To anyone Islamic, or of any other religion...

Originally posted by Raphael_UO
Tell me what the Qur'an has told of the conception of Jesus.
Of the Spirit Gabriel, Mary, and the "Spirit of God".

As I understand the verses:-

He was the son of Mary

Created in her by a Word of Allah ("Be!"). Similiar to how Adam was created.

Allah gave Jesus a spirit. The spirit is something Allah gives to everyone. Likened to the creation of a "soul."

The Spirit or Angel Gabriel conveyed the news to Mary (appearing as a man). Gabriel also "supported" Jesus so that he could speak as a child.

Originally posted by mithras

Allah gave Jesus a spirit. The spirit is something Allah gives to everyone. Likened to the creation of a "soul."

Tell me of this "soul". How was it different than the "soul" that was given to Adam? Or was it different?

Originally posted by Raphael_UO

Originally posted by mithras

Allah gave Jesus a spirit. The spirit is something Allah gives to everyone. Likened to the creation of a "soul."

Tell me of this "soul". How was it different than the "soul" that was given to Adam? Or was it different?

There's no definition of the soul as far as I know, let's say it that which makes us above the animals. Or if animals have souls they have a different "type" of soul.

I don't know the Qur'an off by heart but as far as I know there's no reason to indicate Adam, Jesus or any other human was given a different "type" of spirit / soul.

Jesus was given knowledge (I believe) by Gabriel whilst in the womb. Gabriel being the Angel / Spirit that sends Prophets the Truth.

Originally posted by mithras
There's no definition of the soul as far as I know, let's say it that which makes us above the animals. Or if animals have souls they have a different "type" of soul.

I don't know the Qur'an off by heart but as far as I know there's no reason to indicate Adam, Jesus or any other human was given a different "type" of spirit / soul.

Jesus was given knowledge (I believe) by Gabriel whilst in the womb. Gabriel being the Angel / Spirit that sends Prophets the Truth.

Read this link and search for the Truth as it is taught by the Qur'an. I fear I read those words and only see what I want to see without the understanding of one that follows Islam. I need help to understand.

But first I need to sleep.
I thank you for the understanding you have taught me tonight.
We will continue this soon if you desire.

Originally posted by Raphael_UO
Read this link and search for the Truth as it is taught by the Qur'an. I fear I read those words and only see what I want to see without the understanding of one that follows Islam. I need help to understand.

But first I need to sleep.
I thank you for the understanding you have taught me tonight.
We will continue this soon if you desire.

I'll find and paste you the verses, and explain them; must go away from computer now.

"Jesus never actually says "Hey, dude! I'm the Son Of God!"

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Originally posted by mithras
This is no more disappointing to see than all the other times you've accused me of something when you've misunderstood,

Is this an outright lie? or do you entirely not understand that what you have stated here is untrue? I have not accused you of anything yet. I'll throw a flag up when I do so that you know and there will not be any further instances of your false accusations, ok?

I hope that you are not indicative of Christians likewise. You think because a Muslim says one thing (fairly in reply) that appears not to suit you, another Muslim has to counter that in order for the doctrine to be accepted. You need to seriously consider yourself there.

No, actually, you need to stop accusing me of things, ok? You have no idea what I think. And don't get presumptive that you can say you do know. Here is what I think:

That a person who cries "I must have logic to accept" offers up the following crock of illogical blatherings:

You could mention about Palestinians killing themselves because they see it as defending their land, but even in these "free" Western societies social suicide is very high (check Sweden, a very free society) partly because of the many ruined relationships that come with freedom. The same freedom of thought that brought up Darwinism so we had an excuse to drag Africans to use as slaves (they're just an advanced monkey eh) or tame the Native American savages. Yeah "freedom" of thought is "advancement," apparently.

speaks against themselves.

If freedom brings ill choices on the part of the individual, so be it. It seems both from the observations of the liturgically ruled oppressive theocracies that abide by the Islamic faith, as well as your statements above hypocritically pounded out on your computer from your obvious position of freedom, that there is a pervasive belief that the true evil is to allow a person freedom of choice...something that God saw fit to allow us. And your statements against a theory (Darwinism), that you apparently don't accept, are disgusting and hateful - not to mention unfounded. If you can't accept a theory, shake the dirt from your shoes and move on, but this illogical diatribe leads to no good.

Did you even read what Leveller said about Islam. He uses dictatorships' behaviours to define Islam, and picks out problems with the Eastern world which don't run things Islamicly. Is it not fair I then pick out problems with the West? Or does that hurt you to realise the West has faults just as much as the East?

So you ignore what Leveller said and pick on my reply, okay if you wish, no problems with me because I can hold my own; as I implied I'm not so surprised about that now - maybe you can U2U me another message to start my own thread about Islam when I was talking on-topic about Jesus here.

Yes, you are correct, NO, I don't even care what Leveller said to you. I am speaking to you about YOUR statements. Is this yet another facet of the Muslim profile that there must be fairness in all situations? Fairness is never required. Justice is. I need not review and accept or deny Leveller's statements in order to comment on yours - which I have done now.

And I am finished, because I deem this unhealthy - the dirt is being shaken off as we speak.

[edit on 7-5-2004 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Valhall
That a person who cries "I must have logic to accept" offers up the following crock of illogical blatherings:

You could mention about Palestinians killing themselves because they see it as defending their land, but even in these "free" Western societies social suicide is very high (check Sweden, a very free society) partly because of the many ruined relationships that come with freedom. The same freedom of thought that brought up Darwinism so we had an excuse to drag Africans to use as slaves (they're just an advanced monkey eh) or tame the Native American savages. Yeah "freedom" of thought is "advancement," apparently.

speaks against themselves.

A person who says "I must have logic to accept." does err.
One needs only love to accept. Indeed all that needs to be accepted is "God is. Love God."

On the other hand, one does need logic to explain why this is all that is needed when asked by a child "Why?"

These things you mention are not illogical, they are without understanding.

They are all simply doubt. The lack of the acceptance of the truth.

When you say they speak against themselves, this is not what you understand, this is how you describe your understanding.

I describe this same understanding as "speaks against humility."

Indeed, man killing man, that is to say one child of God killing another child of God, is so completely foreign-- quite simply words cannot describe what this means in the Light of Humility.

The Old testament describes how important it is. This Truth is found in the 10 commandments. Exodus 20 describes sins against God and sins against man (which are also sins against God for these things are His desire).

When describing sins against man, this is the second one mentioned.

This is behind "Honor thy mother and thy father: ..."

Indeed this is such of great importance that it is put ahead of "Thou shalt not kill."

Has any child asked "Why? and been given an answer from the Truth that is there?"

This I tell you, if one does not honor thy mother and thy father one does not honor their teachings, which is to say they do not honor their understanding.

All man needs to understand is how to teach their children why "God is. Love God." is enough.

This is the truth as I was taught it.

It is no small wonder why Killing is second on this list.

Each are an affront to God, and the understanding that is brought with humility. It is no wonder I often cannot find words to describe what I feel within the very fibers of my being.

We can discuss this soon, when you desire.
I leave you with these Truths, and return to my slumber.

.

This is why I'm not religious in any way, I was raised in church but reflecting back, I was'nt saved I was strickend, the only damn thing that matters to me is if I can go out into this world and find one person and help them every day, should there be a god, should there be a allah, should there be a buddah, when I get to meet him or her or what ever this devine entity may be if it can look at me and kick me out of heaven, the afterlife, what ever the hell we see when we die ,if it's not total darkness, then I don't need to be there, also if my dog isn't there with me I'll know it's a sham, she's got more heart than 80% of the people I know that attend a church of any kind.