bills of $213 dollars, and the average cost of geothermal at $35 000, it would take me 164 months to break even with the system. (This is based on current expenses, and does not factor in that electrical and gas bills will be increasing in the future). 164 months is 13.5 years before I can start to realize any savings.

The chances of me living in this house in 13.5 years is slim, it is reported that most people move every 5 to 8 years, that being the case, I would not recoup my expenses on the geo-thermal system.
Source & More

Pros & Cons of Geothermal Energy:

Pros and cons

The foremost advantage of geothermal heating is its being environment-friendly. Its source of energy is natural, the heat from the underneath the earth, so there’s no worry about any hazardous effects to the surroundings unlike those that burn fossil fuels. There’s no tax imposed and there’s always constant supply.

Secondly, it’s efficient and cost effective. Being energy efficient means less electricity costs and this, in turn, leads to savings. Additionally, this is around 70 percent cheaper than heating a home using electric heating, oil or liquefied petroleum gas.

A third benefit is its compact size. A typical geothermal heating using a heat pump is just about the same size as a small fridge and works in two ways – for both heating and cooling.

Another advantage is its low maintenance. As natural ground energy is used, no hazardous chemicals are produced, no flammable oil, LPG or gas pipes, fuel tanks or chimney are used. No regular servicing or yearly checks are required.

On the contrary, some disadvantages found for this system include the use of refrigerants. Refrigerants as well as the electricity to power the heat pump are not totally eco-friendly.

Wide space and long pipes are also needed to lay the pipe system in trenches which means it is not ideal for suburban neighborhoods which are densely populated. The pipes may prove difficult to repair as they’re underground.

Lastly, for areas that need vertical installation of pipes, drilling may be a hard task and a big rig is even required.

Geothermal Pros & Cons

Solar Power Cost Differentials and Statistical Data:

Price Breakdown
Everyone in America receives a 30 percent tax credit on solar equipment purchased and installed by the end of 2010. State incentives can further compound the savings.

Price per unit /// Between $717 and $787 before the 30 percent federal tax credit. Afterward, the price drops to about $500.

Price per watt /// $4.50. Andalay Solar CEO Barry Cinnamon expects imminent price reductions to pull that number closer to $4.10 per watt. With the 30 percent federal tax credit, the price works out to about $2.87 per watt.

Kilowatt-hours per year /// A single panel puts out 175 watts under optimal conditions. Averaged through the year under variable conditions, the panel puts out 1.43 kilowatt-hours per watt, or about 250 kwh per year.

Payback period: The Energy Information Administration lists average U.S residential electricity prices at 11.23 cents per kwh, as of February 2009. A panel that puts out 250 kwh a year saves $28.08 annually at that price, making the payback period just under 18 years on a $500 panel. (The rebate, which everyone receives, lowers the payback period from over 25 years at $717 or 28 at $787) In San Francisco, the top-tier electricity rate is 44 cents per kwh, shortening the payback period to just under five years.

Drawbacks: Variable power output. Less sunny climates can produce less than the 250-kwh-a-year average. Less than a quarter of the sunlight hitting a panel converts to electricity.
Popular Mechanics Solar Power

Another Option is Wind Power. There are new and improved forms of Windmills

Wind power usually brings to mind those giant, prop-style turbines in Denmark or their much smaller cousins, like the 900-watt Whisper 100 that our PM's off-the-grid Energy Family uses in Vermont. As those innovative solutions have proved, wind can be a great compliment to solar power--and the rest of this country is just starting to catch up. So as we move forward with Jay Leno on transforming his Green Garage, you'll probably see a rooftop solar panel array augmented by wind power to help the shop generate its own energy and become self-sufficient.

Recently, Jay had a chance to meet up with the folks from PacWind, a company that makes vertical-axis wind turbines like the 500-watt Seahawk they brought by the garage. Drag-type vertical turbines such as these move a lot like those three-cup anemometers commonly used for measuring wind speed. But the PacWind design is unique in that its foils utilize the forces of lift, too, making them more efficient.

The Seahawk was just one example of Pacwind's turbines--and Jay was impressed. But for the 17,000-sq-ft. garage, which uses, um, quite a bit of energy each month, the PacWind team recommended their brand-new, top-of-the-line Delta II turbine. It can produce 10 kw at around 28 mph and has a cut-in wind speed of 6 mph. These turbines don't need a braking mechanism and can self-start at very low wind speeds--something similar designs in the past could never do. Generating usable wind power can be quite tricky, since wind is fickle and performance can vary from place to place. But according to Pacwind, Jay's garage looks like a very suitable spot.
Popular Mechanics & PacWind Tech Article

PacWind/WEPOWER Vertical Axis Wind Turbines

PacWind / WEPOWER Home
More concerning verticle axis wind turbines

There are various designs, sizes, models and ranging in cost and energy delivery and supply.






Or ... Make your own:



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I would suggest, that to augment your "Off the grid" independent power grid, you might do well to accompany your power source with generators, or emergency generators. Some can be relatively portable.

Also, I think you may get more juice from the verticle axis wind turbines than from solar panels.


Hope some of this helps,
ET

reply to post by Max_TO


If you pay rent, mortgage or property taxes - you're not off the grid.

I figure the only way for a male to go off the grid is to be a gigalow or schmoozer who lives off of somebody else.

Then, there's always the ever so helpful friends and family who post your pictures online; the ones who want to use an automatated "bill pay" to repay loans of monetary gifts and so on and so on ...

So, even your own family and friends couldn't know where you are.

Then, without a work history or SSN - you can't get a job. Heck, all the employers now ask for INTERNET resumes!

P.S. Oh wait! Did you mean off the electrical grid?


Then, with cameras and scanners in nearly every store ... and police now LEGALLY slapping GPS tracking devices on vehicles ... you'd have to forgo shopping and owning a vehicle.

If you have children, going off the grid is impossible.

Are you SURE you want to be 'disappeared'? I mean, if something happened to you, nobody would know to sing and dance at your funeral? If you had any illness, you'd be on your own. A serious accident and boom - you're back on the grid if your unconscious body gets hauled to a hospital.

Are you SURE?

reply to post by Max_TO
They say everyone needs to get off the grid, if we get the bad soler flares like they had in 1859, it's going to frie the grid and everyone connected.

The one dude in Kentucky was suppose to have the price down on solar to 10 cents per watt by 2010, has not happened yet.
This would be great 10,000 watts would only cost $1,000 , right not the whole job is about at least $25,000 with labor, I'll do it myself.

Yes I was talking to a friend he wanted me to make some small wind mills for general public, do it your selfer, he's building, selling these giant million dollar job, for investors. With all the perks is good, you get all the money, or most, from the Government for all this stuff.

When you say off the grid do you mean total independence or just your power needs?Independent power is the easy part,been doing it for years, shunning society and its rules and regulations is the tricky part.It can be done but you have to give up a lot of luxuries,are you prepared to do that?The best way in my opinion is throw yourself in the deep end,and learn to swim quickly, in other words become an absolute minimalist and give away or sell all your possessions that wont be needed to survive.Good luck to you .

Passive solar and wood heat are your easiest heating options.
Grow your own garden and keep livestock - chickens/goats/ducks.
Live in an area where you can hunt and deer can keep your freezer full of meat.
Small game like squirrels and rabbits are an easy source of game meat.

I lived this way for several years and our grocery bills were cut in half.
Had we shopped and bought in quantity from wholesalers like Sam's club we would've saved even more.

It's a lot of work to do these things and you can never leave for long.
That is the trade-off one must make.
Good luck to you.