I have come to embrace Socialism!

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
To lend money at interest (a fine capitalist idea) was actually banned under christianity I thought. what happen to that? a reinterpretation of the bible was needed to make it possible i imagine.

It's also banned under Islamic rules... but not in the torah...

Magnum

reply to post by Magnum007


Ukraine is still suffering from the long-term effects of socialism. Unfortunately people are not educated on how money works so they think that its Capitalism that is damaging. Thats the sad tail of large parts of the Ukraine, most of which still embraces Socialism.

Originally posted by endtimer
reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet

 

You say you are a person just like everyone else? In what sense? Do you really
think that everyone else embraces this sick stuff? Socialism has never worked
in any country on this planet in any time of history. Don't compare yourself to
everyone else.

And to compare Jesus to Socialism is really, really sick.

I think Canada needs believers like yourself. Get packing !!

It's better than aligning Jesus with right wing radical christians who don't want to do anything for the poor and needy. If Jesus came to run our country, socialism would work.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
To lend money at interest (a fine capitalist idea)

Yep. A fine idea. As opposed to those greedy people who want to get something for nothing.

Originally posted by Sestias
Jesus told the rich man who wanted to be one of his disciples that first he must sell all that he had and give it to the poor and THEN follow him. The man was grieved because he was very rich and couldn't give up his possessions. He did not become a disciple.

This is just one instance which reinforces my belief that Jesus was not an uber-capitalist.

The early Christians lived in communities which resembled communes. They shared and shared alike.

Everyone has to come to their own understanding of Jesus, of course, and I doubt that He himself would have advocated any particular political affiliation or party. His teachings were meant to be universal in their application.

I, myself, see Jesus' teaching as more in line with "liberal," if not socialist, philosophies but to each his or her own conscience and relationship to the divine.

You are omitting one massive and glaring component of what you just said.

Socialistic and Communistic communities DO and CAN work as long as EVERY participant is participating by choice. They have to want to be there, and they have to be able to opt out and leave when they want.

It's clear Jesus was an advocate of such. He didn't try to force that disciple out of his wealth - and that's what socialism is/does in all of history.

Everything Jesus taught was first qualified by one very important thing - individual choice. You can't compare his teachings to any political doctrine without putting it through that filter first.

reply to post by Skyfloating


This has nothing to do with socialism, it has everything to do with the capitalist system. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer... Gee, what non socialist country has this problem RIGHT NOW???

The US!

Come on! Don't give me the socialist excuse for all problems in the world...

Magnum

Socialism, Liberalism, Progressives, any name you want to call it is Anti-Freedom. How can you be free to Pursue Happiness based on the dictates of your own conscience when the Government tells you what to do?

This is why people flee Cuba and risk their lives. It's not because Socialism is great it's because people have a desire to be free.

Socialism is horrible because men are flawed. Socialism will never work because you will always have to trust other men and women to redistribute other people's wealth. These men and women are greedy and they will become rich and redistribute wealth not according to any social good but according to what's best for them and their friends.

Capitalism is the much better because it recognizes the flaw in men. What the Founding Fathers realized is that men are flawed. So if you give men too much power in Government they will try to control the people. So they designed a Government that was restrained and limited and which gave more power to the individual to live by the dictates of his or her conscious and not by the dictates of Government.

This is why Obama said the Constitution was fundamentally flawed because it restrains government and it doesn't talk about the redistribution of wealth.

Socialist, liberal or whatever name their using don't want their ideology restrained. They think their ideology is best for everybody.

This is why the Founders restrained Government so no man or Government can control peoples lives.

If Jesus was President then maybe Socialism would work. As long as flawed men and women are running Government there will never be a socialist utopia only murder and mayhem because Socialist are trying to impose their ideology onto others who want to be free.

I see nothing wrong with Socialism if you want to start a commune or local social club where people give up their money to the common pot. That's fine for local groups but it's horrible for Government anf for people who want to be free.

If a person makes a 100 million dollars because he created a product or service that others want, he doesn't have any obligation to give more and more money to crooked politicians who want to waste and spend his wealth trying to impose their ideology.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
To learn more about Socialism I also recommend you Wikipedia

Stalin
Lenin
Mao
Pol Pot
Castro
Mugabe
Chavez

the socialist "heroes" of the last 100 years.

But, we are talking about Christ. None of the above people. Christ would run a socialist society perfectly.

Originally posted by logicalthinking
So Jesus was about stealing from one group of society to give to another? Thou shalt not steal...Im in favor of helping those in need, this is where charity comes in, but for me to go out and make a living and have to give to some scumbag that refuses to get off his ass and get a job my hard earned cash, HELL NO! It will never work in America, for the simple fact that ppl are realizing whats going on and getting pissed, Socialists can bring their misunderstanding of the bible and we will bring our guns, Not In My Country!

And even Christ said if you don't work, you don't eat. The truly downtrodden do need help and assistance. Chirst himself could run socialism perfectly.

reply to post by Skyfloating


What do you mean people want something for nothing? People pay taxes for services, you know like schools and hospitals and prisons the police the armed forces etc etc and in return for paying these taxes, these services are provided.

Why do you make the assumption every time that socialists are work shy and living off the state. We pay for the state in return we get services that cant be left to the free market.

The financial crisis has highlighted much that is wrong with capitalism where the loses are picked up by the public yet the profits remain in the hands of the private, in turn leaving the public to remain paying tax while their services are reduced, works out very well for the Capitalist and the rich not so well for the rest of the world.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


This is where you are wrong... If you had a 100 million $ idea, you would develop it and be permitted to sell as you like. There were rich people in Ukraine during the USSR.

There is a misconception that you couldn't do what you wanted in the USSR. That is western propaganda. Everyone could choose their trade, employment, and education as they wanted. The government did not choose your job for you, they did not tell you where to live, shop, which doctor to see... That is all BS... People had more choices than modern day US... Today in the US you don't have full freedom for one reason:

You probably can't afford to get what you want! Need surgery? Nope too expensive. Need a Masters in business? Nope too expensive...

In the USSR, you choose, you get...

My father in law's music band even played the beatles and led zepplin! And you probably thought that music was banned there!!!

Magnum

Originally posted by Magnum007
reply to post by Matrix Rising

 

This is where you are wrong... If you had a 100 million $ idea, you would develop it and be permitted to sell as you like. There were rich people in Ukraine during the USSR.

There is a misconception that you couldn't do what you wanted in the USSR. That is western propaganda. Everyone could choose their trade, employment, and education as they wanted. The government did not choose your job for you, they did not tell you where to live, shop, which doctor to see... That is all BS... People had more choices than modern day US... Today in the US you don't have full freedom for one reason:

You probably can't afford to get what you want! Need surgery? Nope too expensive. Need a Masters in business? Nope too expensive...

In the USSR, you choose, you get...

My father in law's music band even played the beatles and led zepplin! And you probably thought that music was banned there!!!

Magnum

My wife grew up in the USSR. Yes you could choose what you wanted to do when you grew up there, but everything else you are saying is false.

And you are omitting some pretty serious other topics like when one neighbor doesn't like another they can make up a story about how they are practicing religion and the Soviet party would have them hauled off to siberia never to be seen again.

But I'm sure that had nothing to do with socialism, right? Those were just some minor bumps in the perfect soviet system.....

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened
reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet

 

A much better case can be made that Jesus was an anarchist.

Jesus taught to in obedience to those in authority over you. The only time he got really angry was when "his father's house" was made into a "den of thieves." Yes, he was a rebel to some extent, but you can't make a "better " case that he was an anarchist.

Originally posted by camaro68ss
Jesus was not a socialist! He was a Christian with Christian values in giving and helping the poor. Socialism is the government taking your money and spending, giving to who they see fit.

Jesus if alive and walking today on earth would not need the government to take his money to give to other. Jesus today would give directly to the poor and cut out government all together. You don’t need the government to help other people and by god I don’t want the government taking my hard earned money and giving it to other. I should have the right to decide whether or not I want to give my money to the poor or needy without giving it to the government first.

Jesus was not a socialist, he did not force you to give him money so he can give your money to others!

No, he was not a "christian". You are calling him that. He was the first socialist. Again, Christ is the only one who could run a socialist society the way it should be run.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


For my service (giving a loan), I get something (interest) rather than nothing. You are right that thats a capitalist idea and that socialists would demand that service for free like they demand everything for free.

Originally posted by aero56

But, we are talking about Christ. None of the above people. Christ would run a socialist society perfectly.

A society based on hatred (of achievers) cant run perfectly. A society based on love (of everyone) can run perfectly. Christ, Buddha, Ghandi, etc...they all taught Love. Socialists teach hatred. Thats why their countries turn into mass-murdering regimers eventually.

Originally posted by aero56
It's better than aligning Jesus with right wing radical christians who don't want to do anything for the poor and needy.

this is yet another myth. red states donate double and sometimes triple what blue states do. broken down into dems vs. repubs the divide is even wider.

google "charitable giving democrats versus republicans" and see for yourself. this page is dense with info and links to other studies on the subject:
blog.fortiusone.com...

being socialist doesn't mean you're more charitable, it means you trust government more than yourself to do the right thing.

reply to post by Sestias


that was to show that material posessions weren't all he wanted and all that mattered to him and that wanting to be close to jesus was what he truley wanted not because Jesus was a socialist

reply to post by Skyfloating


They wouldn't demand a service that would be unnecessary! Why would anyone need a loan when everything would already be taken care of... Why would you need to remortgage your home for a doctor's visit + treatment when you get all that for free in the first place?

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
The financial crisis has highlighted much that is wrong with capitalism

The financial crisis has highlighted what happens when even the Republicans stray away from Capitalism in favour of raising taxes, etc.