Is there a God?

If there is then time will tell, if there is not then we may never know. Here are a few of my humble thoughts on the subject:

--==INFINITY==--

The universe 'begins' with a bang! All parts expand outward from it's center.

The bang is a singular force, it lasts for only an instant and the force is immediately converted to outward momentum for all of the universe's parts. All matter exerts a gravitational force upon all other peices of matter. All of the universe's parts are exerting this force pulling all of it's parts back together. Gravity is a constant force that decreases in strength the farther away an object is from it's source, however; the force never reaches zero and extends out to infinity. The universe's outward momentum is slowed down due to gravity pulling it back together. Eventually gravity gets the best of the outward momentum causing the universe to cease it's expansion and begin to collapse back upon itself. Because the same force, gravity, that slowed the universe's expansion is now accelerating it's collapse the universe's collapse accelerates at the exact same rate it previously decellerated. Because of this once the universe collides at it's center it does so with the exact same force that was contained in the original bang. The parts of the universe essentially bounce off of each other causing another bang of the exact same force of the original. This cycle never ceases.

Interestingly enough there's a Human race in said universe. This race is evolving as the universe expands. In just a mere few hundred thousand years the Human race has created tribes, villages, cities, nations, empires and an entire world wide civilization. This race will continue to evolve over the eons, creating new technologies that unlock previously unthinkable amounts of control over the universe. At some point we will gain the ability to create stars (fusion), planets, solar systems, even galaxies, we're already working on black holes (large hadron collider). In the end the Human race will make it's greatest creation... The universe.

How? Using supremely advanced technology, after an infinite amount of eons pass by, the Human race will calculate and rearrange all of the matter in the universe. Once the universe collides at it's center it will create a chain-reaction that was pre-planned by the Human race. Everything that comes of the resulting explosion will be planned by Humans as part of the chain reaction, including nature and the Human race itself. The previous time the universe went through this cycle the Human race created the chain-reaction that created this universe and we will create the chain-reaction that creates the next universe. This cycle never ceases.

The Human race from the previous universe is the God of this universe and we will be the God of the next universe. We created ourselves in our own image. We are the beginning and the end.

--==God==--

No one man creates the universe, this is accomplished by the Human race as a whole. God created the universe and gave command of all the universe to mankind, himself(us). After all it is His Story.

God is a new class of organism, whereas today we have single celled, multi-cellular and complex multi-cellular organisms God is a multi-complex multi-cellular organism or MC2. Each individual Human being makes up one individual neuron in God's brain, the rest of the universe makes up God's body. Where your brain controls your body so to does God's brain control his body.

God did not just appear out of nowhere, he grew up too just like we do. We are God and we evolved and evolve. Today God is very young, you might call it something like the terrible two's phase for a human child. God's brain, the Human race, has multiple personality disorder, he's insane. Different parts of God's brain are at war with each other. We call this things like WWII, racism, and hate. This is known as Satan, or God as a child or God before he became self-aware. We humans like to think we are self-aware, problem is we are not, we do not know that we are God and thus God does not yet know he is God. This is why Satan is depicted as half man half animal. Animals are not self-aware, Satan has the intelligence capacity of a Human, but like an animal lacks self-awareness. Once the Human race finally finds the correct idea of God it will unite in agreement ceasing to be Satan and become God.

You might call this my own personal religion, invented by myself.

Interesting thoughts, make for a very good story. You needn't stop there. So this system of god manifesting itself through creation becoming a human race through evolution developing the technology to create universes....how did this system come to be to begin with? Can't be entirely circular can it? Where does it take place? Come on, feed my imagination

reply to post by Symbiot


I think we all at one time or another drive ourselves mad asking ourselves questions like if the Universe is finite, what lies beyond or where did the Universe itself come from. My Faith however comes from other things that would be wasted in a post here.

Is there a God? Yes.
Am I sure? Yes.

reply to post by The Endtime Warrior


Entirely circular is the idea actually. Matter is neither created nor destroyed and as such it always was and always will be. The staging grounds for this infinite universe is in the middle of nothing. The idea here is that there is absolutely nothing outside of the Universe, hence the term UNIverse. Uni meaning one and verse meaning phrase, so one phrase that describes everything. Since universe is an inclusive statement that describes all things then if it is a thing it is in the universe, if it is nothing then it is not in the universe.

All matter inherently has forces of attraction and forces of repulsion and this is where the Universe's infinite expansion/contraction cycle derives, always being attracted and repulsed from itself. In my mind it would stand to reason that every time the Universe goes through this cycle it could happen differently every time. An infinite universe yields infinite possibilities. You see the force of gravity itself is one of infinity. If you lookup the formula for gravity you'll notice that it is one of division which means regardless of distance the force never reaches zero. So you could say that the universe expands/contracts and then does so again, but this time it's exactly the same except that one single atom on mars is 0.00003928 microns out of place compared to the last time the universe cycled, but since that one single atom is out of place and it's gravity effects every other atom in the universe then every atom is out of place by a proportional amount.

The way I see it the Universe could've gone through this cycle an infinite number of times before now without yielding intelligent life at all and so every time it cycled it cycled differently until it finally cycled yielding intelligent life. Once the Universe cycles and yields intelligent life capable of reshaping the Universe in the manner I previously described then forever afterwards the Universe could cycle exactly the same if said intelligence deemed it so.

reply to post by Symbiot


Ok I'm with ya, I've pondered the notion of this universe cycling over and over again. What are your thoughts on parallel universes? Or in this system you speak of, not able to account for things like that.

To get to the real question, is there a God? No, not in my opinion. I think the word God is not the correct word to describe the spirit that most speak of. Is there a creator, designer, steward or father of the universe? Yes, I believe that may be the case, but the word God does not encompass that idea. God is an idealistic name for what we hope is true. Would God even like being called a god, considering what most religions have done is his name?

reply to post by The Endtime Warrior


My thoughts on dimensions or parallel universes is that they actually happen sequentially rather than simultaneously. Sequentially as in each time the universe cycles a new universe is born and it could be exactly the same or entirely different. The theory or theories of separate universes existing alongside each other simultaneously would actually be considered a multiverse since there is more than one.

At the same time there are likely different sections of this universe that obey entirely different laws of physics, or rather different than how we understand the laws of physics. Things that are extremely large, such as planets, solar systems and galaxies seem to obey physical laws differently than things that are extremely small such as atoms quarks and gluons. So it could be said that the universe of the small is a different dimension compared to the universe of the large, the small and large dimensions exist simultaneously. Moreover we really haven't seen much of the universe, though many may think we have. If you take a look at the planet earth you'll see that the heaviest materials are at it's center and the lightest around it's edges, our solar system is arranged in the same manner with heavier planets closer to the sun and lighter planets/objects farther out towards the edges of the solar system. I would imagine that our galaxy is arranged in the same manner and on an even larger scale the entire universe.

Having said that, to me it would stand to reason that there are as of yet undiscovered materials out there in sections of the universe that would be either heavier or lighter than the materials we have access to in our neck of the woods. If the universe were arranged like Earth, with heavier materials near the center and lighter materials around the edges then there should be many different sections of the universe that could actually behave according to laws of physics we have not yet seen. These sections of the universe could be considered different dimensions or parallel universes separated only by distance.

reply to post by Symbiot


I like how your mind thinks. You are right about parallel= multiverse since we are speaking of a "universe" than sequentially would make sense. Is time travel possible in your eyes or do you view that in an entirely different way then the conventional definition?

In your description it would seem there would never be a problem of running into another "you" on a different plane of existence.

reply to post by The Endtime Warrior


Time is an interesting concept and it would seem that modern science has gone a ways into proving that the amount of time one experiences is related to how fast the one is traveling through the universe. I do have some differing thoughts on the subject of time travel, but none of them involve actually being able to travel backwards in time to the point of changing anything, so paradoxes such as traveling back to kill your father making it so you would never be able to make the trip in the first place don't occur.

According to Hawking one could accelerate beyond the speed of light and thus be traveling backwards in time. Along these lines my theory would be, and these numbers are completely arbitrary, that it could take 4 years to accelerate to the speed of light then 4 years, backwards in time, to continue accelerating beyond the speed of light putting you at the exact moment you left. Then take another 4 years to decelerate back to the speed of light, you are now 4 years before you left. Then another 4 years to decelerate to a stop, forwards in time, so you stop at the exact moment you left. In this method one could travel backwards in time, but at any point that you are existing before you left on your journey you are traveling way too fast to make any changes, moreover you are likely to be extremely far away so meeting yourself is quite unlikely.

Then again one could say that traveling faster than the speed of light does NOT actually propel one backwards in time, but only propels one faster. It is said that the person traveling at the speed of light experiences no time and so arrives at their destination at the same time they left, but those not traveling that fast would have aged however many light years you traveled. So if one traveled faster than the speed of light that person would simply still experience no time and thus arrive at their destination at the same time they left, but those not traveling that fast would only have aged whatever measurable amount of time it visibly took for you to travel there.

Lets say you travel 6 light years at the speed of light, you aged nothing, but everyone on Earth aged 6 years. Now lets say you travel twice the speed of light, you still age nothing and everyone on Earth ages 3 years.

I wanna add to this a bit. As much as I like the Hawking theory, I'm really behind the idea that one is always traveling forward in time. I said that traveling at the speed of light one experiences no time, but I actually believe that one DOES experience forward time advancement, only that it is infinitely close to zero. So traveling faster than light only makes it so that the one traveling that fast experiences infinitely closer to zero time, but still experiences forward time movement. So one could travel faster and faster and only come closer and closer to experiencing zero forward time movement, but never actually reach zero time from point a to be.

reply to post by Symbiot


Creative stuff here, the part about us controlling the collapse of the Universe would make a pretty solid premise for some sort of sci-fi story. However it isn't exactly a religion yet, as religions typically have rituals and moral guidelines and typically involve a supernatural God.

Good luck creating your own religion... I went down that road before, more as a joke than anything else, even tried writing my own religious text for it but never got too far.

As for the question put forth in the OP... I don't know if there is a god. In order to make the call that there definitely isn't a God we'd need to possess almost all knowledge of the entire Universe and in order to prove there definitely is a God we'd need solid scientific proof of one. Right now there's no evidence of any gods existing so I choose not to believe in one.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


I suppose it depends on how one defines religion. Conventional religions of today tend to have rituals and traditions, what is tradition other than the act of doing something simply because you always have? Anyway my personal definition of religion doesn't involve ritual, but rather simply means a belief in how best to live ones life and perhaps how one believes the universe came to exist in it's current state.

What I like best about what I'm calling my religion, and why wouldn't I like it, is that it's not messy like other religions. There's a clearly defined creator, us, and a clearly defined method of creation, the chain-reaction.


Along the same lines, not being messy is what I like about my theory on time travel, which is that one can only travel infinitely faster and infinitely closer to zero time between point a and b. It does not deal with unknowns, things we cannot see or define, it does not deal with paradoxes or alternate time lines.

By the way Titen-Sxull I like your signature, that's probably one of the reasons I decided to sit down and come up with my own stuff. I never liked the thought that a good God would get in the way of our own personal lives. I actually think that he, we, did, in fact, give ourselves free will with the intent that we use it in whatever manner we wish. The ideas of good and evil are not really right and wrong, but rather, healthy and unhealthy. If we make good choices than we are making healthy choices, if we make evil choices then we make unhealthy choices.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by Symbiot

 

I think we all at one time or another drive ourselves mad asking ourselves questions like if the Universe is finite, what lies beyond or where did the Universe itself come from. My Faith however comes from other things that would be wasted in a post here.

Is there a God? Yes.
Am I sure? Yes.

Wow, I have gone a long time never meeting someone else who gave this answer. Now I wonder how many people can say that? Maybe there are a bunch of us?

I realize my own experience can never be used by someone else to prove the existence of God, but here's my deal and I share it freely.

I was born to an atheist and an agnostic. I didn't get much religion at all when I was young. But I had friends who were religious -- one of them was in a cult that believed California would slide into the Pacific in 1984. This did not happen, obviously.. but that friend was very adamant that I think about joining his religion, because if I didn't, he thought I couldn't be saved.

I didn't really believe him, but he did make me start to wonder about God and religion.

I was a rational kid, so I said to myself, if there is a God, couldn't he tell me about it himself? I didn't see why not, so I just plain asked. I got down on my knees and said something like, "God, if you exist, please tell me what you are like, because everybody says something different about you."

I thought I would either get an answer, or I'd wake up without one, and either way I'd know.

I won't make a long story of it. I had a basic "near death experience" without having to go to the trouble of dying. I never saw him, but was drawn up into what seemed like a vast opening universe of quiet excitement, stillness, peace, friendliness, and good humor. It is hard to put into words, but I found that there was a person in this vast opening universe who could answer my question without words. What he did was let me see things from his point of view; in other words, he showed me what he was like through direct experience.

I know I can't prove that he was God, but I think anyone who had that experience would have had the same reaction I had -- I knew that he was God. I recognized him. It was like, "Oh yeah!"

He wasn't anything like any description I ordinarily see given by the religious or the philosophers. I mean, they are right when they call him awesome, but you have to understand, his awesomeness is simple and serene and infectious. He is awesome toward you. He's proactively awesome in your favor, and you feel it and feel awesome toward him. I mean, worship as you see it in a church seems so hollow in comparison. I should not knock it, because we live here without direct knowledge of that experience. Still, church has never been an easy place for me because I just don't get the same vibe.

Anyway, I realize people have trouble believing he exists because of our crappy world. I think our world is the way it is because he has given us all free will, and he will not break it for any reason, because if he gives his word, it's forever. But he loves each one of us more than even our parents could. I also got the distinct idea that he doesn't expect anything of us except to learn and grow, and he knows that we will.

If anyone thought there was an angry fellow in the clouds, I did not meet that guy.

People look at the world and see how messed up it is and they say there can't possibly be a God, but you have to see it from his point of view -- we're just little kids. We make messes and beat each other up sometimes. When your three year old draws on the wall, you do not send him to the basement forever.

I didn't see any hint of anger, jealousy, or any negative thing in him.

I realize that I might have been mistaken about certain aspects of what I experienced, but I know the experience was real, because as it receded, there I was wide awake in my bedroom.

I've never had another experience quite like it, though God continues to be very kind to me, even to the point of answering questions of mine in dreams when I ask for them directly. He has never asked one thing of me. I've got to tell you, I love him. I feel a fierce loyalty to him, but I do not feel dogmatic. I don't think anyone else has to believe if they don't want to. I'm sure things are going the way they ought to. I never detect the slightest worry.

So, anyway, yes, I believe there is a God. And he is way cool.

I don't like to be denominational, but he did give me one piece of advice -- he told me to read the words of Jesus. I've read the whole Bible since, and man, I just don't get into most of it. But the words of Jesus -- just the things he said. Those resonate. There's a real philosophy there.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let US make mankind in OUR image, in OUR likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

reply to post by Symbiot


Elaborate what that verse means to you. I'm curious as what you have to say. I know many people interpret the Bible differently and it's fun to find what others think of the book.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel




To me this is part of a statement that God created everything, obviously I've already laid out my thoughts on how I think he, or we, did that.

More importantly though, in this particular phrase we see that God says not only did he, or US, create all of the things here, but also Mankind. Of paramount importance, to me, he says that he gave dominion of all of the things he has created to Mankind. The interesting thing to note is that he did not say he gave one thing to one person or another thing to another person, but that he gave ALL things to ALL people. This means that we all own all of the things in this universe, we are each co-owners of absolutely everything, except each other. This is important to me because I feel this means that we are to share all of the things he created and gave to us. If we are all owners of all of the things then how can one person choose to sell something without first consulting ALL of it's other owners? That would be theft would it not?

To sum it up I don't see why someone would need to buy something that they already own.

A favourite quote of mine:

" I may disagree strongly with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

A favourite quote of mine:

" I may disagree strongly with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

For me planet earth is run by what christians call satan, or the devil. This is what you worship at xmas, under the guise of santa, which is just satan, with the moved.

The last 60 years is the first time in modern mankinds history that the devil is something society does not beleive in, and you only got that from tv and movies. Every society on earth before believed in an entity as the devil or satan figure.

reply to post by Symbiot


You stated,

--==INFINITY==-- The universe 'begins' with a bang! All parts expand outward from it's center. The bang is a singular force, it lasts for only an instant and the force is immediately converted to outward momentum for all of the universe's parts.

This is contrary of the Biblical explanation of creation

Science tells us we exist in time-space and we are matter.

The Lord or God told us that in the Beginning (time) God created the Heavens (space) and the earth (matter). And the earth was never a large hot ball of volcanic activity is was covered with water when first made and then dry land was lifted out of the depths of the water. The earth did not see volcanic activity until the Flood of Noah's day.

When the springs of the deep erupted and the water chamber between the exterior crust and the interior came out allowing the two to rub together which then due to the great amount of material melted under the great pressure.

Now the heavens may have banged but they were not filled with matter expanding in all directions yet.
The Earth is the relative center of the universe as we are in a location able to see everything with pretty good clarity.

On the forth day God created all the celestial bodies and put them in motion

Pss.104

1. [2] Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

You see the word stretchest in the KJV bible any word that ends in est or ech means that it continually happens.

Now Einstein said that time and space was like a fabric, hmmp wonder where he got the concept because the Lord told David that when he wrote it down in simplistic terms of a curtain that is continually stretching.

You see this also give an explanation for why we can see light from stars many light years away. If the stars were created in close proximity to the earth then as God stretched the heavens away from us the light would always be visible here, in relations to if they were created far away then much time would have to pass for the light to become visible here.

reply to post by Symbiot


The existence and/or nonexistence of a deity isn't actually the issue of "Origins and Creationism", it's the issue of the "Religion, Faith, and Theology" forum.

The concept of a deity is not necessarily tied to the subject of creation. There can be deities that are merely a product of the same universe we are.

Your conception of a deity, while it does seem like it needs some elaboration, is quite different from many on here, but it would be better fit for a discussion centered around religious concepts rather than the sorts of things we debate on here.