Neanderthals had feelings too, say York researchers

Neanderthals had feelings too, say York researchers

www.york.ac.uk...

Pioneering new research by archaeologists at the University of York suggests that Neanderthals belied their primitive reputation and had a deep seated sense of compassion.

A team from the University’s Department of Archaeology took on the ‘unique challenge’ of charting the development of compassion in early humans.

The archaeologists studied archaeological evidence and used this to propose a four stage model for the development of human compassion. It begins six million years ago when the common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees experienced the first awakenings of an empathy for others and motivation to ‘help’ them, perhaps with a gesture of comfort or moving a branch to allow them to pass.

The second stage from 1.8 million years ago sees compassion in Homo erectus beginning to be regulated as an emotion integrated with rational thought. Care of sick individuals represented an extensive compassionate investment while the emergence of special treatment of the dead suggested grief at the loss of a loved one and a desire to soothe others feelings.

In Europe between around 500,000 and 40,000 years ago, early humans such as Homo heidelbergensis and Neanderthals developed deep-seated commitments to the welfare of others illustrated by a long adolescence and a dependence on hunting together. There is also archaeological evidence of the routine care of the injured or infirm over extended periods. These include the remains of a child with a congenital brain abnormality who was not abandoned but lived until five or six years old and those of a Neanderthal with a withered arm, deformed feet and blindness in one eye who must have been cared for, perhaps for as long as twenty years.

In modern humans starting 120,000 years ago, compassion was extended to strangers, animals, objects and abstract concepts.

I am truly fascinated by this study. The evidence for Neanderthals caring for infirm members within social/familial groups was discovered some years ago, but this is the first study to actually map a model for the development of compassion across the human evolution.

The University is running a series of lectures to compliment this study, they are free, if you are in this neck of the woods… The first one is...

Neanderthals in love: What can archaeology tell us about the feelings of ancient humans?

Tuesday 19 October 2010, 6.30PM

Speaker: Dr Penny Spikins, Department of Archaeology

We know a certain amount about the biology of ancient humans, but their feelings, emotions and what motivated their daily lives can be shrouded in mystery. Typically 'human' emotions such as compassion, a desire for fairness, spite or remorse appear to divide us from other animals yet must have appeared at some time in our evolutionary past. By looking at the expression of such 'human' emotions in our nearest primate relatives and considering the archaeological evidence for behaviours such as acts of compassion we can begin to suggest when and how our unique feelings evolved. Did Neanderthals fall in love? and if they did was it like our own feelings or to misquote from Star Trek would a better description be 'Its love, Jim, but not as we know it'.

www.york.ac.uk...

Back to work…

after watching 'what the bleep do we know' I was under the impression that emotions are 'made' by chemical compounds released by the brain and spread throughout the body...so it seems perfectly logical that Neanderthals would have a similar if not the same set of compounds with which to 'feel' with.

-B.M

reply to post by B.Morrison


It's a bit more complex than that. Just having the brain produce certain neurotransmitters is not enough, the structure matters as well. Certain pathways must exist, as well as specific receptor sites in specific parts of the brain. Then there's the whole other problem as to the role consciousness plays in emotion, which then leads to the big question of what causes consciousness.

Originally posted by B.Morrison
after watching 'what the bleep do we know' I was under the impression that emotions are 'made' by chemical compounds released by the brain and spread throughout the body...so it seems perfectly logical that Neanderthals would have a similar if not the same set of compounds with which to 'feel' with.

-B.M

edit on 6/10/10 by B.Morrison because: (no reason given)

Emotions are not created by chemical compounds. Emotions are activated by chemical compounds. There are systems in the brain, seemingly designed by some intelligent biological computer, that are activated by these chemicals... These chemicals are also known as neurotransmitters. I say designed by an intelligent biological computer and not by random mutations, because I have experienced the activation of all these systems to their fullest extent through various self-experiments, and let me tell you they are far too amazing to be random. That's such a huge understatement it's not even funny. Insanely amazing would be a wee bit closer, but still nowhere near the word the phrase I'm looking for.

People say humans are idiots, yet they do not realize how much work the human mind has to accomplish by processing the environment. The human mind is constnatly shading textures, applying color to trillions of atoms, juding distance, 3d processing, seeing sound on a subconscious level, feeling energy and seeing energy subconsciously, calculating the correct social move to make, all these biological processes (heart, organs etc..), various geometric enhancements to vision subconsciously, imagining possibilities subconsciously, hallucinating areas of the environment to make for a cleaner and more realistic mental picture (interestingly and possibly to avoid suspiscion on our part, that we are not real).

reply to post by sliceNodice


whoa whoa whoa, you just gave me a really crazy thought,

what if, every way to perceive 'outside' of the mind, is accounted for either by earth creatures or otherwise.

Now imagine most of these perceptions were accounted for before humans came along,

now back to intelligent design,
lets completely disregard who for the purposes of this theory, and just accept there was one.

What if our 'human' perception of 'reality' limited by the processing systems of our brains, the organs we sense with, and the 'common' way the mind & subconscious mind are both understood & used by man.....

....what if all that was designed specifically in that configuration, for a specific reason or purpose.

Imagine then the possibility of these two outcomes -

we have been deliberately 'limited' by some outside creator/force which in turn makes us easier to control by more advanced beings...

Or

the creator looked around the universe and all its creatures, and realized every single 'perception' was flawed in one way or another, upon making this realization, the creator then took the 'best' of what was on offer and combined it to make the 'human' reality.

Somehow, considering that birds have beautiful ultra violet patterns that we are missing out on, and sharks literally have a 6th sense, I think we're far from the most 'aware' of creatures.

Thanks to both of the posters above who addressed my understanding of emotions/compounds,
its nice to learn new things

-B.M

Originally posted by B.Morrison
after watching 'what the bleep do we know' I was under the impression that emotions are 'made' by chemical compounds released by the brain and spread throughout the body...so it seems perfectly logical that Neanderthals would have a similar if not the same set of compounds with which to 'feel' with.

That would also, apart from for the other reasons pointed out, only apply to if we had been created, and, we certainly weren't. To that extent anyway.

Originally posted by sliceNodice
People say humans are idiots, yet they do not realize how much work the human mind has to accomplish by processing the environment. The human mind is constnatly shading textures, applying color to trillions of atoms, juding distance, 3d processing, seeing sound on a subconscious level, feeling energy and seeing energy subconsciously, calculating the correct social move to make, all these biological processes (heart, organs etc..), various geometric enhancements to vision subconsciously, imagining possibilities subconsciously, hallucinating areas of the environment to make for a cleaner and more realistic mental picture (interestingly and possibly to avoid suspiscion on our part, that we are not real).

What never ceases to amaze me, is that we essentially have three brains layered on top of each other. The way in which those three brains interact with each other is completely and complexely unique, encompassing factors that were predisposed perhaps even before the universe itself.

It is quite breathtaking.

#, just realised how much of an understatement that really is. Everybody say #!

(I swear only in the knowledge that I will be automatically edited...so use your imagination and apply what suits you)

reply to post by B.Morrison


I have been reading about vision of late, which has made me radically address aspects of my diet incidently, but that's another story. To cut a long story short...and this is where is gets interesting.

During the Pre-Cambrian period something really kicked off, evolutionary wise. It is guessed that it was most likely an environmental change, but that is about as much as anyone can hazard. Charles Darwin saw it as the only defining argument against his theory of evolution and devoted a whole chapter to it in one of his books, I don't remember which (though probably the one I mentioned, sensibly thinking). It was during this time that eyes were developed, and again this is what is truly amazing, or it was for me, is that from the start creatures from which we ascend, had four colour vision, we have, or at least the majority of us, now only have three colour vision, in between we probably went down to two, depending on geographical location, and a very small minority seem to be moving back to four. Women mostly.

Just prior to, or whatever to, this epoch, there was already light, our antecedents had the basic building blocks for eyes already, the ability to process betacarotenes into retinal, that made it move towards the light. Judging by cave paintings showing the outline of hands with missing fingers, our branch of life mastered it's fear of fire quite suddenly and then had to overcome the draw of the flame. It is in our DNA. Go towards the light. The bringing of those cells responsible for light activation forward to the point of locomotion happened in an astonishingly short period of time, as far as I can tell, I am no expert. Something happened that made that necessary. No one seems to know what.

So back to compassion...

This study indicates that the first signs of our caring for each other were simply things, like holding a branch as another walked past. A bit like, knowing how to treat a lady.

It was essential, seemingly, for look at how successful we have been, for us to look out for each other. To be the eyes in the back of our head.

of course they did. even cats do.

Originally posted by 19872012
of course they did. even cats do.

No they don't. Cats are slaves to their reproductive systems. All of them, from Tigers to the (semi-) domesticated moggy, the latest designer Meow machines are completely dependent upon us, and therefore sadly, belong only on Dr Moreau's island. Not natural. Nor is anything else dependent upon us. Remember that, it is essential to our survival.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


That is why men and women should be nicer to each other.

We are dependent upon each other. Doesn't it make sense to play fair and share. Our lives, and our children's lives depend upon it after all.

Good post, OP.

This is not terribly surprising, as we can easily find instances of compassion and empathy in our modern ape relatives (chimps, gorillas, orangutans).

i believe this completely, talk to any neanderthal today and they have feelings as well