Sorry only read 6 pages in... gotta post sometime...
As for FreeMason's want for "facts" and his comments regarding Bowling...
FreeMason: to quote you... "He blamed K-mart and Charleton Heston for Columbine." Wow! Did you watch the same movie that I did? From what I
gathered he came to NO SOLID CONCLUSION about what caused it. The majority of the movie was him asking those some questions... Why did it happen? What
influenced them? The K-Mart stuff was because it happened to have been where the Columbine kids bought the bullets, which is completely relevant
because bullets shouldn't be sold to kids. PERIOD. Try to justify it for hunting, and I'll say their parents can buy the ammo for them... big whoop,
minor inconvenience to minors. Adolescents have way too many hormonal issues to be trusted with ammo for weapons... sorry to all the teens here, but
it's true... one day you'll look back and say "what was I thinking" and then realize you weren't.
And as for blaming Charleton Heston, Moore was essentially trying to find out why the NRA rushes to hold conventions in or near the towns that where
kids were murdered in schools (shortly after it happens... which is why it's disrespectful to the community) and also to get Charlie's opinion on
why we have such a high rate of gun violence compared to everyone else (other countries).
In reality, the movie did not try to provide ANY answers other than fear (and accessibility to ammo via Kmart). Fear does seem like the most logical
motivator in our society. When comparing all the issues our society believes to be responsible, we aren't too different from other developed
countries (in terms of the social/legal "environment" or "conditions")... There is no doubt that he asked all kinds of questions, and focused on
some of them more than others... but if you interpreted the movie to be about blaming Kmart & Heston, I'd recommend watching it again and trying to
be objective. He asks questions and raises points but really doesn't point the finger. Oh, and you forgot him "blaming" bowling too... but that, as
his other possibilities, is just that... a possibility. I enjoyed the fact that he said "why can't it be this or that" versus what the media was
saying (mainly covering gatherings by fundamentalist "Christians"... errr Reublicans), "it was marilyn manson & violent videogames" or because
they were "losers & anti-social". In reality only those kids knew.
My questions is why was Moore so nice in bowling? The first finger I'd point would be at the parents. I grew up a goth kid, as did most of my
friends, and you know what? I had parents that taught me right from wrong (as did my friends). No killing here... I played Doom, Mostal Kombat, etc &
listened to "goth" music and heavy metal... Why am I not psycho? Oh that's right, because when you are an impressionable youth, it's the job of
your parents to educate you on the real world. I'm not saying the parents are to blame entirely, but some of the weight has to fall back that way.
Now, as for wanting "facts" from F911? This specifically can't be percieved as "interpretation" or lying as it is coming straight from Bush & his
administration's mouths. I'm talking about video recordings of Bush & his buddies contradicting themselves surrounding Iraq (via video clips from
various news sources). A few press conferences in the months just prior to 9/11 (the Condoleeza one in 7/01 comes to mind) they stated Saddam Huessein
poses absolutely no threat to America or it's interests. And this may not be verbatim, but it's pretty close, "they have no capabilities for
creating or maintaining any weapons programs, and we have been very successful in preventing arms from entering the country". There were a couple
people from Bush's cabinet (again Condoleeza being one) that assured that Saddam had NOTHING, then just a couple months later, they had "irrefutable
proof" (as stated by Bush himself, and more of his cabinet). They knew for a "FACT" that Iraq had them as well as all of the locations. Then,
again, shortly after that, they say "we don't know" and no talk of it since. Yeah, that's really freakin' credible in my book.
Seems to me like they said what the needed to to get the support they wanted. I see no honor or truth in what they have done. At least with Moore, he
puts himself out there and says why he thinks what he does. He says it as he sees it and what that is. But Bush and his followers tend to say stuff,
and have nothing to back it up other than "patriotism" and "love" for the country and it's people.
Please understand though, I trust Moore about as far as I can throw him. But the fact of the matter is that Bush and the Administration has been just
as manipulative as Moore. So that's what I will take it as... neither side is 100% correct. Personally I'll take a healthy combination of viewpoints
which provide me with a more balance ground to make up my own mind.
Anyway, got any other proof about the untruths in Bowling? And I'm looking for something in the way of "factual evidence" instead of "I wasn't
really paying attention and this is what I walked away with".
Also, one more thing Freemason, the attacks on anyone that doesn't agree with you have got to stop man. First off, it doesn't do anything to make
you seem more intelligent or better than anyone (as you love to tout). When you call people names for being "ignorant" in your view, it says
something much different to the rest of us than you intend. Most of us are wanting to have a normal discussion (not flame war), and voice all sides,
so that we may determine for ourselves. As for your Shakespeare quote... Tis very good... I also enjoy this one from Socrates...
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."