Is... There Life After Death ?

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posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by css1981
From a buddhist point of view; I believe in life after death..

But I also believe that we can stop that 'circle'

If we reach 'nirvana' in this life we also stop the circle of reincarnation.


Yes I believe this to be so - It is also part of The Original Ancient Egyptian Philosophy re the books of Thoth




posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by trailertrash
I'll include one tidbit for consideration. The human brain does not produce consciousness. It merely allows the preexisting consciousness to interface with the body so the human form will be adequate for it's purpose.


That is exactly true.

Scientifically you can't prove consciousness even exists.

You can not prove another person has consciousness.

When people start talking about physiological psychology and Neuroscience, they are confusing correlation is causation.

We can observe the effect of consciousness on the brain but not our "mind" directly.



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 10:43 AM
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Tayesin:

It's a shame that as yet science has no way of measuring anything to do with what happens with Awareness after the body drops away.


Of course, people can believe in whatever they want, but when science has shown them the error of their belief then fair-mindedness should kick in and help them to both perceive and accept the error. Not only science, but daily experience throughout history has indeed shown what happens to awareness when it is permanently snuffed out...irreversible death occurs.

There remain aspects of the corpse that can still be measured, but the animus (vital force) of life cannot, for it is no longer generated by the internal workings of the body. All electro-chemical mechanisms have ceased, and although the body is still bathed and bombarded by external sense stimulations, there is no internal response to stimulation. All mitochondria have died, and there is no intracelluar activity...the body almost instantly enters into a state of physical decomposition and atrophy.

Of course, death is no longer thought of as a instant 'switch off', but a slow process of gradual withdrawl of vital organic functions, but this is determined by the manner of death. Just as fire requires the presence of three essential components to sustain the blaze - fuel, oxygen, and heat, and that the removal of any one of the three components will snuff out the fire, the body equally requires a combination of essential activities to sustain the vital life force. The intake of oxygen via the lungs transported in the blood pumped by the heart to the brain in order to perfuse the brain with oxygen and other essential organic requirements. Interruption in any of these three processes can quickly lead to a total cessation of awareness (higher cerebral functioning) and irreversible death of the whole organism.

That is a overly objective and dispassionate view of the physical body and its functional requirements, but the topic of the thread discusses less the physical aspects of the body, and more the seemingly immaterial aspects of the totality of our mental life, which many would perceive as the soul or spirit: ergo, let me focus on that aspect.

Do we have a soul or spirit, and does that soul or spirit continue a conscious existence after the physical body can no longer sustain it? Just to ensure that my stance is fully understood, allow me to restate it as follows. To the former part of the question I can say 'yes', but to the latter part of the question, I must say 'no'. It may seem a contradiction in thought, but it is not really.

From birth to late teens the body develops and matures toward adulthood. In parallel to the body's development, but seemingly a few years behind, our mental life undergoes a form of maturation. There is an emergence of a character and personality unique to each individual human organism. One way to perceive this would be to suggest that spirit is the canvas, and that soul is the image that gradually appears over time on the canvas; therefore we have what we can loosely term a 'soul of self' of spirit. Soul is nothing more than the expression of spirit.

Ok. So what is spirit? Spirit is that which we term consciousness, and consciousness is a resonance by-product of energy correspondences. To illustrate this I should ask you to think of two particles near to each other, but not within communicative relation to each other. They are both at rest phase, unperturbed by external radiation, vibration, etc. Along comes an external energy wave which forces the two particles towards each other, which awakens them out of rest phase and into a higher energetic state. Their extenal fields interact and out of this energetic correspondence a resonance arises which is the energetic sum of the passing energy wave and the two particle's interaction with each other. It is that resonance that manifests as consciousness in organic forms.

This mechanism of consciousness manifestation is occurring billions of times a second, each consciousness resonance rapidly peaking and fading to be replaced just as rapidly by another. The resonance lasts only as long as the interaction, but as interactions are constantly taking place, the manifestation of consciousness is perceived as homogenous and consistently present. It is an error if we think that we are spirit that is conscious, this is not the reality. It is no more real to say that we have a mind that is conscious. When we say spirit, and when we say consciousness, we are in fact pertaining to the same thing, there is no distinction. We do not have a mind that is conscious, but a consciousness perceived (by looped feed back mechanisms) as mind...a very important distinction.

So, right from birth we have the mechanism of consciousness production occurring deep in the structure of our organic body. As we grow and mature through infancy and childhood into teens and adulthood, life experience imprints itself upon us and is expressed as a response in the form of the developing character and personality...what I call the 'soul of self'. This imprintation mechanism out of which emerges the soul of self, is nothing more than life experience assimilated as memory, it is the gateway mask through which spirit expresses itself as a unique individual human being. Underpinning all this is the essential requirement of the physical body to sustain the continuation of these mechanisms. It is this that is the crux of the whole afterlife debate, how are these mechanisms sustained when the underpinning physical systems cease in their function?

How is the memory bank of all that we are, each as unique individual human beings, sustained cohesively and energetically when the physical support systems are gone? Strangely enough, there is a historical esoteric tradition that can provide for spirit's continuation of its 'soul of self', by which individuality of character and personality survive the loss of the physical support systems that nurtured it into being. I wonder...can any of you tell me what it is? If you can, I will tell you why I reject it.



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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When your brain is starved of oxygen and dies so do you... this is basic common sense. So no, there is no zooming off to some afterlife when you die, it is a hideous and ludicrous concept. But as usual people will create and believe all sorts of fanciful stories to make themselves feel better, i don't respect that but i can understand it.



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by BRITWARRIOR
I think this is a question we have all pondered on at some point in our life, i have read into NDE and some of the evidence is compelling IMO, i would like to know your takes on the whole topic/issue, your theorys or other evidence you have come across to support or debunk, please share

Are you a believer? or not? please explain...


Yes, I am a "believer," as you so aptly put it. I have been able to see the dead since I was a small child, no, not ever dead person, but some of them. Mostly around hospitals, nursing homes, places where people die a lot. I have been visited personally by three people in my life. The first was my Grandfather. He died in 1962, when I was 7 years old. When he came, he was standing beside my bed and took my hand, pulling me up. He was younger than I remembered, and no longer had the miner's cough, or the bad back I remembered. He led me to his car. When he was alive, Grandpa had a beautiful 1951 Ford Club Sedan, with spotlights and fender skirts, it was bright red. In life he had loved that car, I can remember him polishing it to a bright shine. The car was sold after he died and wrecked beyond repair a few days later. So, we get into his car, there it was again. He drove for what seemed like a long time, it took me awhile to be able to speak to him. He took me to what was a strip mine, and told me that this is wrong, and man should not dig for the coal, there were other ways to make energy. Grandpa was a coal miner, and was passionate when he spoke. Then he took me to some other places I am not going to talk about, but they are things that are going on behind our backs, and any good researchers knows already. when we returned, we sat in the car and talked for awhile. When asked about Grandma, he said she was with him, and so was everyone of our clan. He said he would see me soon, but when questioned, he said there was no time where he was at. I had to physically crawl back into my body upon my return, talk about a freaky experience! A few day later I saw an old friend who had died several years back, and he was the same guy, in every respect. I talked to him for over an hour, he stood right beside my bed. The last one was my Father, who died in 1992. I am forbidden from talking abut him, suffice to say his body was taken the next day after he died, from a locked morgue.

And another thing. I learned a technique for accessing former lifetimes a a few years ago, and have used it to go back quite a ways, enough to know that I have been here on Earth for many years, many lives. I do not recommend this unless you really must know, for you do not easily forget that which you see. You remember all.



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by Solomons
When your brain is starved of oxygen and dies so do you... this is basic common sense. So no, there is no zooming off to some afterlife when you die, it is a hideous and ludicrous concept. But as usual people will create and believe all sorts of fanciful stories to make themselves feel better, i don't respect that but i can understand it.


Ironically from my study of physiological psychology and biological chemistry I have come to realize the exact opposite.

The idea that consciousness is created by the brain alone is a fantasy unsubstantiated by any science.

What will happen after death I can't say.

But there is no reason to believe that just because the physical vehicle is destroyed "beingness" ends.



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 12:04 PM
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The only way you will know for sure is when you die. Until then its all nothing but speculation as to what NDE's actually are. There is a lot more to life than just the physical, we discover more and more new things all the time. Maybe one day we can actually figure out exactly what else is out there.



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Solomons
 


Yikes, I find your idea to be a lot more hideous than an afterlife... Of course, you may be right...but then I think of all the amazing cases of those who exhibit knowledge of a past-life. I mean beyond the whacko set... I mean the cases where one can identify where things used to be, names, places, events, that can be verified, etc. that aren't common or accessible knowledge. Child prodigies (I think) are another example of those who tap into past knowledge or selves.... That energy has to go somewhere, and it'd be awfully depressing if it just went into the earth and sky.... Perhaps our "idea" of what shape that energy should take, is the "real" afterlife. So for you, it just may be wormfood....while others form into something else.



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by elysiumfire
 

Thank you for your well written and deeply thought provoking reply.

I do not Believe that what is being called Soul arises as you have said. To me it is a separate thing.. an aware-energy that "drives" the physical form in use, as we operate a car. As the driver of a car can change that car when it suits them, so too does the energetic-awareness driving the human body change form.

You quoted me when I was simply pointing out that science as yet does not know what Soul is or how to Quantify it. Instead it seeks reasonings to consider the non-existence of Soul and therefore places more importance on it's consideration than it does on finding and quantifying Soul.

In such a scenario it is impossible for us to agree.

I have experience for well over 35 years of Soul and it's higher-level activities, including taking the "dead" into the Light. None of which are tricks of the Mind, and none of which science has a hope of understanding, yet.



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 



And another thing. I learned a technique for accessing former lifetimes a a few years ago, and have used it to go back quite a ways, enough to know that I have been here on Earth for many years, many lives. I do not recommend this unless you really must know, for you do not easily forget that which you see. You remember all.


Can you show this, or teach me this technique I need to know.

I have had contact from the other side as well, it is very real, and there are no words to describe it, but profoundly. You can U2U me if you like.



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 08:54 PM
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Lots of very intresting replys,

Its intresting to read what other peoples opinions, thoughts, speculation & beliefs are on this subject, personaly i think its a belief we are all born with for some reason, if the brain was your souls personal computer then this belief would almost certainly be our pre install OS, regardless if you still do or not its there, that and the fact its in every know culture through out time,

Thank you very much for your replys and please keep them comming



When your brain is starved of oxygen and dies so do you... this is basic common sense


Exactly, so why are clinically dead people with no pulse or brain activity having NDEs,

No offence to you at all, but if everybody to ever walk this planet thought or had that type of attitude we would still be chasing dinner with a stick,



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by elysiumfire
 


Our experience of death would be much more tactile and evidential and correspondent, exhibiting death to be nothing more than a transitory process to a higher aspect of 'being', but 'being' is nothing more than a temporary existence, predicated upon the sustained continuation of biological processes that ultimately fail in their processes...death of the biological entity inevitably ensues, along with the psychological aspect of ourselves. There is no after life.


I have to disagree with you, apparently you have never experience NDE or ADC, but I have, and millions of people all over the world have. I can tell you once you have had one of these experiences it will change your life and in many cases may change your beliefs.
These experiences are very real and I can vouch from my own experiences. I have visually seen and talk with my own dead relatives and friends relatives as well. There is a whole lot more to life, than the physical world.



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 08:58 PM
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maybe this will help?


www.youtube.com...



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by Solomons
When your brain is starved of oxygen and dies so do you... this is basic common sense. So no, there is no zooming off to some afterlife when you die, it is a hideous and ludicrous concept. But as usual people will create and believe all sorts of fanciful stories to make themselves feel better, i don't respect that but i can understand it.


Try spending the night at some old graveyard with a couple blankets and a digital recorder and make fun of all the people that died.. I guarantee you will not even make it the whole night.. Impossible things will start happening to you and you will have some "uh oh!" experiences and realize you were wrong...



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by bobw927
maybe this will help?


www.youtube.com...


Was just looking for something like this

Another intresting listen here


www.youtube.com...



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by SeventhSeal
 


No one has the ability to see after death.

Not true....



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 01:32 AM
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Tayesin:

In such a scenario it is impossible for us to agree.


Thanks for your reply, and I have to agree with you that as things stand in each of our experiences, we cannot reconcile our different perceivings, but this does not mean that dialogue and exchange of views need also cease. I have spent a similar amont of time as you in pursuing an understanding of man's existential being, but alas, I lack the direct experience that others claim to have had.

I am very knowledgable regarding NDE, DBV, ADC, etc, they have been part of my long pursuit, but I am pragmatic and a realist, so my stance without having direct experience of these phenomena, must also be pragmatic and real, and based in empirical evidence where it can be found. However, I am not one to dismiss off-hand many of the claims made by many posters here. I myself do not claim to have had a NDE, nor have I had any form of ADC to my wakeful knowledge. I do have experience of DBV through my grandmother (now deceased), and this lady was never prone to bouts of fantasy. When she told me that she had been visited on a number of occassions by her long dead husband whilst recovering from a massive stroke, I believe fully that she believed entirely in the experience of the visitation.

Tayesin:

I have experience for well over 35 years of Soul and it's higher-level activities, including taking the "dead" into the Light.


Firstly, kudos to you for the work you claim you do, and I don't mean that in any way condescending. However, what you have to understand is how what I have quoted of you here is perceived by someone such as myself. I am sure that you'll understand that even in my open-mindedness I cannot accept what you say. It is for me pure hearsay and not backed up by any evidence. I would put this circumstance on a par with someone coming to me claiming they know you and regaling me with a very negative and pernicious character view of you, I would also not accept that either...not without evidence. This is the quandry between us, where reconciliation cannot be gained.

Of course, as 'Impressme' suggests to me...

I can tell you once you have had one of these experiences it will change your life and in many cases may change your beliefs.
...such direct experience would indeed change my point of view, and wholly shift my paradigm. Nevertheless, as I lack such experience, I reserve the right not to feel aggrieved or somehow 'less' as a entity than someone who claims experience. I may go to my death bed unaccepting of post-mortem consciousness, only to find that I was in error due to continuing consciously, or I may go to my death bed and slip back into the oblivion of non-being, in which case, I and everyone else will not come to know an answer, for in oblivion we are unable to consciously appreciate what the circumstance of death ultimately brings. Without direct experience...oblivion is all I expect.



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 01:53 AM
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Yes, I believe in life after this death. Ask a simple question. DO YOU BELIEVE IN THIS LIFE? The answer of course is yes, because you can see it, touch it and know it to exist. Now think about all the miracles around you, from the wealth of resources to the way that we exist. It's amazing if you really open your eyes and see. Now if this miraculous life can and does exist. Why would people think that another, even greater life cannot exist?
It boggles my mind to think that there are people that cannot wake up and understand that. It all makes too much sense. I'm also amazed at our vast universe. It is amazing and a miracle.
People often say that if they see a miracle, then they may believe, well again, open your eyes, I see miracles every single day, from the rising of the sun, the moon, the ocean tides, the stars in the heaven. As Amazing Grace says, "I was once blind, but now I see". Just open your eyes, your mind and your heart, and then you will believe. If there is this life, with all it's miracles, then of course, there is more to come, we have not even seen the beginning of what is in store for us. This life to exist is a pure miracle and to think that another life is not possible, cannot believe that this life is possible, which of course does not make sense at all.

Take care all.



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by elysiumfire
 

Thank you again. Especially for the further insight into your understandings and how you came to them as a current understanding. I appreciate too that you are willing to move from this current position if other info or evidence becomes available to you. There are no words to express my pleasure in seeing you show this ability openly, it is so very refreshing for me.



and I don't mean that in any way condescending. However, what you have to understand is how what I have quoted of you here is perceived by someone such as myself. I am sure that you'll understand that even in my open-mindedness I cannot accept what you say. It is for me pure hearsay and not backed up by any evidence.


Yep, I've seen the types of responses in many threads. I can understand it to a better degree now after a small realisation.

At first it surprised me to think that deception was an accepted, expected, "normal thing".. and I have noticed it on these forums as being more prevalent in the U.S. than here in Oz, it would seem. There is a large percentage of people in my Country who half roll their eyes and start thinking of anything other than what you are saying to them.. mainly because it doesn't fit their Belief structure, but rarely because they think you are lying.. some will instantly assume mental instability of course.


The inability to reconcile apparently different perceptions would be lessened if we spent an hour sitting, talking and maybe going through some simple methods to have direct experience. I know this may sound like bragging, but these methods have worked for about 80% of the people who tried them under "guidance" and then practiced them daily afterwards. You can read the full simplified methods for free using the link in my signature.
edit on 9-10-2010 by Tayesin because: dyslexic typing fingers make mistakes



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 08:54 PM
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Intresting...





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