An opinion from a skeptic regarding recent posts (no trolling, no arguing intended )

Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by artistpoet

 

I didn't mention the Gray Area did I?
Read the Alien/UFO forum.
Then read the HOAX forum. Really, look at the HOAX forum!
How much deliberate misinformation has been posted?
Why is that OK?

Yes I have - I think a lot of information is posted out of confusion as well as deliberate
It is the way of the world - we all have choice in what we believe
I respect your sceptical approach it makes perfect sense - amyone who claims to know all is delusional but there again some truths can not be proven such as what does the 90 per cent unknown Universe consist of.
Sure we can speculate and theorise - Sometimes we have to admit to ourselves we know 10 per cent of all things our senses and technology perceive

Originally posted by m0r1arty
reply to post by artistpoet

 

How long does it take for a 'silly' thread to get moved to the 'Grey area'?

How long does it take for a 'serious' critical thinking thread on the entire subject to get moved to the 'Grey area' or 'Skunk works'?

There is a disparity between those who 'believe' wholeheartedly and those who scrutinise with regards to efficiency to reallocating to a correct subsection of these forums.

This isn't a fight about who's right - this is a fight about who's allowed to stay in a subsection with their claims for the longest, and potentially most correct, due to the workings of the administration of these forums.

Check my signature links and tell me I'm wrong.

-m0r

I get where you are coming from and you are correct many things should be in the Gray area
But I would not tell this site owner or the Mods howto run this site - If people are unhappy with ATS they can speak to Mods or even create their own site

And then there is the part of you that has to accept that you are typing on a computer utilising a global network to do so and as such must admit that progression from either basic hunter-gatherer or bible believing bigot stands true.

We do achieve all fine and dandy by ourselves - yay us!

Can't we just have, for the best part, a good run at it without wild flights on unsubstantiated fancy kick in to re-oppress us?

It's just a question.

-m0r

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by artistpoet

 

Posting a view on a subject is vastly different than posting an outrageous claim that is unbelievable, and then claiming everyone that doesn't believe you is just not enlightened or that they suffer from any number of other afflictions such as addiction to food, and that is the reason they can't "see" the truth.

The Gray area is for things like UFO sightings that may or may not be true, or a place to vet out photographs and see if they are credible, or a place to discuss paranormal experiences. It is not a place to air your schizophrenic tendencies and seek out free healthcare! There has to be a limit, and I applaud the Mods for being very patient in letting those limits establish themselves. I would use my axe for some of these silly azz threads much more quickly if I had the authority!

I am new here so for the sake of not wishing to offend long term members all I can say is I respect your views though I may not agree with all of them - I for one am happy with the way this site is run but there again I am new here

reply to post by OldDragger


I'm sorry, but I find the pompous and arrogant viewpoint of some "debunkers" amusing. It's not like we are writing an article for Nature or Science with all the rigor that entails. I don't see what's wrong with sharing ideas, no matter how far fetched they may seem to the "debunkers". The Gray Area seems like a good place for this kind of idea sharing.

I'm old enough to make up my own mind without people being abused and called names for expressing an idea. Personally I feel sorry for their closed mindedness and instead of ignoring outrageous claims, they have to go out of their way to humiliate, insult and generally be obnoxious. I think they get off on it.

Like someone said, this is ATS, not Scientific American. Some here point out factually what is wrong with an argument, which is great, but others just start bashing like World of Warcraft smack talkers. It's sad really because fewer people will be inclined to post, and eventually all that will be left is the debunkers. Hmm, maybe that is the agenda, no UFOs ever anywhere anytime?

Originally posted by Nicolas Flamel
reply to post by OldDragger

 

I'm sorry, but I find the pompous and arrogant viewpoint of some "debunkers" amusing. It's not like we are writing an article for Nature or Science with all the rigor that entails. I don't see what's wrong with sharing ideas, no matter how far fetched they may seem to the "debunkers". The Gray Area seems like a good place for this kind of idea sharing.

I'm old enough to make up my own mind without people being abused and called names for expressing an idea. Personally I feel sorry for their closed mindedness and instead of ignoring outrageous claims, they have to go out of their way to humiliate, insult and generally be obnoxious. I think they get off on it.

Like someone said, this is ATS, not Scientific American. Some here point out factually what is wrong with an argument, which is great, but others just start bashing like World of Warcraft smack talkers. It's sad really because fewer people will be inclined to post, and eventually all that will be left is the debunkers. Hmm, maybe that is the agenda, no UFOs ever anywhere anytime?

Thank you for your post I was on the point of closing my account but for your post. I guess I will stay around a bit longer

Belief and Scepticism. Too much of either is a bad thing.

reply to post by OldDragger


There is much evidence,and when i say Evidence,i mean a substantial amount of proof that there very likely MAY have been ancient astronauts that started human civilization,or helped it along. We as citizens have no proof of this,because our leaders have up to this point,decided not to go public with this information. This would however be a gradual process to get us use to the idea of intelligent life outside of our solar system. Right now it seems we are to too interested in enslaving the human race with false ideologies,or yes "DOGMA". I think ATS has strict enough standards,thank you,and ATS probably has higher standards than most. There are hordes of intelligent people here as well,sometimes just misunderstood. I think people get a little excited when they hear some new stuff on UFO's,i don't blame them,i do too.

reply to post by Nicolas Flamel
Friend, I have to agree; part of the problem lies in our skeptics being pseudo-skeptics instead of the genuine article; a true skeptic remains on the fence and does not immediately judge, sentence, and crucify the poster as far too many are wont to do.Also they cannot seem to see how pompous, biased, or smugly arrogant their own posts are, much less the insults and name calling...

It also amuses me as to how so many can't read the written word in an OP and ask over and over for information already provided; also am very curious as to how SO, Springer, or Mister Grey will respond to some of the comments aimed at them along with the Mods...


seeker

I am probably one of those folks being referenced by the OP. It is not that I do not argue or open to other insights in regards to my diatribe it is more that I rarely get any and of those that I do I typically find myself defending my thoughts otherwise.

So, as with all great places to reside, if you don't like the weather just wait a few minutes. For instance 10-10-10; it will soon pass. Then eventually we will get to 2011 and then 2012 if we are lucky.

Here is a tribute to the OP, please enjoy because it is such a real possibility by far!

reply to post by OldDragger


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

It is very easy to become frustrated here. Generally many people don't think before they post. Generally many people will not read a thread in its entirety before posting. Generally many people will not even rear a single post completely before responding. Generally people will read opinion and regurgitate it as fact. The anecdote is a living breathing creature here.

That being said, its a little arrogant to assume that every theory or statement must be presented in a manner that is convincing to you personally. Don't consider it an insult that people won't conform to your way of thinking just because you say so even with a well structured argument.

This place is far from a peer reviewed science journal, and simply could never be run as such. The is a fringe site, with fringe topics, attracting fringe posters. What exactly are you expecting the fringe to provide, except what it does.

In summary, don't walk into hay barn and expect to find hamburgers. Expect to find hay and your day will be far less frustrating.

I have to keep reminding myself of that one.

reply to post by OldDragger


OldDragger.....

I agree strongly with the sentiment of your thread.

I have become appalled at the level of intentional lying, hoaxing & misrepresentation that is being posted in threads relating to the topic of "UFOs & Aliens".

I have also become appalled at the level of abuse that has been directed at members who have endeavoured to follow the ATS Credo by "Denying Ignorance" by way of polite, constructive debate.

This problem is exacerbated by significant examples of such abuse being allowed to remain "in-thread", because the genuinely excellent ATS Mod Team is finding themselves being "flooded" by this highly problematic content.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not.

Old Dragger, I have to say that to a point I agree with you.
Some of the threads start with little to no evidence, poor or no science, and/or already disproven theories and hoaxes.
Then the OP, in some of these threads, berates those that at first are asking logical questions or making valid points. Many times a few jump in and full out profanity and ad hominem attacks on the "blind" that don't agree with the OP.
And sometimes, the OP then reveals that their "theory" is actually "truth" from firsthand experience because they Are an alien, or a pharaoh, or they have personally been "told".

What happened to the good old days when the "off" either thought they were Napoleon or George Washington?

And why do these threads get allowed to go on with all the deleted (actioned) posts, attacks and profanity while others are instantly closed down just because they are about a subject that is covered from a different angle in an earlier thread?

eta: Notice that to be fair I said "some".

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
I have become appalled at the level of intentional lying, hoaxing & misrepresentation that is being posted in threads relating to the topic of "UFOs & Aliens".

One could say the same about any subject in this forum. From "Obama is a CIA operative and sacrifices kids to satan", all the way through to "I found Atlantis on Google Earth 3 streets from my house". Actually when one considers it, its very much human nature to promote halfassed ideas, fabrications and outright falsehoods to make someone feel more important than they are.

Listen to me i'm important and only I have the secret knowledge about the hidden Monkey Temple buried under Times Square etc etc etc.

As I said in my earlier post though, this isn't the New England Journal of Medicine. Its ATS. In the detritus there is gold, however its in very small amounts. Not every thread is a well thought out documented piece of evidence. Some of them are just the rantings of the blind shoemaker.

reply to post by Gaderel


Agreed this is not a scientific journal. That would make ATS, well, a scientific journal site.

But I think Old Dragger, and Maybe...maybe not were also saying that for a site devoted to denying ignorance, there is a small group of deliberate hoaxers promoting ignorance. That is a bit irksome.

Now tell me all about this "secret knowledge about the hidden Monkey Temple buried under Times Square" please so we can shine a light for all those in the darkness.

reply to post by Chamberf=6


LOL its all in my tell all book! Gaderels Secret mystery of the secret mysterious Monkey Temple that holds secrets and mystery(tm) $99.95.

I think many mistake "Deny Ignorance" with "Believe everything" it is true, and very frustrating. And yes there are deliberate hoaxers out there, and they should be denied a platform. However, ATS is 25% supposition, 25% fact, 25% ignorance an 25% hysterical ranting in its composition, and on a site such as that, the line between hoaxer and prophet are blurred somewhat depending on your point of view.

Note also I didn't mention Evidence, which is in short supply on almost every thread here. In many cases if there was firm evidence, there would be no theory, with no theory there would be no thread, and with no threads, well you can guess the rest.

reply to post by Gaderel


Put me down for 10 copies please. The giant spaceship en route holds my check.

reply to post by Greensage


don't forget about 10/13 and 10/20 !!!!!

reply to post by Gaderel


Oh did I forget to tell yall? I found Obama in Atlantis' secret monkey tunnel 3 blocks from my house!!! (which would be the beach)

reply to post by Chamberf=6


Chamberf=6.....

But I think Old Dragger, and Maybe...maybe not were also saying that for a site devoted to denying ignorance, there is a small group of deliberate hoaxers promoting ignorance.

I truly don't understand why this "small group of deliberate hoaxers promoting ignorance" is allowed to keep posting their intentionally disingenuously obfuscated, confused, exaggerated & misrepresented material.

In fact, some of the material is so obviously problematic that I harbour mild suspicions that in one instance, an external party who is extremely critical of ATS could be encouraging such activity.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not