Is... There Life After Death ?

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by midicon
reply to post by artistpoet

 

Walt Whitman also wrote, 'I sing the body electric'!

I see you too have many beliefs, based on nothing really.
Beware of beliefs, they will wear you down eventually.
They will become truths for you.
Then where will you be?

Regards Midicon.

I must ask.
With you exhorting others to drop their beliefs,

Where are you... without them?

I am still the same as I am with or without belief

Originally posted by Death_Kron

Originally posted by BRITWARRIOR
Einstein said that energy cant be created or destroyed, it simply moves from one form to another,

I used to use that argument until someone, quite correctly, pointed out that our energy from a rotting corpse will simply be transferred into the soil and ground.

There must be another form of energy, how do you explain seeing things and hearing things in deatail in some of the NDE cases ?

Thats just elements from which our host bodys are made from returning from where it came from, that really would be a mistery? where does the contious energy go?

After seeing this thread I've been fishing around on the Internet for a quote I read once; the problem is I don't know who it's from or specific word choice and order, and haven't been able to find it. But it goes something like this:

Basically the guy was talking about how he and his friend were caught up in a thick crowd of people and everybody was pushing and shoving, and his friend said "See, the best evidence against life after death is that all these idiots want to be immortal."


In all seriousness, it's impossible to know, which is why the question is posed in the first place. I think there may be some sort of ineffable awareness after death, but we would certainly not have the ego-consciousness as we know it. It's too intimately tied to neural activity, and too easily disturbed by brain damage, to be some sort of permanent thing. So I would say the part of us that most badly wants to be immortal will most certainly not be immortal.

But the physical world is actually only an inference, because the only thing we know of for real are mental experiences. We infer the existence of physical reality from the regularity and predictability of certain mental experiences.

It's hard to say. But we'll all find out one way or another, eh?

reply to post by midicon


Explain for us how people who die... according to ekg's and so on that can see things that they shouldn't have?

There is one NDE that happened that was in a controlled setting. This girl was able to say what doctors were talking about and talked about a particular tool that was used to cut open her head..

How was she able to see this?

In the video I presented, How was the blind person able to see in color?

Explain?

These are things people like to ignore when they bring forth the NDE is BS explanation.. Share with us how these things are possible considering these people are not conscience and yet able to tell us what has happened while they were out..

There has been considerable NDE research in the science community to say this is in fact what happens.. Unless of course you are calling all these people liars...

Line to remember..

I would rather believe 10% of the population to have an NDE than 0% of the population to ever see god. You know the reason why this line is important? It is because all kinda people from all walks of life have a near death exp and statistics dictate that it is more than just a coincidence...

But really explain what i asked about.. I would really like to hear this..

And the thing with Cayce, tell me why school are still studying how tf he was able to do what he did? and how he was so accurate? Eh?

reply to post by artistpoet
That question was for midicon, I was curious where he is going with this 'lack of belief' system.

Originally posted by BRITWARRIOR

Originally posted by Death_Kron

Originally posted by BRITWARRIOR
Einstein said that energy cant be created or destroyed, it simply moves from one form to another,

I used to use that argument until someone, quite correctly, pointed out that our energy from a rotting corpse will simply be transferred into the soil and ground.

There must be another form of energy, how do you explain seeing things and hearing things in deatail in some of the NDE cases ?

Thats just elements from which our host bodys are made from returning from where it came from, that really would be a mistery? where does the contious energy go?

On Earth we are limited by our senses which are a very narrow segment of the whole picture.
However we have the ability of inspiration or higher thoughts which can show us what is hidden

reply to post by BRITWARRIOR


I'd agree, the energy that your talking about is what I'd call your life force/soul/spirit although I don't think it can be explained using conventional physics and in that sense Einstein's theory still holds water i.e. energy cannot be destroyed, only transferred or transformed.

What is that energy?

Well it's anyones guess at this moment in time and down to personal interpretation...

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by artistpoet

 

That question was for midicon, I was curious where he is going with this 'lack of belief' system.

Oh! I do apologise - I let my enthusiasm get in the way

reply to post by artistpoet
Enthusiasm is great! More people need it!

reply to post by artistpoet



You believe in, life after death.
You believe all beings have a soul
You believe the body is a tool, used by the soul.

That is what I responded to.
You used Walt Whitman, I did too!
I thought it was appropriate.

I do follow my own advice, or try to.
I also try to give good advice.

I am never vague, quite the opposite,
Perhaps I am a little, how can I put it? unexpansive!

Regards Midicon.

Originally posted by midicon
reply to post by artistpoet

 

You believe in, life after death.
You believe all beings have a soul
You believe the body is a tool, used by the soul.

That is what I responded to.
You used Walt Whitman, I did too!
I thought it was appropriate.

I do follow my own advice, or try to.
I also try to give good advice.

I am never vague, quite the opposite,
Perhaps I am a little, how can I put it? unexpansive!

Regards Midicon.

Thanks Midicom I apologise for my mis interpretation - here is something I wrote a few days ago
Regards Michael


I need to build my story with other experiences to get to the experience of which I would most love to share with you, so please be patient.
I realise my experiences are not unique and hope you too will share yours.

Since I can remember I have had experiences which by logic should not be possible.
One evening when very young my brothers and I were sat on a sofa, our Father was talking to us. A really strange feeling came over me - I knew exactly every word he was going to speak before he actually did so.
It was like I was remembering and looking at myself sat there with my brothers on the sofa. Even tiny details such as Mom in the corner of my eye and her movements were predictable if you like. It felt strange and I wondered if I was somehow dreaming. I just accepted the experience and said nothing to any.

As a child I was known as very sceptical and challenged any oddities outside the norm of every day life. I was known as being a most stubborn child.
One Christmas my Grandmother had wrapped up a present for me and left it under the tree - As usual me and my Bros snook downstairs in the early hours to open our gifts. When I came to open Grandmas gift I realised it was a book - I thought Oh shucks its not chocolate - The book had a picture of a circus clown on it but I coud not make out the title as my reading skills were in their pure infancy - Why had she given me a book I could not read I wondered - I asked my older Bro what the title was "Doubting Thomas" came the reply. Of course that meant nothing to me until later years when I understood the term.

I had dreams about the most mundane things in my youth - these dreams came to be so in reality.
One example being that I dreamt the church youth club (though I was far from religous) had got a set of new snooker cues - next day I go down and hey presto there they are just as I had seen them in my dream.

I had a very close afffinity with a woman C------- . I used to go out for a drink and socialise with C and her partner.
I innocently said to them in the company of other friends - "Oh! I had a dream that you were pregnant last night C" The look on their faces was real shock and they quickly hushed me up and confided in me that they had just found out C was indeed expecting but wished to keep it secret until they married. C later told me that it was so strange as she had conceeded one evening whilst we were all away on a country side break - she said "Dont you remember the look you gave me that night - it was so penetrating I shall never forget it".Like I said I had and do have a very deep affinity with C and she confided many things to me in later years claiming who she was and who I was in past times - It all rang so true as I had such thoughts but put them on the back burner so to speak.

Sorry if this is a slow build up but I just want to ensure you know I am totally sincere - There are many other such incidents but I will tell you of 2 more before I speak of my mind blowing experience.

One night I lay asleep next to my girl friend. I fell into dream - It was the first time in dream I had become aware I was actually dreaming - I recall walking down my girl friends street and I was thinking wow this is actually real, in fact this is super real - I was greatly excited as for me this was proof of things I now believe in.
So there I am going up to girl friends door all excited and thinking - I must tell gf this its all true and so amazing.
I walk up the stairs then see myself asleep next to gf - I was viewing from above so to speak - I suddenly feel myself fall into my body and in the same instant I awake and nudge my sleeping girl friend and excitedly tell her what had just occured - She of course looked at me like I was stark raving mad and simply turned over back to sleep.

I had a profound dream in later years - I will not go into all the details as some are very personal.
I found myself walking on a road with water (sea) either side of this raised pathway. There was a companion with me whom I did not look at or see but knew they were with me. I asked my companion "Where are we" "In Scotland and Wales" came the reply - Now just to explain Scotland is 100s of miles from Wales.
I thought little of it - There were many more details which I shall not include. When I awoke the dream was so powerfull that it actually disturbed me due to some of the details. Some years later I was traveling with friends and we came to cross The Churchill Barrier In the Orkney Isles. BANG my dream was broken I was on the road with the sea either side of it just as I had dreamed. I realised the dream I had had two yeras prior had come to pass - For I had travelled up from Wales where I had moved a year prior. I told my friends who were with me but it meant little to them. There were other details that were exactly as I had dreamed such as buildings and other smaller details.

Now to my most mind blowing dream.
Because I had had dreams that came true so often I realised that there is more at play than we can imagine.
I was on a search for truth and made an inward plea to whatever is bigger than you and I to show me real proof of life after death. Some time later I had such a dream - It was super real and so wonderful that words fall short.
In this dream I realised I was being shown another dimension where soul abides - It was actually like waking up from a dream - Into a place I can only describe as living light - The sense of well being and peace was beyond my Earthly understanding - The environment was alive and pulsed with possibilitys - Like I say words fall short.
I was not in an earthly body yet the being that is I was in some other sort of form which was formless and able to be anywhere and everywhere - I had a very dear friend with me and we communicated by simply a knowing of how we were and felt - It was truly the most amazing experience I have ever had - More real than what we think real is and so beautiful. Next day I spoke to my good friend about the dream and he just gazed at me and said Yes - I had that dream also last night.
I now believe that I was being shown something and realise that through my studies and endevours that this place is a transit realm - a resting place along the way to the true realm of soul/Home.

I have attempted to paint my dreams but of course paintings are nothing near the true experience.
I had a dream which I painted which I felt showed me something else also.
I found myself in a sort of space I can only describe as inbetween.
I looked to my side and downwards - my thoughts told me I was viewing the whole Universe - It was like a starry blue lake below me - Though nothing of stars or galaxies were clear as it sort of pulsed like the whole thing was alive. It was truly beautiful and awe inspiring sort of suspended in a space but not space like we imagine space to be. It suddenly dawned on me that what I was viewing was a reflection and that the source of its light was above me.Something inside me clicked so to speak and I felt total at peace but as I turned to view up towards the source of the light something stopped me and I found myself above the Earth and descended to a place called The White Cliffs of Dover which is the south of England - There was a most terrible storm of storms lashing the shore amd tearing great chunks of the land away - there was more but I will not go into detail - It was A Wake up call for me and since then my mind has become more focused and prepared for changes to come.
I would just like to add that I believe this Inbetween place leads to the transit realms of which I speak.

Death is simply a process we don't fully understand but there is no reason to think we cease to exist because of it.

The idea that "beingness" would cease just because the physical body is destroyed is based on an illusion.

The body is nothing but a vehicle, consciousness is a product of an eternal factor.

The brain alone can not create the observer.

I really feel sorry for anyone that fears death.

reply to post by ThichHeaded


I did say before that NDE’s are useful.
Their study may aid us in our quest to understand consciousness.
However they are not in any sense of the word ‘evidence’ of an immortal soul,
Which after all is the subject here
Of course our preoccupation and curiosity with regard to the subjective experience of dying is understandable.
However it can become unhealthy and lead to all sorts of supernatural mayhem.
We have so many beliefs about so many things based on nothing really.

You know the word near, is a clue in the NDE experience!

Originally posted by midicon
reply to post by ThichHeaded

 

You know the word near, is a clue in the NDE experience!

Definition of Near Death Experience.....

en.wikipedia.org...
These phenomena are usually reported after an individual has been pronounced clinically dead or otherwise very close to death, hence the term near-death experience

Interesting.. Clinicaly dead...
Although I dont like using wiki for source its the 1st one i found on google.

www.thefreedictionary.com...
(Psychology) an experience, instances of which have been widely reported, in which a person near death is apparently outside his body and aware of it and the attendant circumstances as separate from him Abbreviation NDE

Yellow added by me for point making..



::EDIT::

www.allwords.com...
The perception reported by a person who nearly died or who was clinically dead and revived

Originally posted by midicon
reply to post by ThichHeaded

 

I did say before that NDE’s are useful.
Their study may aid us in our quest to understand consciousness.
However they are not in any sense of the word ‘evidence’ of an immortal soul,
Which after all is the subject here
Of course our preoccupation and curiosity with regard to the subjective experience of dying is understandable.
However it can become unhealthy and lead to all sorts of supernatural mayhem.
We have so many beliefs about so many things based on nothing really.

You know the word near, is a clue in the NDE experience!

I like your line of thought as it makes one question and articulate ones own experiences and those of others who relay their experiences to us
I would respectibly disagree that ones beliefs are based on nothing - sureley thay are based on experience
NDEs do most certainly hint at the idea of an immortal soul - My friend now dead relayed such an experience to me - I was with her when she eventually died in hospital - She was perfectly calm and lucid and laughed and comforted her tearful friends telling them not to weep because evrything was good and she knew where she was going and relished the prospect. My Mom too (still alive) had a NDE when very very ill - Her experience made her loose any fears she had once held.
So with repect I say -If you attempted to tell such people their belief was based on nothing they would either laugh or feel pity for your lack of understanding of what they had come to realise as true

reply to post by artistpoet


Thanks for that story artistpoet,

While mine is not the same it hits on the same key,

I certainly believe the body is just a tool to exist in this form, i have suffered from sleep paralysis for as long as i can remember and is one of the reasons i find this topic so intresting and believe there is such thing as the soul/life/force what ever you want to call it,

I have had some very odd experiences in that dream like state, very simular to NDE cases and it just bugs the hell out of me,

I have seen figuers/ghost standing at the bottom of my bed on several occasions over the years all after having Sleep Paralysis,

Clear as day, for up to 1minute and with a hand full of witnesses, if i did not have witneses to this i could quite easy sweep it under the carpet and forget about it and put it down to that condition, i certainly belive now our dream like state is close to that of when we are not in our host body/dead, and goes along way in cases with twins, readings, phycics, all thos Unexplainable Paranormal Studies sciene can not yet explain,

So the story goes, and i will talk about the one i have eye witnesses to, the very last experience roughly 10 years ago, all my Sleep Paralysis experience occure when im phisically & mentally drained/tired and drop of very suddenly to sleep, its almost like i will wake up in the dream and say Huh? i was watching something very intresting then lets wake back up, many many different things happen, sometime its a nightmere that will provoke me to realise im asleep and tell myself to wake, its like my soul has energy but trying to get that body to work again, it take energy from within to wake my body? very odd feeling indeed, i have taken walks around my house & street before noting what everybody in the house is doing, for them to confirm they was in fact doing exactly that, ive been asleep propped up against the bed and watched my brother play computer games and talking when i was in a very heavy deep sleep before, sometimes id be in the other room, or up stairs or down

They happened far more often as a child than they do now i maybe have one of these type of experience once every year now and the big ones far less, by big ones i mean by something they can see coming back!!!

The nightmere type Sleep Paralysis, these are reported all over the world and no i don't believe for one minute its all in your head or due to the condition, like i said i would have done had it not have been for this one event,

So,

I went to bed one night, my brother in the bed on my right and i had my Girlfreind at the time sleeping over in my bed with me, everybody asleep i was the last to drop of as always it takes some time for me to switch off im not a great sleeper at all, i drop off to sleep i have no idea how long i was asleep before i'm dreaming and i'm walking around my street, it feels very real & lucid (you know the type you wake up and it al felt very real) i hear children playing but cannot see them there is a park and house on either side, as im looking about in friends houses there is nobody there the ddor are all open i can hear then talking inside but nobody there,

Screams i then hear scream and the children saying run get away for it? so ok im thinking what and look around, in the ally way i see a huge dark shifting shadow, ok thats it im out of hear, suddenly boom the sun goes out its pitch black gravity is pulling me to the floor i can't move, i struggle to get up and start to move, i run up to the fields, its a short cut home every corner i take my feet come of the floor and i have to hold onto things to not fly of in one direction, im running in slow motion and this thing is getting closer & closer, home is in sight,

I run into my house, up the stairs into my bedroom slam the door with both hands and some how end up feeling my body back laying in bed unable to wake a loud noise getting louder & louder im tensing up my body to wake up every try/push to wake up weakens me and its more of an effort to tense up my body and open my eyes, so i start to scream in my head, help over and over,

This must have woke my brother & my girlfriend, because when i finally opened my eyes this thing/dark shadow was standing in my doorway/landing shifting about the hair on the back of my neck was standing i was so shocked it was like electric rushing though my body, ive never felt anything like it, the door begins to slowly then just like that slammed shaking the entire house, after the shock had gone i shouted did you see that did you see that and sat up in bed pointing, i turn around and both my GF & brother was laying there still in shock, after they said erm yeah, obviously the rest of the family come out of there room and said what the hell is going on

I said i don't know and told them what we see but not what i see, it took me a while to talk about it and i don't think i will ever forget about it, i still ly in bed at night looking towards the door,

With all these Sleep Paralysis experience over the years im convinced there is such a thing as a soul/life force and NDE & ghosts all tho i dont no how or why but IMO they are all linked in some way, and its the reason i am here on these forums today. looking for MY answers to MY questions. i don't want to prove anything to anybody i don't have the time, i just want my answers, and to listen to everybody elses storys and try to understand its as best as i can,

reply to post by ThichHeaded


You know many people have been declared clinically dead, and survived.
Does this mean they weren’t dead after all?

We may have to use more sensitive instruments perhaps?
The moment of death may be difficult to pinpoint?
We do not fully understand consciousness?
There are people, who have been in deep coma for years,
Declared brain dead and yet have not only recovered, but have been conscious of events.
The immortal soul may not be a prerequisite when studying NDE’s.
The concept may have nothing to do with them at all.

Regards Midicon.

reply to post by ThichHeaded

reply to post by midicon


You still have not answered my question.. Ignoring it perhaps.. Here it is again..

How is it that people who have NDE's can describe in detail things they saw while being technecly dead? how is it that they can tell things that are going on around them while they are unconscience? How is it that they can do things they cant in reality?(AKA Blind Lady, and The lady who was under getting brain surgery?

Explain how this can happen ?

So you know alot of people talk about this right after they wake up.. So there probably is no way they can have some secret recorder or something..
And most of these are backed up by doctors, nurses, EMS workers, and so on who have been on scene..

reply to post by BRITWARRIOR


Hi BRITWARRIOR - I have sent you a U2U with a link which you may find very useful
Regards Michael

The link I sent youshould take you to a site - Look then at their online books and chapter 10 Dreams
Regards Michael