Nice thread. I was watching jim morrison on a drunken rant saying 'I don't believe there should be a president; I believe it should be a pure democracy'.

Sure thing jimbo. As long as you have the microphone, or bullhorn.

This is a serious subject, despite the levity ingrained in to the format.

For example, I was saddened to learn that among our board anarchists, one acted as though animal companions (pets) were just some material possession, that are disposable, based on whether or not your check had cleared with the fire department. This turned me off to the concept of 'anarchy' because I didn't realize the depths of depravity among man, and taking away all order to make it john galt ville now seems a little dangerous. I always wondered if john galt would clean up after himself, contain his messes etc.... Look at Hungary. Though this was probably deliberate, it is horrific. (I think tptb are waging a war on essentials such as water and food, personally). A closer look at the applications of said anarchy is disturbing. Privatized cops, yep. So if I hate you I can just pay the cops to do a super duper job of arresting you? I can write the heartlessness off by considering that the statements were simply pedantic conclusions based on utopian ideals, yet the image of firemen letting animals burn while their equipment was on site is somewhat seared in to my brain at the moment.

Power is a stage set with many trap doors. One is that you don't want to become the tyranny that you sought to destroy. I don't trust anyone with this trip. It is best to realize that 'power' is really a concept that demands deep, deep reflection on theory. It may also be true that true power is impossible, once publicized, or rather, once institutionalized. It may be much more subtle, and much more powerful, than anyone imagined. Anyone here, at any rate, present in this time.

One of the best images I have read of regarding power is in a book titled 'Atlas Shrugged'. A voice lock is devised, which reads the absolute intentions and sincerity of the heart before releasing it's contents. I believe man is working on this sort of equipment at this moment, yet it is bound to failure. Power is just too tempting for us to do anything this pure. They are breaking into minds and setting traps as to further more totalitarianism, rather than allowing peace and security of one's treasures.

Another stray thought: I suspect that once one is well off, everything of real value (true power) begins to decline.

Anyway, nice thread.

Lots to think about here, OP.

Once again good thread s and f

now to the meat...

I have faced this corruption head on.... I am winning enough to know I need to hit harder still....

Anyways....

It is my belief that the founders realised that eventually their experiment would fall. They gave hope and prayed that following generations would realize what they were trying to do. They attempted to the best of their ability as a whole to prevent the tyranny the knew would come eventually.

they made mistakes but attempted to give us room to learn and grow.

In the hopes that our mistakes would not become errors


They added a few impediments to the tyranny they saw... A series of checks on the government itself

The biggest being freedom of speech....
Followed by freedom of religion

The best was the right to bear arms... (poor bears....)

The last one was acknowledged by admiral yamamoto ....

You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.

if he said it or not is not important the message is....


As for a puppet state... I think we are close but it is not a direct control more of a we have the power we need and nothing can be done about it....

Hi SKL,

I've avoided posting to this thread for a couple of days because this is really the rarified air for us politically interested types. This is the grail quest for curious and worldly minded. Of course, many can see that there are puppets. Fewer have the ability to discern the marionette from the actor. And fewer still can begin to see the fine silken strings attached to those who are under control...

But to follow that string and see the hand of the puppet master? Now that is something to dream of. That is a worthwhile goal. So many seek this grail and, as far as I, or I assume anyone else knows for sure, few, if any, ever achieve it.

I believe myself to be one of those who can at least see the puppet strings. I can tell the special effect from what is sincere. Chances are that I probably paranoia myself into seeing strings where none exist. But this also means that at least some of the strings I see are real. The discipline, which may be impossible to master, for me, is to learn to tell the difference between the imagined and the truly perceived.

The evidence before me, in this endeavor, all seems secondary. The curtains of this world block my view of the puppeteer so I am left to learn what I can about him by simply watching his works. By looking for subtle hints in the ways that his motions are magnified by his craft. Through this method, there is much information to be garnered.

Money is at the core of it all, to be certain. That ancient urge, that we call greed, which led our earliest ancestors to fight over bites of freshly killed animal, or to kill over a shiny and particularly sharp stone. We don't need history books to understand these things. They are in our genetic memory. These scenes echo in our hearts even still. The want of money must surely shape the puppet masters motions. His dance reeks of it. The tremors in his hands betray his lusts for profit. The pained faces of the working man gives us testimony.

But is money really the final and last say in this subject? I honestly think not. Wealth is a powerful drug, but there is a greater high to be had. Beyond unimagined wealth lies a much deeper drive. A more corrupt and primal urge. Something so profane that we scarcely allow ourselves to believe in it...

and that is the urge to become God. To control so utterly and completely that only the word "god" would do the position justice.

Within this motive, the puppet masters idiosyncratic motions become legible.This goal makes all those little ticks and spasms, as shown by the puppet, make sense to me.

But now I am left with the question "Who owns the hand which pulls the strings in a ritual intended to make men into gods?". Who could have had the patience to do this work, generation upon generation, age upon age? How could this level of commitment to any goal ever become manifest in our ever changing world?

For these questions I truly lack answers.

Rome has been suggested. The power build upon the seven hills. Salvation to some, Babylon to others. And Rome seems a rational answer. So many minds molded over the centuries. So much land and wealth accumulated. So much of an influence upon the modern world. Rome is a possibility.

Other voices have suggested the oligarchical structures of corporatism. Businessmen and bankers who, in a relatively short time, have managed to take as much as Rome ever had, possibly even more. These monsters in fashionable clothing who use our own wants and needs to make slaves of us all... These profiteers who become so enamored with numbers that they lose sight of souls. These entities, as well, fit the mold and could well be pulling the strings of the puppets we look to for leadership.

Ultimately I think that it's all of the choices listed here, among others. That no one hand control the puppet for long. I think the strings have become so varied and incestuously intertwined that we may find a dozen hands making the mannequins dance. We may even find none - just a bunch of monkeys pulling strings blindly, focused solely upon their own gratification.

From the perspective of a mortal - a working man - it occurs to me that, though the grail exists out there, somewhere, it would be a fools errand to chase it. As long as I can recognize and quench my own thirst, and know from where the water has flowed, I have done all that I, as a man, can do.

Well that and always look to myself to make sure that there are no strings attached to me.

~Heff

Great thread SKL

Needless to say, you get a S&F from me. I have to admit that I, much like Hefficide, was a little hesitant in responding to your thread. Not because I didn't want to participate but after first reading the OP and the responding post, I realized that this was indeed a deep thought provoking subject and I needed some time to think about it before posting.

Not having the background knowledge in history that some here on ATS have, including yourself, I had to analyze the problem from a slightly different perspective. It has been my experience in life that when it comes to corruption, the culprit is usually the one with the most to gain from the crime and more often than not, that gain is financial. Or in simple terms, "Follow The Money."

Even though the money trail usually leads to the culprit, the only term I could think of to describe their motive is "Greed." But then I ask myself, "what is greed?" I sometimes wonder if greed isn't a mental disorder, much like the disorder that causes people to become hoarders. They don't seem to have the ability to determine when enough is enough, and at what cost to themselves and others. The only difference I see is that the super wealthy will "invest" some of their money in order to acquire even more of it, whereas a hoarder seldom holds a garage sale in order to acquire more funds to buy more junk.

When it comes to politics, it makes me wonder how someone like Meg Whitman can justify spending over 100 million of "her own personal money" in an attempt to acquire a political office that pays a little over $212,000 per year. I am not naive enough to believe that she just wants to be a public servant. When someone with a net worth of 2 billion dollars resorts to hiring illegals as house servants, it becomes apparent that "servitude" does not rank highly with them. The other thing that becomes apparent is that fact that they are so attached to their money that they would even break the law, (hiring illegals) in order to save or "hoard" a few bucks.

Common logic tells me that she has a plan to somehow recoup that 100 million, plus a healthy profit, through her position as governor. That means of recovery must be the "Puppet Strings" we are talking about and if the "Puppeteers" can afford to repay her campaign expenses plus a profit, then they must be planning to make considerably more than that from having her in office. It may be time for us to adopt legislation that would track the net worth of politicians from the time they enter office until some ten years or so after they leave, just to attempt to identify some of the "puppeteers."

I agree with Hefficide, that in some instances, it may be the "god" status that some wish to attain but, by and large, I think that greed plays a much larger role in today's society. Today money has taken the place of the hunter/gatherers' meat and there are still people who would kill to take it from one another. But then again, in a materialistic society, isn't god the one with the most means or money?

Money is both, the treasure they yearn for and the tool they use to acquire more of it. Therefore, I am convinced that until we find a way to publicly finance our elections and totally outlaw lobbying by paid lobbyist, we will dance the dance of the puppeteer. In a true democracy, nothing can be allowed to have a louder voice than that of the people and corporations are not people. The citizens united supreme court decision is the most blatant sign of corporate control, (puppet strings) over our lives that I've seen in my lifetime and IMO it's completely insane. Call me stupid but I always thought that "people" were the result of a live birth.

Greed is the enemy, plain and simple. It's been around forever and in some circles, it's extremely contagious. Someone once said that when you argue with your mate, you are really arguing with yourself. It's yourself that you see in others that you dislike. I think that the greedy dislike seeing their own need to the extent that they try to compensate by hoarding in an attempt to make themselves not feel needy. In other words, the last thing they want to see themselves as, is needy.

I believe that you cannot "truly" help yourself without helping others and you cannot harm others without harming yourself in the process. Someone else once said that it's not a sin to become rich but it is definitely a sin to die rich. I think that Bill and Melinda Gates' pledge to donate 90% of their wealth to charity is a sign that they understand at least some of these principles.

Deepak Chopra once spoke about greed and hoarding and their affects on the principles of circulation. By hoarding money, you effectively take it out of circulation. With less money in circulation, the harder it becomes to attract new money. So as it turns out the greedy become self defeating in the long run. I think that we are now fast approaching the "long run" and hopefully are on the verge of witnessing the implosion of greed in upon itself.

One can only "Hope."

If I may offer my thoughts on this,
I believe the puppet states are 'wherever they need to be' at any given time during the advancement of the agenda.
The puppets are watched, approached, questioned, voted on, approved or abandoned.
If the puppet is approved, they are then treated, and baited, no doubt contaminated and "something dirty or blackmailable" put into their lives, they are instructed and groomed and taken into the fold.
They have "BECOME" the new tool.
They benefit directly, for their services and results provided, and like any used tool, they are replaced, upgraded or in some cases discarded.
The internationals, the private owners of the world, have a never ending supply.