Archaeologists Discover Lost Civilization Under The Melting Arctic

Originally posted by Aliensun
The problem with your text-book definition, Phage, is that it is self-defiining: Civilizations 'R US! Yahoo!..We did it! We made the arbitary cut. Yahoo, again!

Way to dismiss any and all forms of languages.

words mean stuff...if words could mean anything, then they might as well mean nothing. a civilization is defined by -its defination-...not by some "well why cant it mean me, or jellyfish, or..-
there are other words for that...its not some exclusivity club, its a description of a bloody stage.


This like being a christian without believing in God or Christ...you are a christian because you like the title, and why should followers of christ be the only christians..how very elitist of them

-sighs-

if the word doesn't fit...then use a fitting word, dont simply redefine the word.

Funny enough I always thought of a shoe, (the link does say shoe, and it sort of looks like a shoe) as part of a culture. Needed they are, but they are also cultural, like the ancient Chinese. They had a special place in their culture for shoes. Other cultures wore mainly sandals, and as for us modern heathens, until recently we didn't know the left foot from the right foot.

reply to post by againuntodust


Like i said the "average" temperature theres being 97.6 degrees and fluctauting from that.

reply to post by loam


Wow! Plato was way off on the location of Atlantis. Not only the location but who knew when he said under water, he meant ice.

Serious note: This is really cool. I am always amazed at the locations that ancient humans were able to survive.

I cant wait to hear more.

Originally posted by Camtheconspiracyman
reply to post by Essan

 

still it says a Japanese Atlantis .......... How can you compete that it is the worlds oldest stone building and built 5000 years before the oldest Egyptian pyramid?

There is not a single bit of construction to be found anywhere on that natural stone formation which, by the way, sank around the turn of the first millenium.

Harte

reply to post by Harte



One of the greatest discoveries in the history of archaeology was made last summer, off Japan There, spread over an amazing 311 miles on the ocean floor, are the well-preserved remains of an ancient city. Or at the very least, a number of closely related sites. A structure thought to be the world's oldest building, nearly twice the age of the great pyramids of Egypt, has been discovered. The rectangular stone ziggurat under the sea off the coast of Japan could be the first evidence of a previously unknown Stone Age civilisation, say archeologists. The monument is 600ft wide and 90ft high and has been dated to at least 8000BC. The oldest pyramid in Egypt, the Step Pyramid at Saqqara, was constructed more than 5,000 years later. The structure off Yonaguni, a small island southwest of Okinawa, was first discovered 75ft underwater by scuba divers 10 years ago and locals believed it was a natural phenomenon.

Professor Masaki Kimura, a geologist at Ryukyu University in Okinawa, was the first scientist to investigate the site and has concluded that the mysterious five-layer structure was man-made. "The object has not been manufactured by nature. If that had been the case, one would expect debris from erosion to have collected around the site, but there are no rock fragments there," he said. In the waters around Okinawa and beyond to the small island of Yonaguni, divers located eight separate locations beginning in March 1995. The discovery of what appears to be a road surrounding the building was further evidence that the structure was made by humans, he added.

So you either didn't read the article or doubt what a scientific geologist has to say about it? Then where is the evidence of erosion? You do not think my friend ( or you don't like to read). Either way you can doubt this all you want.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
reply to post by loam

 

Wow! Plato was way off on the location of Atlantis. Not only the location but who knew when he said under water, he meant ice.

Whew, bit of a down grade on Atlantis' level of progress. I mean, bows shoes and sticks?

Sorry, have bait, will bite.

Anyway, this is rather fascinating in and of itself, whether it's advanced or not so advance, it does add weight to the cycles of climate, as opposed to a static climate. It could also indicate movement of the continents (or the crust in general) making parts more habitable at times then they are now.

Originally posted by Skid Mark
Every time I hear about a lost civilization like this, I can't help but think of HP Lovecraft stories. Now, if an island with strange buildings suddenly emerges from the sea, I'll really wonder lol.

I know what you mean, The Mountains of Madness comes to me about an ancient civilization in the South Pole. You know we keep thinking that civilization is at it's pinnacle right now. But who's to say that civilization didn't reach some form of pinnacle tens of thousands of years ago or even half a million years ago. And then some cataclysm happened (before the most recent one of the flood cataclysm that happened at the end of the last Ice Age) that swamped it all away into the ocean or under mud or ash. Heck, we may go through a cycle of ice ages that bring down civilizations every time. I saw that program of life after people, and it showed how much of civilization can disappear if enough time goes by. I remember one guy from the history channel who was a skeptic on ancient aliens and advanced civilizations how come everyone built things with massive stones or stones. Also why didn't they build skyscrapers and such. I say that it all depends on the thinking of the people at that time and their views in regard to their world around them. Maybe different civilizations where more in tune with nature and wanted to keep their society more open to it.

We do know one thing, and that is they may not have computers of the type that we have today but we don't know how they built megalithic structures with such ease. We may know things, but they knew things also.

Originally posted by Camtheconspiracyman
reply to post by Harte

 

One of the greatest discoveries in the history of archaeology was made last summer, off Japan There, spread over an amazing 311 miles on the ocean floor, are the well-preserved remains of an ancient city. Or at the very least, a number of closely related sites. A structure thought to be the world's oldest building, nearly twice the age of the great pyramids of Egypt, has been discovered. The rectangular stone ziggurat under the sea off the coast of Japan could be the first evidence of a previously unknown Stone Age civilisation, say archeologists. The monument is 600ft wide and 90ft high and has been dated to at least 8000BC.

No archaeologist has said anything like the above.

The only date associated with this natural formation is that of 2000 YBP. It went under around the turn of the first millenium.

Professor Masaki Kimura, a geologist at Ryukyu University in Okinawa, was the first scientist to investigate the site and has concluded that the mysterious five-layer structure was man-made. "The object has not been manufactured by nature. If that had been the case, one would expect debris from erosion to have collected around the site, but there are no rock fragments there," he said. In the waters around Okinawa and beyond to the small island of Yonaguni, divers located eight separate locations beginning in March 1995. The discovery of what appears to be a road surrounding the building was further evidence that the structure was made by humans, he added.

Kimura, two decades later and after further research, is the one that says it sank 2,000 years ago.

So you either didn't read the article or doubt what a scientific geologist has to say about it? Then where is the evidence of erosion? You do not think my friend ( or you don't like to read). Either way you can doubt this all you want.

Even Robert Schoch says it's natural. Apparently, you don't make much effort to keep up, do you?

If you think I don't already know every single thing there is to know about Yonaguni Jima, then search under my posts for that term.

Harte

Originally posted by pryingopen3rdeye
reply to post by Phage

 

civilization - The act or process of civilizing or reaching a civilized state
bows, arrows, etc indicate a group, to co exist, they must be somewhat civilized,

yeah that does sound like it

cool thread.

Yes well... I know or we all know that phage can be such a pain sometimes, and I actually read what he said and had that same reaction, but then I stopped to think - phage is actually right.

Look I graduated in history and archaeology and actually "civilization" comes from "civilis" (citizen) and "civitas" (city) so... yea phage is right. Its not a record of a civilization (not yet at least) but a record of "human presence" at a given time, like "dumbdork was here in 20000 bc" graffiti.

The act of being civil does not portray or define a "civilization", you're sounding like adam smith (plus if we get to the meaning of "civil" and "civilized" and we look at our society we risk to reach the grim conclusion that we're not actually part of a civilization by definition but a conglomerate of people )

So phage is right - for now until further notice - a shoe, bows and arrows, do not describe or define a civilization. Right now its just a "finding" saying "humans were there at any given time". No civilization.

But I do know where you come from. And that "the act or process of being civilized" is from the dictionary and it only applies when talking about a certain civilization that conquers and forces their culture upon less advanced people - you're definition continues with the example - "Rome's civilization of barbaric tribes was admirable"

In the same dictionary you also found "an advanced state of human society, in which a high level of culture, science, industry, and government has been reached.", "those people or nations that have reached such a state" and "any type of culture, society, etc., of a specific place, time, or group: Greek civilization". But you didnt use any of the first three results and went to the fourth, which was indeed better suited for your objective - to contradict phage using any means necessary, prolly based on some personal grudge - but hes right shoes, bows and arrows dont define a culture, social structure or a high population density anywhere in the world and those are the key elements that define a civilization.

reply to post by againuntodust


Personally, I strongly believe that there are viruses frozen in the ice caps. It's just a matter of time before they are released. God help us all if they can infect humans, are airborne, or a human comes in contact with it (them) and becomes a carrier.

For that matter, I bet there are unknown viral contagions in the Amazon just waiting for a human to breathe them into their lungs.

Originally posted by gunshooter

Originally posted by Phage
Very interesting stuff but do sticks, bows, and arrows indicate a civilization? Hunter groups yes. Civilization (cities) nope.

www.reuters.com...

I think this means that there is a civilization in the region, Hunter parties dont travel too far out from camp, or home, ya maybe a few days travel, but rarely, unless the kill is worth it. All these artifacts will lead eventually to the discovery of this regions civiliztion, so yes in all actuality this is an indication of a civilization.

Hunter-gatherers conduct their lives in seasonal rounds, and can travel hundreds of miles to exploit the landscape of its available resources according to the time of year.

Thanks to ground penetrating radar, it's been known for years there are structures under the ice in antartica.
Many are surrounding a fresh water lake that they mapped long ago.

Originally posted by RedDragon69
Thanks to ground penetrating radar, it's been known for years there are structures under the ice in antartica.
Many are surrounding a fresh water lake that they mapped long ago.

Great news! Really glad to hear it!
Ummm...can I get some citations on that, please?

Lets hope they find more artifacts as we continue with the Great Thaw, you never know we may end up with the true makers of this Artifact unveiling the mysteries further......Nice find loam S+F........

Originally posted by Vaykun

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
reply to post by loam

 

Wow! Plato was way off on the location of Atlantis. Not only the location but who knew when he said under water, he meant ice.

Whew, bit of a down grade on Atlantis' level of progress. I mean, bows shoes and sticks?

Sorry, have bait, will bite.

Anyway, this is rather fascinating in and of itself, whether it's advanced or not so advance, it does add weight to the cycles of climate, as opposed to a static climate. It could also indicate movement of the continents (or the crust in general) making parts more habitable at times then they are now.

Dont worry, like I told phage, the good stuff is just 3 feet below the shoes.

Put some heaters on the shoe area and we'll find advanced vaccines, trans warp generators and some serious atlantean mojo that will save our world from fake global warming.

But in all honesty...This world is ancient. Its very likely that there is a foundation of a civilization preserved under the thickest of arctic sheets and its much deeper then the remnant hunter gatherers that survive the destruction of a great nation.

I'm looking forward to the release of advanced imaging from satellites that could reveal structures hidden deep under the seas, lost within the jungles and burried within the arctic ice fields.

Is it not possible that through pole shifts, earthquakes and plate movements or even the unpopular expanding earth theory that the Arctics could have been the true origin of humanity?

Just some thoughts...


-G