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posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by Valhall


In the past 1400 years has there been an identified prophet since Muhammed? If not, why? Since there is admittedly different "versions" of the Qu'ran - which according to the logic presented in these threads - instantly makes the Qu'ran corrupt - as does the different versions of the Bible making it corrupt - aren't we to a point that a prophet should have come by now to straighten stuff out again? Also, I think that with the barbarism that is occurring in the name of Islam - which is a major corruption according to the tenets outlined by you and others - would you think we are approaching the next prophet?

I appreciate you discussing this with me.


Muhammad was the last prophet. According to Islam, Qur'an is the book written by God and it has been brought down to all mankind basicaly.
There is only one version of it. It is used in the entire world. Some argue that there are many versions, but we are talking about discrepancies of only a few verses or different dialect, not the whole book. What the ultimate truth is, we will know when the Judgement Day comes. And that would also be the return of Jesus.
The final word has been delivered, the next in line is the return of Jesus, to finaly set everything straight, end all conflicts.
One should make a distinction here between the religion itself and its followers. Because men are not perfect and can be tempted by satan, they will try to corrupt the message of God and use it for their own purposes. That is the concept of free will. Of course a sufficient punishment will follow.
Which brings me to one more thing, justice and punishment.
In my understanding of it, humans are allowed to cary out individual punishments only, and only if the person is proven gulity. No human is allowed to punish nations or a group pf people, that is in the hands of God and God only. But humans tend to see themselves as a Hand of God and enforce such punishments, example: Bin Laden and his quest to punish americans, or christian inquisition in the middle ages, or Falwell's latest crusade.




posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 09:51 AM
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How can muhammed be the comforter mentioned in these verses? It clearly states, "he will abide with you forever." Muhammed is dead and hence not abiding forever. Most importantly, the context clearly shows yeshua is speaking with the discliples. All of the these discliples died before muhammed was even born. Muhammed didn't exist for another 570yrs or so after Yeshua. Context is important and one doesn't have to rely on the nicean interpretation.
Mithras, I don't know if your saying jews are offended by yeshua or whether your differentiating between yeshua and the christ part of him. Anyways, I think something needs to be clarified. Jews are offended by the Babylonian mystery religions god-man and the paganized beliefs attached to him. They are not offended by Yeshua. Judaism has the concept of two messiahs. They see yeshua as someone who didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies so they can't call him messiah. However, if yeshua comes back (as the christians say) and on that day the prophecies are fulfilled then they will declare him to be the messiah. Jews are only offended by the paganized beliefs and christians pulling verses out of context in the Tanack to support their beliefs.
My previous question was about the corruption of the bible. i'm aware of its corruptible history. However, I wanted an muslims point of view about this topic. Thanks for your replies.
To any muslim-Did yeshua have to learn that he was the messiah or was he born with this knowledge. Also, in the religion of Islam, what were the requirements that the person had to fulfill in order to be called the messiah? In other words, what did yeshua do that MADE him the messiah?

River Euphrates- Do you ever check your u2u's?



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 09:56 AM
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Just to clarify something concerning the role of Messiah for Jesus. The role of Messiah - or Meshiach - has not been fulfilled through Christ yet. This is so because of the rejection by the Jews of Christ in that role. The role fulfilled to date by the Christ is the conduit of salvation via his spilled blood. The spiritual saviour through his willing self-sacrifice. The other role is the first-fruit of the resurrection. And then the third role - in which he currently works for us, is that of mediator and High Priest before God for us. Upon his second coming, he will fulfill the role of Messiah, but it hasn't happened yet.



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by Valhall
Am I considered kafir because I reject the Islamic religion for myself? Or am I excluded from being considered kafir because I believe in the one true God via my Christian beliefs?

This point is confusing to me.


Christians and Jews ARE believers, those who believe in ONE God, lead a righteous life, who do not kill, steal, lie, are believers and are refered in the Qur'an as the People of the Book. But you are also required to consider the fact that Muhammad is indeed a prophet and has delivered a message from the same God you believe in.
In the end, it is up to God to judge if you will go to Heaven or not.
To quote the Qur'an here:

[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who believes in GOD, and believes in the Last Day, and leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 10:05 AM
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To any muslim-Did yeshua have to learn that he was the messiah or was he born with this knowledge. Also, in the religion of Islam, what were the requirements that the person had to fulfill in order to be called the messiah? In other words, what did yeshua do that MADE him the messiah?


He was very special from the very beginning, as stated in Qur'an he could speak from the crib and he knew about his mission. Mary was also aware of it. He is a Messiah because that is his path given to him by God, no other requirements are needed. He was sent down to all mankind.



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 10:08 AM
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Thank you again paperclip. Concerning the issue of Muhammed being a prophet. On a personal level, I'm not there. But as a fellow child of God, I accept that you believe this. And your belief in this doesn't cause me a bit of grief or consternation. I also accept that you believe the Christ to be different than I believe him to be. Again, I feel no compunction to change that. My commission as a Christian is to share the gospel and to live it as best I can by living according to the 10 commandments (which were also summarized in the Great Commandment via Christ). I might point out that I fall short on a daily basis and apparently the best I can do is to try to make the next day better than the day before. But I am in no way commissioned to try to convert you.

I would like to ask a pointed question though - because, depending on your answer, this will help me to erase a possible misconception.

Hypothetically speaking:

Let us say that the world was split 50/50 Muslim and Christian and pretty much had reached a state of equilibrium - i.e. no more willing conversions to either of the faiths. Would we be able to live in this status peacefully for ever? Does Islam allow for "no more conversions" and the ability to live in the world in the state I have described? And do you understand that the Christian doctrine, does, in fact, allow for this situation to exist?



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by Leveller

Look to gnostic Islam for the answer to this one as it's beliefs are quite similar.
The Trinty is God and it isn't God.

It like the Alpha and Omega - nothing and everything at the same time.

But what does this mean, to me it is a statement purely made to sound confusing? Why would I believe in something more confusing when the evidence fits (to my understanding) better with the simpler view of a single God with no parts? I'm someone who needs enough good evidence to point to a certain theory to believe it (because the Qur'an warns Muslims not to simply believe people who make things up without evidence).

I've not read up fully about "Gnostic Islam" but already it sounds not at all Islamic as I understand it.



And your statement that Muslims believe that one cannot imagine what God is, is wrong. Mainstream Islam may believe this but there were sects such as the Sufis who believed that by applying a logic philosophy, they could understand God better.

www.arches.uga.edu...


But you're assuming I think Sufis are true Muslims (generally). Some might be, try follow my line of thought:-

Assume a Muslim follows the Qur'an as fact.

The Sunni, Shia, Sufi: they all use the same Qur'an, but interpret it slightly different, and this is why we might not group them with mainstream (Sunni) Islam.

I feel the Sufis logically cannot claim to follow the Qur'an since the Qur'an clearly says that man will not grasp the concept of God. So I think that my statement stands, in that if a Muslim is one who believes in the Qur'an as fact, his made-up notions of God are just that, made-up. So long as a Sufi appreciates this and thus not believes his own made-up concept, he should be fine in his future chat with God, in my opinion.

Thing is everyone, even me, likes to wonder (has that Sufi-quality). Maybe I've thought: God is physics all around, or present everywhere like the concept of "aether" is to light, or some brain sitting at the centre of the Universe; but the Qur'an essentially says if you think He is something, then He is not that.



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by Valhall

Hypothetically speaking:

Let us say that the world was split 50/50 Muslim and Christian and pretty much had reached a state of equilibrium - i.e. no more willing conversions to either of the faiths. Would we be able to live in this status peacefully for ever? Does Islam allow for "no more conversions" and the ability to live in the world in the state I have described? And do you understand that the Christian doctrine, does, in fact, allow for this situation to exist?



In Islam, a forceful conversion is forbidden, people are allowed to choose if they want it or not. Of course, that didnt stop some people to try it anyway, in the past, both Islam and Christianity were spread in the world by force.

So, to answer your questions, from the islamic point of view such world is very much possible. And yes, I am aware that it is possible from the christian perspective too, given the high enough level of tolerance from both sides, of course.



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by Valhall
mithras, please don't answer me with this preconceived notion - it does not lead us to discussion, or to me learning. I will visit the site you gave me (as I have visited others) - but I don't like to go to sites I just "find" because then I don't know if I'm reading a "sanctioned" site or not - hope that makes sense.

I have no desire to find contradictions or confusions.

I didn't say that you would do that, hence the "if you like," in fact I thought you wouldn't because of dislike of it being done to you ("do unto those..." etc.). I was actually presenting myself as someone who would accept it (no problems, in fact prefer it because it means you're interested!), if you chose to. It's a bit unfair to say I have preconceptions about you when you misunderstood me, too?

That site seems quite "official" to me, friendly too:- Check the "Ask about Islam" section, they're polite to even the rudest of questions.

Please do find contradictions or confusions! I ask you to



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 10:31 AM
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Yes, I am reading the site as we speak and find it most helpful.

Concerning contradictions or confusions, the only things that I would feel worthy to bring up for discussion would be if I found things that led to confusion or concern about the interaction of varying beliefs...i.e. religious tolerance or lack thereof. This is my primary goal in learning of your faith, is to know for myself, that inherent to that faith is an acceptance of me as a fellow child of God and that there is no requirement for me to change my belief system in order for us to co-exist as next door neighbors.
Those would also be the contradictions/concerns that I would welcome from you - because if there is a Christian teaching that you understand to disallow cohabitation between Christians and Muslims, I do not know of it and would prompty seek out whatever means to help resolve the confusion.



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 11:08 AM
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Hello again,


Originally posted by KSoze
How can muhammed be the comforter mentioned in these verses? It clearly states, "he will abide with you forever." Muhammed is dead and hence not abiding forever.

You said yourself you believed, as I do, that it was a corrupted text. One word might be missing or changed. How about add one "his message will abide with you..., or interpret "he" as in the "memory of him" (I used the former way in my other post). There's figurative talk in much of the Bible, and Qur'an.

Again, like I stated I see lots of evidence to indicate change in the Bible, so mine is only a theory just as the Trinity requires a leap of interpretation too?



Most importantly, the context clearly shows yeshua is speaking with the discliples. All of the these discliples died before muhammed was even born. Muhammed didn't exist for another 570yrs or so after Yeshua. Context is important and one doesn't have to rely on the nicean interpretation.

Can you explain this further, please? They died but why would this indicate Jesus did not prophecise about Muhammad to the disciples?



Mithras, I don't know if your saying jews are offended by yeshua or whether your differentiating between yeshua and the christ part of him. Anyways, I think something needs to be clarified. Jews are offended by the Babylonian mystery religions god-man and the paganized beliefs attached to him. They are not offended by Yeshua. Judaism has the concept of two messiahs. They see yeshua as someone who didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies so they can't call him messiah. However, if yeshua comes back (as the christians say) and on that day the prophecies are fulfilled then they will declare him to be the messiah. Jews are only offended by the paganized beliefs and christians pulling verses out of context in the Tanack to support their beliefs.

Well, I don't know what's in the mind of a Jewish person. I hear that many rabbis believe that Jesus is in Hell (maybe you can back me up on that)? Also isn't it regarded as being the Jews that tried to crucify Jesus? I only concluded my statement from these points.

You also say that "the Jews will declare him to be the Messiah." Shouldn't you add that "only if the Jews believe it is really he." I say this because the same could apply with Jews declaring him the Islamic version of Messiah?:-

Muhammad prophecised many Jews and Christians won't believe it is Jesus when he returns, because Muhammad said he will return with the message of Islam (fulfilling his unfinished role). However, he said, at this point many other Christians and Jews will in fact turn to Islam, but a Great War will result.



My previous question was about the corruption of the bible. i'm aware of its corruptible history. However, I wanted an muslims point of view about this topic. Thanks for your replies.
To any muslim-Did yeshua have to learn that he was the messiah or was he born with this knowledge. Also, in the religion of Islam, what were the requirements that the person had to fulfill in order to be called the messiah? In other words, what did yeshua do that MADE him the messiah?

Muslims believe: Isa (Jesus) was a special man, in that he was created in Mary and not biologically conceived. He spoke as a baby so yes, he was born with knowledge:-

3:46 which means: "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."

Isa was created by God to be the Messiah. He wasn't chosen like other Prophets, he was made:-

3:59 which means: The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

Mithras

PS: Wanted to add because some might try to suggest we think Isa is divine because of this one verse. The belief Isa was created like Adam does not make Isa a God, to us. Muslims believe to even compare one to the other is polytheism, even saying God is a million times stronger than Isa is disbelief.


[edit on 3-7-2004 by mithras]



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 11:15 AM
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If the argument about Jews is that they dont believe that Jesus was the son of God and that he died on the cross to cover the sins of all people.

There is a movement within the jewish community called Messionic Jews, these are people that do believe in Christ. Imagine that, a Jewish faith that includes Chist as the messiah. Remember, Jesus was Jewish.



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 11:19 AM
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Wouldn't that be plain Christianity?



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 11:20 AM
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This is nothing new, popeye.

There were the "Ebionite Jews" (contemporaneous to Christ and the apostles) that also accepted Christ. They continued to observe the Jewish rituals, but also believed in the Christ the Saviour.

It is alleged in some camps that Josephus, the Jewish Hitorian, may have been an Ebionite Jew.



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by mithras

But what does this mean, to me it is a statement purely made to sound confusing? Why would I believe in something more confusing when the evidence fits (to my understanding) better with the simpler view of a single God with no parts?



The "everything and nothing" is taken from mainstream Islam (I'll grab you a link later) !!! It means that God is outside the realms of physical language. This doesn't mean that he is necessarily out of the reach of understanding though and many great Muslim philosophers have pondered on His actual being.

As for gnostic Islam not sounding like proper Islam? There seems to be an on/off relationship with the mainstream. It has been applauded and recognised by some and classed as heretical by others. But just after Muhammed's time until about the 12th century it was a thriving part of the religion; with many powerful and respected Imams promoting it's tenets.
This was the time when the Islamic Empire was at it's zenith. When it's science, invention and literature was the greatest in the World.

www.rit.edu...

It seems that gnostisism is only the property of the Imams in power now though. Like the Catholic Church and it's repression of those who search for their own Truth, it is allowed only to those whom the rich and powerful see fit.

www.khomeini.com...

"Practically following such human beings who possess a lofty status and divine insight and knowledge, leads a human being to prosperity and salvation."
The strange apsect of the above is that it seems very close to mainstream Christianity in it's belief.

Is it a coincidence that once gnostisism was checked, Islamic society regressed? Who knows - I certainly believe that it has something to do with it? But it's definitely a part of the religion that I would advise you to look at.


myweb.cableone.net...



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by mithras
[Sorry if it seemed offensive, I did put "with due respect to" there; but we surely have a right to read historical texts as much as anyone, and without relying on the Nicean interpretation?

As for it originating from Muhammad; there are hadith that say some of the early Christians at the time recognised him as the one prophecised in the Gospels. In addition the Gospel of Barnabas dates way back to just after Christ which I believe relates the Muslim version better. So we believe it to be an old theory dating to Christ, and something Christ himself started.

As a Christian you must appreciate your view of Jews as misinterpreting something in their texts. Then, apply the same thinking to Muslims who believe the same of you misinterpreting your own text. So if you are offended by Muhammad remember how Jews are offended by Christ.


You say Christians think Jews are misinterpreting their texts.
You have shown that (some?) Muslims think Chirstians are misinterpreting their texts.
I am sure you will say Christians think Mulsims do not believe in the One God for they do not believe in the Trinity.
And I am sure someone says Jews think Christians and Muslims both do not follow their God for this reason or that reason.

This is not what I was taught, and I see the Truth of what I was taught in the teachings of the Qur'an.

[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who believes in GOD, and believes in the Last Day, and leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

How can this be if Jews do not believe as Christians who do not believe as Muslims who do as Jews who do not believe as Muslims who do not believe as Christians who do not believe as Jews who do not... (repeat until your breath is gone) ...?

If I am wrong please forgive my ignorance, but does not the Qur'an say Jews, Christians and Muslims are all people of the Book?

How can this be if the Torah is not the Bible which is not the Qur'an which is not the Torah, which is not the Qur'an, which is not the Bible, which is not the Torah, which is not the... (repeat until your breath is gone) ...?

My belief is that Bible and the Torah, which is included in my bible, are God's answer to two basic questions. Where did I come from? Why am I here? The simplest answers are: From God, to love God.

The answers lead to more questions: How did you do that? How do I do that?

Those answers lead to more questions which lead to more answers which lead to more questions which lead to... (repeat until you are out of breath)

To use another analogy,

If God were a number, what number would he be?
Question: 1? Answer: that and more.
1 + 1? That and more.
1 + 1 + 1? That and more.
1 + 1 + 1 + all numbers to infinity? That and more.
Infinity + Infinity? That and more.
Infinity + Infinity + Infinity + Infinity +... (repeat until you are out of breath) ...? That and more.
Such is the Truth of God.


The Torah is what the Jews understand of the Truth of God.
The Bible is what the Christians understand of the Truth of God.
The Qur'an is what the Muslim understand of the Truth of God.

Are any of these things a complete understanding? Of course not, for how can any man completely understand that which is God.

But if Jews do not believe how I believe how do I know the Torah is the Truth? Simply put, when you read what is written with an open mind in search of understanding you will see the Truth if it is there.

One cannot look at the Torah and say "This is not how I understand it, so it must be like this or like that."

Of course, corruptions occur. Thus it is with anything which is translated. But, I have already talked about how to recognize corruption, through humility.


Originally posted by Raphael_UO
Simply put the understanding of humility is the basis for all other beliefs. Similar to what you had stated, humility is the giving of yourself completely to God and his teachings. It is through humility one learns to detect "corrupt" translations, for the work of Satan does not reflect total commitment to God.

To give you an understanding I shall quote for you a passage from Scripture:


Mark 12:28-34
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.


Completely giving of your love to God and your fellow man is the definition of humility. If I knew nothing else about this verse, that would be enough for me to know that the words written were the words of God and not of Satan.


Understand humility and you will understand all a man can possibly understand. As I said above Completely giving yourself to God and your fellow man is the definition of humility. It is complete Love.

Man could then ask "So, then is God love?" The answer would be: "That and more."




I look forward to you explaining them, to me at least, they don't seem out of context. I have an open mind about this, I can't understand why you might suspect I don't; afterall I'm here willing to discuss and defend (with reason) my view. The "prophecy of Muhammad" idea not something I plucked out of the air, but considered it as a most possible interpretation, of the passages, which could be partially or wholly wrong. Naturally one can only look at the passages in context with supporting historical documents made at the time of Jesus, anything later is an interpretation.


It is because you interpret the Christian understanding of the Truth to fit your understanding of the Truth that I asked you to try to understand with an open mind.

One who has an open mind, does not try to understand things as they see it, they try to understand as someone else sees it.

Indeed, an open mind is not saying "you are wrong" it is asking "Are you right?"


So why didn't Jesus use the same name "God"for all three?


Why does man not use the same name "Hand" for all three?
Because the palm is not the fingers which is not the thumb which is not the palm which is not the thumb which is not the fingers which is not the palm which is not the... (repeat until you are out of breath) ...?

If I were asked "Is Allah God?" I would answer "Yes, that and more."



Mark 10:18 Matt 19:17 Luke 18:19 all agree (strong evidence) that:-

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

This interferes with the Nicean concept that God is the combination of all three, here Jesus is saying that only God is good. If Jesus were part of God (as with your analogy) then surely he wouldn't say this?


There is no conflict. The Son was made man and lived his life as a man should. How should a man live his life? Loving God, and his fellow man. Living a life of humility. Even though The Son is God his answer was that of a man (which He was). An answer of humility. Jesus did not say "I am Good" because judgement is for God and not man (which He was).

Jesus is God. Jesus was man. Man is not God.

Where did I come from?
Why am I here?

From God.
To Love God.

How did you do that?
How do I do that?

In essence, Jesus was the answer to man's question, "How do I do that?" God replied, "Let Me show you."

.



[edit on 3-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]



[edit on 3-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Raphael_UO

Originally posted by mithras
There is no similarity of concepts because in the

Trinity the three are believed to be one. Since you brought that pair of three names up, and with due respect to Christians, my belief is that the idea of the Holy Ghost in Christianity is because of (perhaps deliberate) misinterpretation of Jesus' prophecy of Muhammad recorded in John's (distorted) Gospel. Hopefully these aren't out of context as they stand so try reading these fully, with an open mind (to accomodate distortion):-


I am at a loss for words.


[edit on 3-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]

[edit on 3-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]




Although it has been argued that Muhammad (pbuh) was mentioned in the Gospel of John......there is still much debate about this from both sides. I do feel that it is definitely not the " Holy Spirit " or "Miracle of Pentacost" as some would like to say......

Well anyways here is an argument that takes the side that Muhammad (pbuh) was indeed mentioned in the NT..... I will leave you , independent....to conclude....in the manner deemed fit.....


PROPHET MUHAMMAD IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

BY ARAMAIC BIBLE SOCIETY

www.aramaic.org...


-----River
Peace



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall
Right, and a lot of what your religion (as stated by you and River) believes about the Christ appears unfounded to me as well.

You and River both seem to be very well founded in your religion and articulate the teachings well. What I was asking was if it would be possible to direct that gift toward expounding the doctrine of your religion, versus wasting it on discussing a religion that you have admittedly rejected for yourself.

I am not saying that you have no right to believe as your religion has taught you concerning Jesus, but what I am saying is that he hasn't the doctrinal importance in your religion that would warrant focusing a discussion that could help others learn more about the tenents of the Islamic religion.

I hope you are understanding my point. Because I'm actually trying to get to where I learn more about your religion.



According to the Holy Qur'an

-Jesus Christ is the " Spirit of G-d". This is true because G-d placed his very own "Spirit" in Jesus Christ via an Angel [ that visited Mary]. Islam believes that Jesus Christ (pbuh) was the 2nd Adam or " Last Adam" because he had many of Adam's attributes.....except Jesus Christ was a perfected "Adam" and was sinless. Please note that G-d blew his Spirit directly into Adam. This Spirit is embodied in Jesus Christ (pbuh) as well.

-Jesus Christ is the " Word of G-d"/"logos". According to the Qur'an G-d spoke to Moses (pbuh) directly....and to Muhammad (pbuh) via archAngel intermediary Gabriel. However, G-d channeled his "Word" directly through Jesus Christ (pbuh) . The Qur'an also states that one of the miracles of Jesus was that he spoke from the cradle. The pristine Revelation that was channeled via Jesus Christ is known as " Holy Injeel" in Islam.

--The Qur'an gives other titles to Jesus Christ (pbuh). He is called " Sign", " Son of Mary", "Messiah", "Soul of G-d" and "Sign of the Hour"

According to Hadith

---Jesus Christ will return as the "Messiah" /"Anointed One" in Islam. He will prevent war and spread peace. Together with Imam Mahdi he will defeat the evil Tyrant ( Dajjal)/ Anti-Christ who will emerge from Afghanistan. The Dajjal will finally gather 70,000 soldiers from Isfahan. Jesus Christ will prevent the barbaric tribes of Gog and Magog from causing havoc on Earth . He will establish the "Kingdom of Heaven on Earth" and will reestablish "imaan islaam" or "Pure Islam"


-----River

P.S: Jesus Christ (pbuh) is quite important , especially in terms of eschatology for Muhammad (pbuh) designated him as his successor.



[edit on 3-7-2004 by River Euphrates]

[edit on 3-7-2004 by River Euphrates]



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by River Euphrates

According to the Holy Qur'an

-Jesus Christ is the " Spirit of G-d". This is true because G-d placed his very own "Spirit" in Jesus Christ via an Angel [ that visited Mary]. Islam believes that Jesus Christ (pbuh) was the 2nd Adam or " Last Adam" because he had many of Adam's attributes.....except Jesus Christ was a perfected "Adam" and was sinless. Please note that G-d blew his Spirit directly into Adam. This Spirit is embodied in Jesus Christ (pbuh) as well.

-----River



Dear River...do you understand that you have answered many of the questions that have been being asked by others to Christians about the Trinity here? That the trinity should have a small t to ensure that people outside the christian religion should understand that no one has been relegated to the position of God the Father would probably help. It would also help if a lot of Christians could understand the divine nature of Christ as well as you do! pffft lol Simply put, the trinity is stating what you have just stated, that a portion of the "spirit of God" was embodied in Christ himself, and authority was passed to him during his mission. And the Holy Ghost is a similar portion of the "spirit of God" sent down to guide us, comfort us, and assist us against the Great Deceiver in the absence of the Christ. In no manner are either Christ or the Holy Spirit to be placed at the level of the Creator. They are of Him. He is above all...all is from Him - including Christ and the God-spirit that dwelt within him.

Thank you very much for sharing with me!



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by River Euphrates

According to the Holy Qur'an

-Jesus Christ is the " Spirit of G-d". This is true because G-d placed his very own "Spirit" in Jesus Christ via an Angel [ that visited Mary]. Islam believes that Jesus Christ (pbuh) was the 2nd Adam or " Last Adam" because he had many of Adam's attributes.....except Jesus Christ was a perfected "Adam" and was sinless. Please note that G-d blew his Spirit directly into Adam. This Spirit is embodied in Jesus Christ (pbuh) as well.

-----River



Dear River...do you understand that you have answered many of the questions that have been being asked by others to Christians about the Trinity here? That the trinity should have a small t to ensure that people outside the christian religion should understand that no one has been relegated to the position of God the Father would probably help. It would also help if a lot of Christians could understand the divine nature of Christ as well as you do! pffft lol Simply put, the trinity is stating what you have just stated, that a portion of the "spirit of God" was embodied in Christ himself, and authority was passed to him during his mission. And the Holy Ghost is a similar portion of the "spirit of God" sent down to guide us, comfort us, and assist us against the Great Deceiver in the absence of the Christ. In no manner are either Christ or the Holy Spirit to be placed at the level of the Creator. They are of Him. He is above all...all is from Him - including Christ and the God-spirit that dwelt within him.

Thank you very much for sharing with me!



Thank you . I'm glad to hear that .



---River





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