obama lies :whitehouse white board and the tax cuts

here it is folks one of the biggest lies that have come from mr obama and the leftist

reply to post by neo96


You could of explained why that you think it is all a lie.

What I find humorous is the blatant racism used in this video! Jeez, even Glenn Beck uses a blackboard!
Why is it that the White House will only use a white board.

As for his attempt to make it easy to understand, what a joke. They left out huge components to what they were talking about.

Primarily the fact that government does NOT create anything. They can only take and take and take and take and take and take and take.................................

Funny how they state something like, how are they going to pay for the debt? Hmmmm, maybe not spend?

Oh well, they are just a bunch of racists at the White House any way, why have they not changed the name of the White Board or the White House?

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


salt mathews says it better than i ever could thanks for contributing

reply to post by neo96


Oh, you added the Tingles video after my initial reading.

I have been saying for months how the government lackeys have been calling for Tax Cuts for the middle class.

PROBLEM IS, they are NOT tax cuts, they are not increasing taxes.

While watching the pundits on the MSM, I want to throw a brick at them.

Thanks for the addition of Tingles.

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


feel the same way but man no matter the outrage thats a waste of a perfect good television set

yeah obama sucks. lies lies lies

reply to post by neo96


Alright, I hate to partake in this sort of post, but are you ignorant or just pretending to be?

"The Government" is not some nebulous entity that exists separate from the citizens of this nation, it is the citizens of this nation and represents our interests through voting power. They're our representatives, so they aren't taking our money, we're paying our dews to our national organization.

We pay taxes to live here. We don't have a freedom from taxes, we have an obligation to pay them.

The Government doesn't take, we give. If we don't give, we're breaking our duties as citizens and residents to our fellow citizens and residents, thus the government (as their representative) steps in.

I swear, ATS needs to provide a basic civics class

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
What I find humorous is the blatant racism used in this video! Jeez, even Glenn Beck uses a blackboard!

Why is it that the White House will only use a white board.

Idiotic comment.

As for his attempt to make it easy to understand, what a joke. They left out huge components to what they were talking about.

Not really. There is absolutely no justification for cutting our national income by $700 billion just to please people in the highest tax bracket. People making $1 million a year don't need an extra $100,000, they can live without it. In fact, our marginal tax rates would still be lower than they were under Eisenhower if the tax cut expired.

Primarily the fact that government does NOT create anything. They can only take and take and take and take and take and take and take.................................

Another idiotic comment. The Government is a representative body of the populace. They aren't supposed to create anything because a profit motive would demolish any idea of democratic rule.

Funny how they state something like, how are they going to pay for the debt? Hmmmm, maybe not spend?

Or maybe decrease expenditures while increasing income. Hell, maybe they could chalk up another 5% to the marginal tax rates of those making more than $1 million.

Oh well, they are just a bunch of racists at the White House any way, why have they not changed the name of the White Board or the White House?

Well, I could point out that this is a pointless and idiotic comment, but you're someone who believes demonstrably false things, like that between 750k-900k people showed up for Beck's rally, even though the number is probably At best a quarter of the lower end.

Unless you think that Beck's rally got as many people as Woodstock and the Million Man March combined....

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


we pay taxes to live here eh...............tell that to the 53 % of americans who dont pay any taxes whatsoever.


the government has the obligation not to rape us when it comes to taxation.....

the government doesnt take ------that is the most hilarious statement i have ever read on here..... and who gives?

LIKE I SAID over 53% of americans PAY NO TAX whatsoever.....


yeah ats does need to provide a civics class i will see you there.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

Another idiotic comment. The Government is a representative body of the populace. They aren't supposed to create anything because a profit motive would demolish any idea of democratic rule.

Really then why the gov take over of GM and the banks? oh wait, sure they didnt create them they just took them....

Profit motive huh? Youre telling the blatant take overs and catering to special interesting isnt the most GLARING examples of "profit motive" ? ..........please........

Not really. There is absolutely no justification for cutting our national income by $700 billion just to please people in the highest tax bracket. People making $1 million a year don't need an extra $100,000, they can live without it. In fact, our marginal tax rates would still be lower than they were under Eisenhower if the tax cut expired.

Except for the fact that taxing people who have NO MONEY doesnt work? Tax break for the rich? lol while you guys are busy bashing the rich, you do realize that the rich are the ones that create the jobs right? And that the people who start small businesses goals, are to GET rich? Without these people there WOULDNT BE ANY WORK....on that note, you can keep taxing them and they will keep taking their businesses elsewhere......sounds like a GREAT plan.......so what do you do? Raises taxes on everyone else to compensate! ..........only.........once again........taxing people who have NO INCOME doesnt work.......you cant squeeze water, from a rock..........

Or maybe decrease expenditures while increasing income. Hell, maybe they could chalk up another 5% to the marginal tax rates of those making more than $1 million.

Once again, America hardly produces ANYTHING anymore, thats not hard to see and any economic professor or student will tell you that, our production has been NILL compared to what we were in the past, hence a big reason why we are in this position and CHINA, who produces MASSIVE goods, is in their position of rising power......
2. There we go again, taxing the rich even more...just because they have the money........this line of thinking is so clearly filled with pitfalls i dont understand how people can continue to think its a valid solution.....

750k-900k people showed up for Beck's rally, even though the number is probably At best a quarter of the lower end.

Ahh so now youre attacking the OP on a completely different topic to validate your own arguments.......in very poor taste, and has NOTHING to do with the thread........

Also, doesnt prove any of your points what so ever............

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

we pay taxes to live here eh...............tell that to the 53 % of americans who dont pay any taxes whatsoever.

I keep hearing this over and over and over, but I've never seen a shred of evidence to support the claim.

the government has the obligation not to rape us when it comes to taxation.....

We aren't 'raped' with taxes right now. We're under one of the lowest tax rates in history. And again, why shouldn't people making over $1 million give more than the people making under $50,000? Those who are prosperous aren't entirely so due to their own effort. They may have been born into wealth, they may have gotten lucky with business, and in almost all cases of multi-millionaires, they had a distinct advantage practicing business in America.

the government doesnt take ------that is the most hilarious statement i have ever read on here..... and who gives?

I do. When I pay taxes to the government I do so willingly. I understand that it provides for services and defense, though I don't think our system is ideal.

LIKE I SAID over 53% of americans PAY NO TAX whatsoever.....

Saying it until you're blue in the face doesn't make it true.

There may be about 38% of Americans that have no income tax liability, but they are still required to pay payroll tax, property, and sales tax.
source

yeah ats does need to provide a civics class i will see you there.

I'll start off by teaching principles of governance in theory from Locke, Hobbes, and Rousseau.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


you need evidence eh :

how many people who are on welfare
how many people who dont work
how many people are under employed therefore have gone into a lower tax bracket that doesnt pay any tax.
how many illegals that live in this country

hey man none of those people pay any taxes whatsoever how many millions do you think that adds up to?

we are not raped? hello federal taxes,state taxes,sales taxes,property taxes, taxes and taxes and taxes and taxes..... WE ARE!

i didnt think you could say anything more hilarious than you already have YOU PAY YOUR TAXES WILLINGLY!

the only thing your taxes pay for is government control over your life thats it .


you forget we have been in a recession friend more people are out of work than at any other time in this nations history there are more people on welfare than any other time in this nations history and there are more illegals in this country than at any other time in this nations history.....

if anything that estimate was too low.

recession man recession plus those things listed yeah there are millions of americans that DONT PAY for that right to live here as you have said....

you can argue til your blue in the face but like you said that wont make it true.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
Really then why the gov take over of GM and the banks? oh wait, sure they didnt create them they just took them....

The government didn't 'take them over', you're clearly unfamiliar with how those bailouts functioned.

Profit motive huh? Youre telling the blatant take overs and catering to special interesting isnt the most GLARING examples of "profit motive" ? ..........please........

Um...again, they weren't take overs. I didn't see the US government buying up stock in any private corporation...

And which special interest groups are providing the US government with extra money? There may be problems with individuals being lobbied, but it's not like there are private corporations getting on the House floor and saying "here, do this and we'll give you money"

Except for the fact that taxing people who have NO MONEY doesnt work?

If you make over $1 million annually you have plenty of money.

Tax break for the rich? lol while you guys are busy bashing the rich, you do realize that the rich are the ones that create the jobs right?

When was the last time a rich individual created a job? They don't do it independently. They don't say "I have an additionally $100,000 this year, I'm going to use it to create more jobs. They save the money. Why? Because it's hard enough to spend $1 million a year, let alone $100,000.

Even if they did create more jobs, you're still arguing for further concentration of wealth. Sure, we'll get more jobs, but if the rich get more and more and more to create these jobs and they're the only ones creating it, then full employment can only be reached with the majority being a serf class.

And that the people who start small businesses goals, are to GET rich?

And most small businesses take in less than $250,000 in profit....

Without these people there WOULDNT BE ANY WORK....on that note, you can keep taxing them and they will keep taking their businesses elsewhere......sounds like a GREAT plan.......

Well, they wouldn't be facing taxation. And most people keep ignoring that the majority of people making over $1 million would have been taxed up to 91% on their income in the 50s and 60s....they didn't leave then. They didn't leave when we were at the Clinton tax rate (which is where Obama wants to put things for the wealthy), they actually did better business.

so what do you do? Raises taxes on everyone else to compensate! ..........only.........once again........taxing people who have NO INCOME doesnt work.......you cant squeeze water, from a rock..........

So by your logic no taxing at all is ideal. You aren't proposing any solutions, simply showing al ack of understanding of taxation.

Once again, America hardly produces ANYTHING anymore, thats not hard to see and any economic professor or student will tell you that, our production has been NILL compared to what we were in the past, hence a big reason why we are in this position and CHINA, who produces MASSIVE goods, is in their position of rising power......

Except that we produce quite a bit. Around 13% of those employed in the USA are in manufacturing. We may not be making as much, but that's our fault for not keeping up. Japan steamrolled us with their automotive innovation.

We may never get manufacturing back, but taxation has little to do with it. And if you want to argue against government seizing business, don't use China as an example, they have what is essentially a centrally owned economy.

It's not a responsibility of government to produce better manufacturing jobs, the private sector has to create them by innovating.

2. There we go again, taxing the rich even more...just because they have the money........this line of thinking is so clearly filled with pitfalls i dont understand how people can continue to think its a valid solution.....

Um...so we should tax the rich the same regardless of the fact that they have more money? They can afford to pay higher taxes easily, so they should have a nominally higher tax rate. 40% tax on $1 million still leaves you with $600,000, which means your annual income will be 13 times the per capita income.

Ahh so now youre attacking the OP on a completely different topic to validate your own arguments.......in very poor taste, and has NOTHING to do with the thread........

Um...I'm just saying that I have a certain level of expectation from someone who blatantly disregards facts and seems to do very little fact checking.

Also, doesnt prove any of your points what so ever............

Did I ever say it does? I'm simply saying that I feel like my arguments will fall on deaf ears.

My my my....such defeatism, no wonder this country is going down the tubes. If everyone thinks like that then this country's fate is already sealed. I personaly think Obama is trying, however not hard enough. He means well except to really make a change he needs to break out the big stick and start knocking heads which he's already shown that he is unwilling to do that. return to the gold standard, break out free energy (charge only maintenance fee's and wages so that the industry is self sufficient, the bill to corporations/industry not the people), implement/release new technologies (new products) to create new markets and put people back to work in good paying jobs. Lower taxes for the people (poor and middle class not just the rich) and slim down gubberment.
Wonder what would happen then eh?

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

you need evidence eh :

how many people who are on welfare
how many people who dont work
how many people are under employed therefore have gone into a lower tax bracket that doesnt pay any tax.
how many illegals that live in this country

None of this is evidence. Evidence is raw data that supports your claims. And you would still be ignoring the fact that they still pay sales tax. 100% of the people in this country pay sales tax. You said 58% pay no taxes at all
You are wrong
QED

Provide me with actual evidence please

hey man none of those people pay any taxes whatsoever how many millions do you think that adds up to?

Sales, property, payroll. Illegals actually pay into social services through payroll tax.

we are not raped? hello federal taxes,state taxes,sales taxes,property taxes, taxes and taxes and taxes and taxes..... WE ARE!

More of the same: You say so, therefore it is. Let me see some evidence, let me see a cogent argument supported by facts and reasoning.

You simply saying something doesn't make it true.
i didnt think you could say anything more hilarious than you already have YOU PAY YOUR TAXES WILLINGLY!

the only thing your taxes pay for is government control over your life thats it .

Government doesn't simply control your life. Government has one roll: to protect.
If I have a problem with an employer discriminating against me for my race, who do I go to? The government.
If a business is attempting to silence me for pointing out their employment practices, who do I go to? The government.

How is the government controlling your life?
You can walk into a Wal-Mart and buy a box of guns after a reasonable 3 day waiting period for background check and cool-off
You can walk into a gun show and do the same without a check.

you forget we have been in a recession friend more people are out of work than at any other time in this nations history there are more people on welfare than any other time in this nations history and there are more illegals in this country than at any other time in this nations history.....

So? What does this do to prove your point?

if anything that estimate was too low.

At least you're admitting it's an estimate. Now provide some evidence. I provided counter evidence that you ignored

recession man recession plus those things listed yeah there are millions of americans that DONT PAY for that right to live here as you have said....

Again, provide evidence to support it. Numbers.

you can argue til your blue in the face but like you said that wont make it true.

I provided some evidence that you were wrong, but you have yet to provide a single piece of evidence.

How about this, I'm going to leave this idiocy until tomorrow, I have to sleep because I have to wake up at an odd hour.

I'm expecting to find some evidence and a possible reasoned argument attached to it tomorrow.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


oh its a well reasoned arguement your just not willing to listen to anything other than than a piece a paper with "facts" on it.

its not me being so blind as to whats going on in this country but hey if you just want to bury your head in a website then your free to..

Alright folks, how does government create funds?

Do they take that from someone?

Or do they create that out of thin air?

Now, if you use the federal reserve as the basis of your argument, you would be right, because the left is all about something else.

Anywhoooo, the private sector funds the public sector. Period. There is NO argument for that. Unless of course you have the intelligence of the government funded education. Sorry, can ANYONE explain to me why the socialist and communist nations are going free market?

Oh, that would take actual discussion. I am thoroughly disgusted here by the way. Either attribute the other countries such as the European Union and others going to free market principles or just Shut up.

Oh, but look at the Socialist nations you tell me, well I am LOOKING. It seems they are going the other way unless of course you are watching the MSM.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


actually im extremely familiar with how those bailouts functioned and im also aware that the manner in which the government did them , was to make it hard to impossible for the businesses that they bailed out, to get out from UNDER them, just like many of the other programs the gov has implemented.......

Just look at welfare, and all these other programs, created to keep an underclass in the system......

Um...again, they weren't take overs. I didn't see the US government buying up stock in any private corporation... And which special interest groups are providing the US government with extra money? There may be problems with individuals being lobbied, but it's not like there are private corporations getting on the House floor and saying "here, do this and we'll give you money"

Youre joking right? How bout the FED and the gov being in bed with each other? How bout all the UNIONS that have the gov in their pocket and vice versa, how bout special interests groups like SEIU and numerous others that have had hidden funding in many of the bills that have been passed?

Of course they dont get the house floor and say that, that would be blatant and illegal.........

Its completely ignorant to think that just because they dont stand in front of congress and say these things that it doesnt happen...........

But on that note, it doesnt take a person looking too hard to see how blatant and brazen these special interest groups have gotten , or how much favoratism is shown to them by the administration............

No money from these people? PLEAAAAAAAAASE

If you make over $1 million annually you have plenty of money.

How do you know how much money is enough? I may be making over 1 million annually, but do you know what my overhead would be for my company? How bout paying my employees?

That statement is ignorance in its highest form......you have no idea what these people spend to keep these businesses going, and who are YOU to tell ME how much is enough? If ive worked my butt off for where i am, then i deserve what I make.....

And most small businesses take in less than $250,000 in profit....

Well then if that is true, and the profit is so hard to come by with the overhead, then that should answer your above question............however i dont see any facts and figures supplied by your statement, so ill take it as an opinion....

Even if they did create more jobs, you're still arguing for further concentration of wealth. Sure, we'll get more jobs, but if the rich get more and more and more to create these jobs and they're the only ones creating it, then full employment can only be reached with the majority being a serf class.

How is it a concentration of wealth if people are encouraged to create businesses in the private sector? thats called enterprise, thats called capitalism , it MOTIVATES people who are the low end of the latter, to create, invent, start something new, necessity is the mother of invention...........

This "gov" system that you think is so fantastic does NOT foster this idea, and is the REAL road to serfdom...learn it.....

So by your logic no taxing at all is ideal. You aren't proposing any solutions, simply showing al ack of understanding of taxation.

So because your idea of taxation has proven that it doesnt work many times over,and i dont agree with it, all the sudden I HAVE no idea how taxes work? Please........im a business owner, im very well aware how taxes work and dont work.....try a flat tax

Except that we produce quite a bit. Around 13% of those employed in the USA are in manufacturing. We may not be making as much, but that's our fault for not keeping up. Japan steamrolled us with their automotive innovation.

Just because 13 percent of the peole in the US that are employed are in manufacturing (again no proof for the figures) doesnt mean that the US is still a producing nation........all one has to do is look at our national debt compared to our national income to see that........the only thing we are producing at record rates its debt, that not even China wants anymore of......

Um...so we should tax the rich the same regardless of the fact that they have more money? They can afford to pay higher taxes easily, so they should have a nominally higher tax rate. 40% tax on $1 million still leaves you with $600,000, which means your annual income will be 13 times the per capita income.

First, you assume again, that its easy for the rich to pay higher taxes, what you fail to see is that just because they make more money, doesnt mean they arent already taxed from every angle possible or the fact that their money is funneled into different ventures, not to mention PAYING THEIR EMPLOYEES.

Your math there is telling......so because you can take almost HALF of a persons 1 million a year because they are rich, you should? really.........so i should take the money that I work hard for and give it to people who WONT work , to fund more governement programs that encourage people to be destitute and lazy?

so because its 13 times the per capita income thats ok?

Dont you think if i make 1million dollars a year and you tax me so high that i cant pay my employees, that you are HURTING the working class?........

Again your logic on taxing the rich is flawed and unsustainable........the problem is , you arent the only one with this view

With this logic i could say, if you were in college and you were a 4.0 student, it would be ok for you , since you did all the work, you study day in and day out, you finish assignments when they are due or before hand and really work hard, for all the people in your grade point average, to share 40 % of your GPA(since youre doing better than others) with people in your class who couldnt make it to class that often, or chose not to do their work.........so that they could have passing grades.........dropping your GPA average down to one that was more "acceptable" to the people in the class........you know..........closer to average.........would that be ok with you?

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
[

With this logic i could say, if you were in college and you were a 4.0 student, it would be ok for you , since you did all the work, you study day in and day out, you finish assignments when they are due or before hand and really work hard, for all the people in your grade point average, to share 40 % of your GPA(since youre doing better than others) with people in your class who couldnt make it to class that often, or chose not to do their work.........so that they could have passing grades.........dropping your GPA average down to one that was more "acceptable" to the people in the class........you know..........closer to average.........would that be ok with you?

that was a brilliant way to put that and it will still fall on deaf ears....

Sorry, I was using the race card earlier instead of facts.

So, I will be using facts for now on.

Tell me folks, when did the government create jobs? Without first taking from someone else.

Oh, never.

What was I getting at again?

There is a very great difference between paying no "income tax" and "paying no tax"

Please show me the people that pay "no tax"

Even if I payed no income tax, I still pay taxes...as in sales tax, property tax, the numerous taxes attached to my phone bills, the taxes attached to every gallon of gas purchased, and on and on.......as a matter of fact I can not think of many transaction that do not involve some form of taxation.

If 53% of the population stopped paying ANY tax at all, the America that we know would fail very quickly.

The wealthiest 5% may pay more "income tax" but to say that they pay more "taxes" is incorrect.