Ancient Vase Mystery

Here is the vase in question, it has been away in my mothers attic for about 30 years now. She says her father purchased the item when they lived in Singapore in the 1960's. Having found this bronze vase I have been intrigued into finding where it comes from and what it says on the base.



This is a picture of the base, it's not the clearest of images so I made a small picture of the symbols. The one that stands out is the swastika.



A simple drawing of the symbols are here, if you could help me find a translation or atleast where the vase originats from I would be very grateful. It's a puzzle I am enjoying to solve! I hope I got the right part of the forum for this if not could a mod move it?

Thanks

Estar gl!

I'm no expert but the design looks somewhat Korean. The symbols resemble Chinese superficially, Sorry, but that;s all I can do.

Hi,

Well If it was from Singapore then chances are that it is in fact from somewhere else like Korea, Japan or china. If you look at the Satsuma Vases of Japan they too have a distinct writing pattern on the base. So do vases from the 30 and 40 from Korea.

Singapore is a hard place to authenticate things from, firstly the British were stationed there in the 70's and many brought artifacts from holiday trips to South East Asia and left them in Singapore. IN the 30's and 40's there was a small influx of Koreans and Chinese from China before that was suddenly halted.
Many Artifacts were lost in Singapore as they were transported from around the world to Australia. Singapore being a stop over for travelers to Australia. Singapore shipping ports and Malaysian Shipping port were big business in the 60's-80's too.

I would start with Vases from the 30's and 40's from China, Korea and Japan.

Hope that helps.

Dude, problem solved:

www.bbc.co.uk...

Those folks could tell if you had Napoleon's tweezers!

...the swastika is a good sign that was around a long time before nazis hi-jacked it...

...definitely contact the antique road show people - they're awesome...

...beautiful piece, lucky you...

A 70-year old vase is hardly "ancient". Interesting looking vase otherwise.

www.symbols.com...

The circle with the dot is a sun symbol as is the swastika, Check out the link I gave you...has a lot of interesting things that may help you.

~holly

Alas, I can't read Chinese, but it's definitely Chinese. Know anyone who's from China/Taiwan? They could tell you in a few seconds. Also, your drawing and the photo are rotated. Turn the symbols 90 degrees counterclockwise.

Originally posted by JJRichey
A 70-year old vase is hardly "ancient". Interesting looking vase otherwise.

True in deed my friend. 70 years is not even considered antique.

Well I have no idea if it's 70 years old other than the guys post before, all I know was my grandad was in the RAF and picked up antiques when he was in Singapore. I will send it to the roadshow and see how I get along

Thanks, for the help people!

reply to post by Byrd




I have rotated the image and improved the contrast in photoshop, can't do nothing about the blurryness of the image my camera is not very good at all !

Well a little bit of a update, posting on another forum to try and get it translated, a woman says it's pre-mao chinese so she can't translate

The "swastika" sign is at the "top" of the set of symbols. These aren't "pre-Mao" symbols since the Chinese language didn't change during the time of Mao (nor did the typography. A small bit of googling shows that the swastika sign is part of the word, "Wan zi" and is a sign for good luck.
babelstone.blogspot.com...

Hello, I hope this helps, My wife ( who is Chinese and her primary language is Mandarin )
Say's the written symbols mean B.C. (before Christ) of the Zhou and Chao dynasties.
The swastika, could mean any number of things because it is used with the B. C. symbols, but more than likely it is for Hell or long suffering.

Yes, the swastika is suppose to be at the top, your correct, but the lettering appears distorted she says.
It was hard to read.
Sorry, I hope that helps. She does believe the vase to be old, but very possibly a copy of an older vase.

I forgot to add, she became a little nervous about the vase, it appeared to have frightened her, but most traditional Chinese are a very, very superstitious people.

Dont know a thing about it.
Tried to clean up the pic a bit.
Don't really have the tools.
Maybe it'll help though.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/98c2aac090a9.png[/atsimg]

reply to post by guohua


Thanks for the reply, very intresting indeed!

My opinion is that it is a replica of an older vace - post WWII. If it were from one of the ancient dynasties it would have a patina which would be desirable to a collector. I would not suggest cleaning the vase with chemicals because as it ages it will form a patina and that is more desirable to collectors as it may have more value as it continues to age. I learned my lesson when I cleaned some very old coins - I couldn't sell them for their value because I had cleaned and polished them. Good luck on your venture!

Forgot to leave: Patina - A thin greenish layer, usually basic copper sulfate, that forms on copper or copper alloys, such as bronze, as a result of corrosion.

reply to post by guohua


I hope you mean the symbols are identified as from the BC time, and that they don't actually mean BC.

I mean how can anything be dated as BC?

I have emailed the British Musuem Asia department about the vase, hopefully they can get back to me or atleast send me in the right direction!

reply to post by Khaaaaaan!!


As I mentioned before, the symbols Zhou Chao, speak of the B. C. time frame, about 1200 b. c. to 400 b. c.
( I think ) The symbol Zhou has a - above the o and Chao as an ' above the a.
Now, Zhou and Chao are both references to two separate dynasties, what is important is that both dynasties had great power between 1200 b. c. and 800 b. c.
Like I said before, after my wife looked and studied the art on the vase she could see, she became nervous of the art and stated the vase depicts old China with the dragon and smiling Crocodile and the flames.
My wife being traditional Chinese is very superstitious.
My wife believes the vase you have is very old, but she believes it is a copy, the ( o ) at the bottom depicting the sun below the two dynasties is unusual and not very common at all and not a good Omen or Sign for life being under the swastika like that.Any way, that is her thoughts after looking at the pictures you provided.
I could not get her to look again just now for this reply.
Take the meaning as you like Khaaaaaan!!, I will not upset my wife, not a good idea, you might say, bad karma.