I just saw Fahrenheit 9/11....

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JAK

posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 06:07 AM
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In case anyone was interested I thought I'd post a few links to the film that many say Mr Moore stole the idea for his Fahrenheit 9/11 from, "Alex Jones 911 - The road to Tyranny".
I offer these because most links that I found were not working, these ones definitely do at present.

Working links offering D/L are available at:

movies06.archive.org... (233 meg)

videos.c0balt.com... (35.6 meg)

and the follow up to this is available for D/L at:

movies07.archive.org... (89.85 meg)

I haven't seen Fahrenheit 9/11 myself yet but I thought those that have might like to view Alex Jones film in comparison.




posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 10:34 AM
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I havent seen the film yet- but i did see Bowling for Columbine.

Yes i do think his views can be one sided, but he makes alot of good points, and if you take the time to research you willl find alot of his points are true or have some evidence to back them up.

I dont think that he 'hates' America, he just tells a few home truths...



posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by misspickle
I dont think that he 'hates' America, he just tells a few home truths...


well, lets just say that im opneing a bookstore (fact) and there is a section containing several peoples works, on being moore, (fact) and this section is going to be called "Books by People Who hate America but Still Live Here."




posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 10:54 AM
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fairenough scat- but has he actualy said' I hate America' and why doesnt he just move if he hates it so much?

Still i havent seen the movie and have only read reviews which are mixed opinions.

Like i said before he can be one-sided and i suppose you have to watch with an open mind.



posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 12:19 PM
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Brand new here, been reading the past 15 pages of posts and no one mentions "The Base"?

That, to me was probably the MOST OFFENSIVE jabber out of GW's face.

The quote was something along the line of:

We have here the HAVES and the HAVE MORES, some people call you elite, I call you my BASE.

FreeMason, with all your schooling and wisdom, enlighten me as to the reason our President would say this aloud???? If I am totally missing the point, again enlighten me.



posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 12:27 PM
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I wouldn't waste your time with FreeMason, or you might get warned on your first day....uh, like me


That's a really good point tho - It totally slipped my mind...what's more unbelievable than that quote is the fact that this fottage was readily available for Moore's use - Do they just not care?? I think they see the American's in the same light as the church saw the their peasents during the seeling of indlugences....I hope those of us who disagree are strong enough to show them we have the upper hand



posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 12:32 PM
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I think moore is an idiot, but I still want to see the movie.

O yea, did anyone read his interveiw with "playboy magazine", he makes himself look like a real loser. It's funny, you should read it.



posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 12:37 PM
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I disagree with a few things Moore says - overall I really enjoyed the movie though...but what really lights my fire is how he stole the name for the movie from Ray Bradbury - that was low, and he continues to ignore any confrontations about his movie that involve negative criticism - that's so hypocritical it's not even funny...but I don't think that undermines his validity when he's "in his moment" behind the director's chair.



posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 03:17 PM
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I thought the movie was great. Moore skews some of his facts a bit, to further his point, but you can't really blame him too much.

This is a documentary but it's also there to make MONEY.


I saw an interview with Michael Moore on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart and Jon asked him "In this film are you fair to George Bush?". (I'm paraphrasing)

Moore said, "No, I'm trying to show people what my OPINION is, and why it's my opinion. It's not fair and balanced, it's skewed to my beliefs because I am the one who made the film."



posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by Jakomo Moore said, "No, I'm trying to show people what my OPINION is, and why it's my opinion. It's not fair and balanced, it's skewed to my beliefs because I am the one who made the film."


What is a political opinion? It's a biased point of view. What is freedom of speech? It's the right to voice your opinions. Those who blast Moore out of the water for being overly critical and falsifying "all" of his information are dead ducks in the water...



posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 06:39 PM
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Exactly! It is an opinion!!!! Fox News reports there are a Dozen points critics take exception to. I'd love to know just what 12 or so points they (actually who is "they"?) take exception to, and does that mean they agree with the other hundred or so points of the film?



posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by misspickle
I dont think that he 'hates' America, he just tells a few home truths...


Oh, I guess insulting all Americans, not only Bush, everytime he gets a chance doesn't mean he hates the US...... Truths? he called the people in flight 93 cowards, obviously he had no idea they fought to the death. There you have another piece of evidence on how well Moore did his research for his books or movies.....

Also saying that Bush allowed the Bin Ladin and other Saudis to leave when it was Clarke who did this alone....that shows his side of truth....they should be called Moore's fantasies....


Bowling for Columbine was a really bad "mockumentary"...his lies were even worse on that one. As he has said previously...."He doesn't give a ____ about anyone, but himself."



posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib


Oh, I guess insulting all Americans, not only Bush, everytime he gets a chance doesn't mean he hates the US...... Truths?










muaddib, you need to get over it and move on, dude. Moore has never said he hated Americans,........ your trying to make something out of nothing. You just can't stand it that Moore had the balls to tell the truth about Bush & Co.





posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 07:21 PM
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Whatever you believe, whoever you are for, at least Moore gave us something to think about and discuss. Thank God I am an American and can express my OPINIONS and beliefs!

Wanna see a lame film? Go watch Dodgeball..... just as you have that yummy feel good feeling.... don't get up and leave during the credits, sit back and wait.....then you'll find yourself with a different feeling.

Maybe that is all Moore wants, for us to sit back and think alittle bit, even if some think he goes overboard getting us to do it.



posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by misspickle
fairenough scat- but has he actualy said' I hate America' and why doesnt he just move if he hates it so much?



You don't have to come out and say "I hate America" if you've been around long enough you learn that people make under handed comments as well as snide and treasonous remarks against their country.


What he did say in England was " Even the stupid british people are smarter then the average American"............



posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 11:25 PM
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snide, yes...rude, yes - truth? pretty much...He's an advacator for his cause, and that is to get people to think

If that means he hates America, then he's doing a bad job of keeping us misinformed, thus thrusting a knife in our back.



posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by billionairforbush
Wanna see a lame film? Go watch Dodgeball..... just as you have that yummy feel good feeling.... don't get up and leave during the credits, sit back and wait.....then you'll find yourself with a different feeling.


HEY! nobody makee me bleed my own blood!

NOBODY!
but you have to give it up, moore willalways lose. why? because the fact that he lives in america means he will ALWAYS be able to produce his movies, and he can always "expose the truth" thank you first ammendment! now, he cant win, because no matter what, the government is letting him do his thing.



posted on Jul, 1 2004 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
snide, yes...rude, yes - truth? pretty much...He's an advacator for his cause, and that is to get people to think

If that means he hates America, then he's doing a bad job of keeping us misinformed, thus thrusting a knife in our back.

Actually, let me clear that up a little bit, because after reading it it looks a little confusing to me...Let me try this again

Treason - "betrayal of country: violation of the allegiance owed by a person to his or her own country, for example, by aiding an enemy."

Opinion - "personal view: the view somebody takes about a certain issue, especially when it is based solely on personal judgment." Ex...In my opinion its all a waste of time.

Now...this is a public forum where opinions (see above) of all kinds are taken into consideration...and I can only say that I hold mine higher than I hold yours because it is, in fact, an opinion...

Treason, on the other hand - has a clear and concise boundry - no wiggle room, really...well, depending on who is hearing the case of treason and their motives - but that's at a higher level, like Supreme Court. But for ATS, let's stick with that definition.

I'd like it if you could explain, with details from the film, not opinions (see above) of other Moore bashers who have seen it, that proves your case for treason and I'll listen.



posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 12:32 PM
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REVIEW OF MICHAEL MOORE'S FAHRENHEIT 9-11

I went to see Fahrenheit 9-11 on Monday night (28 June 2004) in Miami just to see what all the fuss was about...... and to my "shock and awe" the only seats available were for the 10:50pm showing....2500 people showed up, and I just barely managed to get a seat. The film lasted until after 1 in the morning.

This was Late Monday Night--- and the theatre was packed to the rafters. Now that tells you something about this Film....!!

The average age of the men and women in the audience? I would say "about 23 years old" (way younger that I had anticipated) and it was an experience to see so many young people glued to their seats the whole time without so much as a fidget (which also should tell you something about the film).

Was Fahrenheit 9-11 nothing but strung-together anti-Bush Propaganda?

Well, yes....and no. Moore did string together a great deal of "hard news" information which was kept OUT of the American Press: e.g. the number of dead and mutilated Iraqi civilians, especially young children, are actually shown IN COLOUR often with their body parts blown out, we see the anguish on the face of several Iraqi mothers who've lost their entire family in the bombing (asking Why are you Doing This to Us? What did WE do to YOU Americans?): also, there are hints to the Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Scandal which violated the 4th Geneva Convention which left the audience visibly shaken.

Moore also showed the unmistakeable fact that throughout the heavy March-April 2003 bombings, the US deliberately targeted Iraqi civilian locations (e.g. marketplaces, schools, banks, libraries, and other "civilian infrastructures" meant to emotionally paralyse the already "economically sanctioined" Iraqi population and "bomb them back" a few technological centuries), and Moore included a touching human interest in the story involving a "real life" Flint, Michigan "patriotic flag waiving" American mother whose son was killed in action.

Michael Moore is of course also from Flint MI, and so the implication is that this whole mess has touched him personally.

Moore's clever (and sometime cruel) splicing-together of interviews pepper the film (at one point, Moore approaches some US congressmen with young adult children to ask them to get their "kids" to sign up for duty) and the looks on the congressmen's faces speaks volumes about the double standard of the ruling elite in this country.

This is the kind of brave "journalism" effect which clearly was one of the highlights of the film.

But, by the same token, Mr Moore left a good bit of the hard facts of the "larger" story OUT which would have produced a counter-visceral reaction (e.g. Moore's choice deliberately NOT to show visuals of the hijacked planes crashing into the World Trade Center in NYC).

Also curiously absent from Moore's film was any referecne to Israel, and especially the FIVE LAUGHING ISRAELI MOSSAD AGENTS who were arrested the morning of 9-11 perched atop the adjacent bldg to the WTC taking pictures of the event as it happened.

Transcripts of their detention and interrogation by the FBI and CIA are now classified TOP SECRET by the US Govt, as are ANY Israeli links to 9-11, are "Classified Top Secret: National Security Issue") and apparently involved the socalled "Babylonian Exile" term "Operation Shekinah"(which Americans have re-named Shock-And-Awe)

But he DID mention the FACT that 11 out of ther 15 hijackers were SAUDIs (and NONE were in fact, Iraqis) and showed a number of times the "doublespeak" (read: lies) of the US government (including Ms Condoleeza Rice, Mr Wolfowitz, Mr Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld) on the pseudo-connection between Saddam Hussein and 9-11, as well as the socalled Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs) and the "pending threat" to the US of Iraq and Al-Qaida which they all claimed for half a year ad nauseam were somehow in cahoots.

The lies of the present Administration were exposed again and again, something which the US press has been loathe to point out with any vigour until fairly recently.

Also featured in the film was the Bush Family's disturbing and long-standing Saudi connection (generally avoided in the US press) and the fact that several prominent members of the (Saudi born) Bin Laden family were allowed special transportation to leave the US on 9-13 at a time when US citizens were grounded, and the fact that the Bin Ladens were allowed to leave the country without being interrogated by the CIA or the FBI raises some disturbing questions about Bush and his "PNAC" circle of oilmen.

Moore however "mysteriously" left out Bush' s "Masonic" Skull and Bones Connection at Yale University (both Kerry and Bush are members of that Elite Establishment which boasts a number of corporate and high level political leaders in the US): that would have added a little credibility to his film, but may have tarnished Kerry and the Democratic ticket...it seems Moore wants specifically to reveal ONLY the dirt on proBush Republicans

On balance was actually kind of a refreshing to see another view (knowing that the editing was deliberately provacative in advance), that is, apart from all the blind pro-war, blind pro-Zionist, blind pro-Bush propaganda that Americans have been subjected to since before the invasion of Iraq in the US "news" (or rather, Dis-InfoTainment) over the 5 corporate controlled major news media outlets (e.g. CBS NBC ABC CNN FOX, which means ONLY 5 Corporations control almost ALL of the "News" that passes over the airwaves in the US).

The impression one has while leaving the theatre is: the American people have been duped (again!) and lied-to by an Administration who cares nothing for the Truth, or else feels the average American "can't handle the truth" about our real reasons for being over there in the first place in the 21st century : O-I-L.



posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 12:58 PM
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Muaddib- i obviously hit a sore point or something all i can say is put your handbag away.

He is just putting across his opinion- you know the right to free speech and all...





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