My personal take on Freemasonry, why i didn't join.

reply to post by BluePillOrRedPill


I just was to say this to you my friend

I wont argue more on this thread with Masons because for me it is a touchy subject as i have various family in the craft.

I want to add a personal experience;

My father has been a member all of my life. My family are Catholics.

When my niece got baptized, i was standing next to my father who was about to take a photo of the ceremony.

The priest said "Do you renounce Satan"

My father looked at me and said "i dont"

I hope you find your answers.

When did i say i was a Mason lol

see thats the kind of tactics you been tought....to lie

Where do you get your info? Seriously, I really would like to know, cause If you know more secrets about masonry than I do, then I have been totally ripped out of a few hundreds dollars, not to mention the yearly dues for each house for the past 9 years. If all this stuff were try that these conspiracy theorist come up with, why dont they put me in on some of these secrets, Maybe I can use my clout as a mason to attain a few million dollars, I dont want much, just a yahct or two. Please teach me the tru secrets of masonry...

reply to post by getreadyalready


Thanks for the reply, As most of us on ATS read your threads and posts, we know you are of a man of some intelligence. I just had something telling me not to join, you did not.
How could i join something that the explanation of the ceremony, the true meaning, is revealed afterward. You have the admit, the ceremony is strange and could be explained to you in anyway they want. If I joined not knowing, would that make me a he who knows not and knows not that he knows not. Or would it make me a he who knows not and knows that he knows not because I know it wouldn't make me a he who knows and knows that he knows.

Gentle Reminder



Please discuss the topic and not each other and I said-you said.

Thanks!

reply to post by Dr Cosma


As a Mason, I have never asked to endorse or denounce anything, or any God, demi-God, or idol. We demand that you are not an Atheist, and that you believe in "one, ever-living God." We do not specify what the name of your God is. I suppose, on some level a person could be a Satanist and also be a Mason, but I do not think it would be very popular. In my experience the Masons are very open about their mostly Christian religions, and I think someone that was not some type of Christian, Jew, or Muslim would be very, very uncomfortable. Like I said, that is just my experience and opinion, it is not impossible that a Satanist could also be a Mason.

Maybe your grandfather just didn't like Priests, or churches, or Baptisms. Maybe he was trying to be funny, or maybe he was truly some type of satanists. There are many levels of that religion, and most of them are not evil in nature. In most cases they are more like Wiccans and they believe in the power of man and the importance of the Earth and nature. (I am not a Satanist, but I do read a lot.)

In all cases, whatever the tendencies of your Grandfather, please do not project them onto me and all Masons. Evaluate us for what we are. We are individuals with varied backgrounds, experiences, and beliefs, and we come together as a fraternity to learn and improve ourselves through the history and morality of Masonry, and by the camaraderie of other good men. That is the short and long of it.

reply to post by BluePillOrRedPill

How could i join something that the explanation of the ceremony, the true meaning, is revealed afterward. You have the admit, the ceremony is strange and could be explained to you in anyway they want. If I joined not knowing,

It is a little scary going into an unknown situation. You have to trust the men that have you in charge. For me it was my father-in-law and some other good friends, and even then I was a little nervous. For me personally, I am confident in my own physicality, and I figured if it got "too" weird, I would fight my way out of there, LOL!

I agree that if you felt uncomfortable, you were perfectly correct in not proceeding. I hope you give it another chance, meet some more Masons, and hopefully feel comfortable enough to give it a shot later on down the road. I guarantee you that if you want to stop at any point, you will be allowed to do so, and they will not be mad at you. A little uncomfortable and awkward, but not hurt and not aggressive in any way. I have seen it happen. Only once out of hundreds of applicants, but it does happen, and it is just awkward, nothing more.

You are given several assurances along the way, and you are asked several times if you are still "willing" to proceed.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by BluePillOrRedPill

 

I would fight my way out of there, LOL!

That would be me, definetly. Maybe if my sponsor stayed or i had an elder to look up too like you did, i would have joined. But like i said, i'm glad it worked out the way it did.

The supreme architect is not God, well not the divine and eternal spirit anyway. God is not interested in ceremony, symbology, keeping secrets or being chooosy about who's in his club. The supreme architect is not the deliverer of Jesus, he may well be the child murderer of the OT though.

What were you expecting the devil to do? Walk up to you in a black robe and say 'join the dark side Luke'?

reply to post by Robert Reynolds


I am going to require a little more explanation on how you disagree.

What we call the "Supreme Architect" is exactly the divine spirit. A "God" that goes by any number of names, but is ultimately responsible for the creation of the Heavens and Earth and everything that goes along with them. We use the term for the specific purpose of not ruling out whatever you want to call your divine spirit, so long as you believe there is a divine spirit.

What are you saying is different than that? Are you trying to say that we have a specific, dark God that we call by that name? Or are you trying to say that any God is just a God, and that there is an even higher force? I do not understand your post.

Originally posted by BluePillOrRedPill
Our "tour guide" mason then said "if you join this week and pay your dues, you could get your first three degrees all at the same time, at the same ceremony, before summertime. Because the higher ups don't give out degrees in the summertime." But, why not in the summertime? Is my 350 dollar dues and degree fee going to be used for the higher ups to go on summer vacation? It was like $150-200 to join, and $50 dollars each degree. It struck me as a little weird but i have enough money.

Why not in the summertime? A lot of the older lodge buildings don’t have air conditioning, for one… And as my brother also mentioned, a lot of people travel with their families in the summer, and family comes before Masonry in our duties, so yeah, a lot of times it could be hard to pull together a degree team. It has become tradition in many areas to have the lodge “dark” in July & August…no meetings again until September.

The only lodge members who might receive a salary are usually the Secretary and sometimes the Tiler, I believe. The Secretary’s duties are almost like a part-time job, and take a fair amount of work keeping up with paperwork to be sent to the Grand Lodge and such. I think the Secretary of my lodge gets $200 a month. The notion of paying the Tiler goes back, I believe, to the occasions when the Tiler of a lodge might not be a member of that lodge, but could be from another lodge, or even not a Mason at all. If I understand correctly, in the old days when some lodges met above taverns, the tavernkeeper was paid a small amount to make sure the meeting was not interrupted. That tradition still goes on in some areas to this day.

Here is were i felt something telling me not to join the masons, even though i was really interested. I already knew about the induction ceremony. I knew that you went through something really weird in order to become a mason, i just didn't know what it meant in performing the initiation. I didn't understand what it meant for you to say those things, and what it meant for them to say those things and perform those acts. That always stuck in my head. So the "tour guide" says, "after you pay the dues and the money for the first 3 degrees, you'll have your cermony."(or whatever). "It might seem a little weird at first. Everyone is dressed kind of weird, and you'll have to go through this old tradition kind of ceremony."

Here is where i believe a higher power helped me make the right decision. Flame me if you like, i believe it to be true.
So i say, "yeah, i've heard you have to say and do some weird stuff, what does it all mean? (notice the direct question..)
He says, "Don't worry about it, we will help you through what your suppose to say and do, so it's not hard or confusing." (Ohh, notice the non-direct answer!)

I wouldn't necessarily consider that evasion. A lot of candidates worry about “doing it right” before going through the degrees. He might have misunderstood your question, because as he says, there’s a guide at every step of the way to tell you what to do next. The whole point of the initiation is that you go in blind and clueless. It is by going through the experience that you are supposed to then be able to reflect on the teachings.

Even if he weren’t bound by oath not to discuss specific ritualistic aspects of the ceremony, there is nothing stopping him (or any of us) from discussing our interpretations of what they mean to us. The fact is, the question you asked can’t be answered in a few short sentences at an open house. There are literally thousands of books that have been written by Masons about their interpretations of the ritual, the words, the symbols. It’s like discussing philosophy—there’s no one right interpretation.

I wonder how many people they have tricked into not thinking about the ceremony until afterward?

Ideally, all of them. But it's not a trick. It’s a method of teaching. If you’re in a book club you actually have to read the book before you can have a meaningful discussion about it. It would be empty to try to explain everything before you even went through it, because it wouldn’t mean anything to you. But realistically, all of the ritual has been published for hundreds of years. If you’re really curious, go down to the local book shop and buy a copy of Duncan’s Ritual, or google it—it’s freely available online at a number of sources.

]What if the majority of people were masons? The mason's don't go against each other, so if they got really big, who would stop them? If they keep gaining members, its going to be a whole world society?

Wouldn’t that be amazing? A whole world that has sworn not to kill each other; sworn not to cheat or wrong each other; sworn to treat each other as equals, regardless of their race or religion or social standing.

Here is a serious answer to your question. And a direct one, as well.

Nothing in any ceremony in Freemasonry will improperly affect any duty you owe to God, your country or your family. On this, I can without any hesitation give you my word.

Think of the men who have gone through the very same ceremony, said the very same words, and then went on to participate fully in the life of the Fraternity. Generations of men, some quite accomplished and well-known, most simply good men who did their best, have been a part of the Fraternity. If it involved anything in the least nefarious itt is very unlikely that all these men would have tolerated it.

You are most certainly required to make a leap of trust to enter the Fraternity. But you can and should know that your personal integrity will be strengthened rather than diminished through association with Masonry.

reply to post by BluePillOrRedPill


I respect your decision not to join based on the reasons you have stated. Masonry is not for everyone. And there are several things that need to be in place before you join, one of them is that is be of your own free will. IN the beginning of the first degree you are taught a lesson that will help you throughout your masonic career and your life. to trust your brother mason. The part about you not knowing what was going to happen in the ceremony is very intentional. Sure you could read about it on the internet as you apparently have, but if you go through it blind so to speak, you are taught the lesson the way it was meant to be taught.

I am personally very glad you decided not to join. Not that I think bad of you or even that you wouldn't make a good mason. But the one day for all degree thing is weak. I bet better than 70% of the people who go that way never set foot in a lodge again. Anything worth having is worth working for. It should take the amount of work most mason go through to learn the catechism and be able to repeat it in front of the lodge. But that is my opinion an not that of all masons.

Should you ever decide you are interested in some real answers to real questions about masonry, please don't hesitate to ask me or any other mason on this board. Most of us would be happy to answer anything we can and we will tell you why we cannot answer the things we are obligated to keep secret. It's purely an honor thing and all the things we swore not to tell are easy to find using the google.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Dr Cosma

 

I never said, that you said, you were a Mason. I only said that you are NOT a Mason, so why would anyone take your word for what goes on in the ceremony, or what the true meaning of it is. You are exactly wrong in what you declare to be the meaning of the ceremony. Not your fault I suppose, you are just summarizing a bunch of rhetoric from non-Masons. The ceremony does not have you letting go of your beliefs as you stated.

Hello get ready all ready,thanks for all your help before buddy.Great work on the oil spill on the conspiracy chicks program. Im not a mason but i am interested about joining and my uncle is helping me with my petition.I once swallowed a lot of the anti masonic propaganda. I AM ASHAMED I DID NOW!! , i was shown something one day and through what i was shown. I understood now what a load of #e the propaganda was.
A lot of people join masonry through their family ,do you honestly think these people would want bad for their loved ones? no is the answer that. They have secerts,yes. but knowledge without experience is dangerous.
When you learned these secerts you would understand that they are better to be kept secert because if they werent?. The world would be chaos . Its nothing to do with anything alex jones and the boys would let on.
just my toughts and i do not believe getready already would mislead you either in the slightest .
I wish you all the best what ever you choose.

reply to post by Robert Reynolds


God is not interested in ceremony, symbology, keeping secrets or being chooosy about who's in his club.


Wow, you've never even HEARD of organized religion?

Hi all.

I posted on a similar thread to this a few months ago, and while I have my own reservations about certain individuals who are/have been associated with Freemasonry, I can say in all honesty that the members who answered my posts were helpful, polite, and very patient.
They also helped to clear up many of my previous misconceptions about certain aspects of their craft.

As with any powerful organisation, there will no doubt be certain individuals who wish to use the influence gained from membership for personal gain and power etc, but I feel quite strongly that not every member is of this persuasion, and the majority are good honest people with a genuine desire to help others less fortunate than themselves.

Just my two pen'rth.

What exactly do the free masons do now and days? Forgive me if this is already said or asked as I didn't read every post. Thanks.

reply to post by BluePillOrRedPill


Very interesting what you say cause it brings a story to mind that I recall.My stepdad has been riding in biker clubs most of his life.He spoke to me once about some of the 1% clubs such as hells angels outlaws bandidos etc,just refering some u may be familliar with.He said that the masons have a sanctioned group that ride and there not one of the bigger 1% clubs that are feared,however because of there reputation they are feared more because of what they represent by all of the other 1% clubs that are territorial and arent supposed to fear anyone.Not trying to hate on you or anything just helping to bring more evidence to light.I dont even know if the # is true,you know how old men are about there old war stories but I thought it was interesting and seemed true enough to be put up for an argument.

When I asked to join Freemasory, I was not allowed into the lodge room, and the Masons who interviewed me were very quiet on matters of ritual, and what happens in the lodge.

However, they offered to give my wife a guided tour of the lodge room, explaining exactly why the lodge is laid out the way it is, what happens during the meetings and ritual (without giving away the signs or specific details), all the symbolism within the lodge room (meaning of the ashlars, pillars etc), on condition that she did not tell me anything about it before my initiation.

This is pretty standard in my local lodges, and that the only reason it was kept secret from me was so as not to detract from the experience. Family of candidates who are interested are always given the tour before the candidate's initiation in my lodge if they so wish. The masons in my lodge will gladly expose all of the happenings of the lodge to ladies, or to men who they know will probably never join, but are very secretive when it comes to potential candidates.

I just though I'd share this story with you, because I feel it says a lot about the Masons' reasons and views on secrecy.

hmm well I didn't join Lions because at that time I was already doing a lot of community work and felt that if I joined they would exploit my expertise.

In any organisation you have to consider the pros and cons of joining...

Even with Scientology.. I would rather keep my money.. so I said no thx

Originally posted by Thurisaz
and felt that if I joined they would exploit my expertise.

What a privilege...!

I could not think of a better reason to join!