Government Agents Seize Oath Keeper's New Born From Hospital(Baby Returned), page 3
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reply posted on 7-10-2010 @ 10:54 PM by GoldenFleece
Originally posted by Jessicamsa
This sounds like something that would happen in Nazi Germany.

Ever read Jim Marrs'
The Rise of The Fourth Reich? One of my favorite books.

You'll never guess where the word 'Homeland' comes from, what American event parallels the false-flag Nazi Reichstag Fire or what American "patriot" legislation parallels the Nazi Enabling Act.

The only question left will be when our grandchildren ask, "were you one of the good Americans?"

edit on 10/8/2010 by GoldenFleece because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 7-10-2010 @ 11:11 PM by Solasis
reply to post by TrueAmerican



So the taking is genuine, and documented with legal... er, documents. However, there are mitigating circumstances: allegations of child abuse and so forth. However however, his involvement being listed as a reason at all certainly calls whoever was in charge of the case into high suspicion.


reply posted on 7-10-2010 @ 11:21 PM by ZindoDoone
reply to post by TrueAmerican


I would not put anything that is being reported as being the absolute truth!
Child abuse by most DCS means the parents ARE Gun Owners. That in and of itself is the reasoning for these nanny state control freaks.
The Oath Keepers and every single organization like them are on the subversive lists of all government agencies that are deemed a protectorate of the present government. They have been labeled and set as subversive just because they are trying to keep the Constitution and those that are supposed to protect it on the straight and narrow!

I am willing to bet that every mention of abuse will be explained as the probability of the child being injured do to the parental handling of firearms. Or merely having them in the home! Don;t forget, the AMA tried to get their member Dr's to ask each and every one of their patients about gun ownership for the purpose of having a back door owners list for local governments to use in case of any Federal confiscation order!

Zindo


reply posted on 7-10-2010 @ 11:23 PM by Fractured.Facade
reply to post by TrueAmerican



They had better be able to substantiate the allegations of child neglect and abuse, because they had to have that in order to take the child. In some states the mere allegation of either/or can give just cause to remove minors from any home pending an investigation. So anyone for any reason could have reported abuse (real or not) to initiate the removal of this baby from its parents. Sometimes these investigations can drag on for many months....

There are a lot of unanswered questions here, and it all is really starting to smell.

The fact that they would even mention the ties to oath keepers and a purchase of weapons is very unusual, I'd really like to see that document.

It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that some of the allegations will be proven false, but the state will keep custody because of the weapons, and ties to a militia.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

In the end, the odds are always on the side of the government, and they will usually make a case, even if they need to fabricate one, including evidence, especially when it gets this much public attention. And of course expect their very best public relations people to soon spin this in the media and to completely demonize these parents and the oath keepers at any and every opportunity to do so.

edit on 7-10-2010 by Fractured.Facade because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 7-10-2010 @ 11:26 PM by ericsnow
www.ronpaulforums.com...

Were any of the other reasons listed anything serious like illegal drug use or past child abuse?

Yes there are some serious allegations, however these are allegations... it does not mean they are true. But even a more fundemental point is that the mere association with OK or any other organization is not valid grounds for taking someones child away. If we allow that to happen people will be afraid to speak. That's called chilling their speech in first amendment law lingo.


reply posted on 7-10-2010 @ 11:33 PM by GoldenFleece
Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
reply to
post by TrueAmerican


They had better be able to substantiate the allegations of child neglect and abuse, because they had to have that in order to take the child.

Uhh, this was a newborn. Was the mother neglectful or abusive in the way she delivered the child?


reply posted on 7-10-2010 @ 11:34 PM by infolurker
reply to post by GoldenFleece



Good question... or do they have other children?

We need details! When do we get to see the list of allegations? I hope they post the whole document.


reply posted on 7-10-2010 @ 11:40 PM by ZindoDoone
reply to post by nickoli



The trouble is that you very rarely EVER get to know who or how a complaint came from. with Child Services in ANY state. Back in the late 60's most states made reports of abuse by whistle blowers confidential and in some cases completely anonymous!
Zindo


reply posted on 7-10-2010 @ 11:42 PM by Jessicamsa
Originally posted by GoldenFleece
Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
reply to
post by TrueAmerican


They had better be able to substantiate the allegations of child neglect and abuse, because they had to have that in order to take the child.

Uhh, this was a newborn. Was the mother neglectful or abusive in the way she delivered the child?


It is kind of hard for parents to be child abusers when the child is just born.

How can you be neglectful/abusive in delivering the child when you're in a hospital and the delivery is mostly controlled by hospital staff??

The abuse charges are just to give more ammo to take the child. They wanted the child.

The government probably even has a spy or spies in oath keepers in order to gather info and break up the group, as they have done with other groups. Remember hutaree (sp?)?



reply posted on 7-10-2010 @ 11:53 PM by nickoli
reply to post by ZindoDoone



Well that may be the case but it does pose some serious questions dont you think? I do not want to live in an America that views the oathkeepers as a threat or subversive group. I really dont because thats not America,the country that views the oathkeepers as a threat is not the country our founders formed and is not the country our constitution describes its something else,something other than a constitutional republic,fascism comes to mind.

I do think this is a line that should be persued by the oathkeepers,they may even be able to sue on defamation charges stand alone from the other case and lets expose their avenue of investigation here,i.e. just how did they come by and verify this information? Preferably asked under oath,I'd like to know,especially their verification process.


reply posted on 8-10-2010 @ 12:27 AM by GoldenFleece
reply to post by TrueAmerican


Better be careful, TA. Sounds like your children can be seized just for visiting the Oath Keepers website.

And actually quoting it makes you a terrorist.


reply posted on 8-10-2010 @ 12:32 AM by TrueAmerican
reply to post by GoldenFleece



Well they can call me whatever they want. Doesn't mean it's true. And they can call John Irish whatever they want. But doesn't mean that's true either.


reply posted on 8-10-2010 @ 12:56 AM by SourGrapes
Originally posted by GoldenFleece
Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
reply to
post by TrueAmerican


They had better be able to substantiate the allegations of child neglect and abuse, because they had to have that in order to take the child.

Uhh, this was a newborn. Was the mother neglectful or abusive in the way she delivered the child?


If anything, I'd argue that it's the agency that is abusing this child. They've robbed the child of her 'bonding', which is extremely important in the first few hours/days of birth. What about mother's milk? Their is absolutely nothing, on the market - anywhere, that is equal to the nutrients of mother's milk - in the first several hours. The 'pre'milk is specially designed, specifically for that child.

I really hope there is more to this story, as I just cannot fathom an agency of child advocacy to take such serious and life-altering actions in such haste. Surely the Child Welfare Agency would certainly understand the ramifications of the child/mother separation. Heck, they don't even work this quickly to remove the newborn babies from the arms of inmate mothers. They're usually given appropriate bonding and feeding time.
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