Some masonic secrets for the masses

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


You throw the "symbolic" word around a bunch in your responses. I'm curious, since all symbolism serves some purpose, what is the purpose of the Masonic Rites and Oaths "symbolic" oaths? If they are not relevant, then why do they exist?

Originally posted by JudgedCover
I'm curious, since all symbolism serves some purpose, what is the purpose of the Masonic Rites and Oaths "symbolic" oaths? If they are not relevant, then why do they exist?

The Degrees are there to impart moral lessons through their symbology.

The oaths, while the penalties are symbolic in nature, are there to remind you that you have given your word as a man and that it should be inviolate. If you break your word you only have your own conscience to contend with.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by JudgedCover
I'm curious, since all symbolism serves some purpose, what is the purpose of the Masonic Rites and Oaths "symbolic" oaths? If they are not relevant, then why do they exist?

The Degrees are there to impart moral lessons through their symbology.

The oaths, while the penalties are symbolic in nature, are there to remind you that you have given your word as a man and that it should be inviolate. If you break your word you only have your own conscience to contend with.

So you are saying that Masons need the imaginary threat of tortuous death to have integrity?

Originally posted by JudgedCover
So you are saying that Masons need the imaginary threat of tortuous death to have integrity?

No, it is just a reminder, and any person can have the same intergrity if they remind themselves of the importance.

reply to post by JudgedCover


If you can find the penalty on the fist degree ,look for the word "thereof " to clarify why things are like they are. It's one of those things I cannot outright say. It is very important to the ritual of the degree

Originally posted by rebeldog
reply to post by network dude

 

when did I say I have never been "in" the craft??? see what I mean..

you are a gullible rube.. probably with an IQ pushing 80...

you so quickly assumed I have no knowledge of masonry from what???

how so quickly you "knew" i only speak as someone from the outside.. boy you are QUITE THE DETECTIVE!!!!

sorry to insult detectives, some have 2 braain cells.

Why all the insults? The guy has come on here to openly highlight misconceptions about the organisation, and I for one found it interesting and educational.

Originally posted by JudgedCover

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by JudgedCover
I'm curious, since all symbolism serves some purpose, what is the purpose of the Masonic Rites and Oaths "symbolic" oaths? If they are not relevant, then why do they exist?

The Degrees are there to impart moral lessons through their symbology.

The oaths, while the penalties are symbolic in nature, are there to remind you that you have given your word as a man and that it should be inviolate. If you break your word you only have your own conscience to contend with.

So you are saying that Masons need the imaginary threat of tortuous death to have integrity?

Yes. Simply put. Same as when you're a kid and you use that phrase "cross my heart hope to die, stick a needle in my eye"..... or maybe thats was just me and friends as kids

reply to post by rebeldog


I'm always amused when I hear the term "low-level" or "low-degree" or "low" anything Mason. It immediately tells me the poster has NO idea how the structure of Masonry works but is very willing to listen to the Bible-thumping "holier-than-thou's" who make such ludicrous claims.

(YAWN) Here we go again...

Masonic conspiracies are claimed to originate with the Founding Fathers, and there ability to 'see' through the veil of Modern Society and prey upon the Animalistic Nature of those who walk in the walls of establishment.

This Carnal approach is really nothing more than an "All Seeing Eye", for certain. Whereas, they learn of circumstance, then say something about it...

I thought Feemasons don't tell vital information to people that have "loose lips" yet the ones telling us that Freemasonry isn't bad are the ones tied with the association. Does that mean that the higher ups already knew that you guys wouldn't be trustful of this vital information, so they lied to you to perpetrate a different side of Freemasonry to keep themselves out of the limelight? O__o I think I might be looking to much into this, more shots here I come!!

Originally posted by rebeldog
dude must be a "low tier" mason.. the minions of gullible rubes used as pawns to project a wonderful reflection of the true evil which exists only in the higher degrees.. 23-33d degrees.. 23d degree is the first "EYE" opener.. their first "new" reality...

it is like a rookie congressman telling us govt isn't corrupt..

And what are you? An expert on masonry? All so clued up on here aren't we.

reply to post by PsychoReaper4

I thought Feemasons don't tell vital information to people that have "loose lips" yet the ones telling us that Freemasonry isn't bad are the ones tied with the association. Does that mean that the higher ups already knew that you guys wouldn't be trustful of this vital information, so they lied to you to perpetrate a different side of Freemasonry to keep themselves out of the limelight? O__o I think I might be looking to much into this, more shots here I come!!

You have made an assumption that "vital information" is bad. Your assumption is wrong. In fact, I have no idea why you even made this assumption in the first place.

Secondly, why would anyone have to lie about "vital information"?
I won't tell you what I learned as a master mason. But I'm not lying about it.
Similar, I won't tell an entered apprentice what I learned as a master mason. Why would I have to lie about it to them?

Your conclusions seem quite random and not based on any valid premises.

reply to post by Saurus


See, my only problem with that statement is that how do I know you are telling the truth, or misleading me, without knowing. With Freemasonry comes this crazy assumption that evil lurks in the higher ranks. I'm not sure, but I'm kind of sure that you said that you were in the lower ranks, how do I know that the higher ranking officials of your "club" knew that you weren't trustworthy to keep information that would prove that the skeptics are right? So, instead they would tell you misleading information, because they knew you would be part of an online forum trying to dispute certain facts...thus kind of making me feel all paranoid right now. I found a place out where I live that pertains to Freemasonry and I'm actually considering joining just so I can know. Cause, if you haven't picked up on it, I'm kind of losing my mind right now. I'm actually kind of...losing it at the moment. Oh well, sanity isn't really important anymore cause I wouldn't be here right now if that weren't the case. O____o?

I think the masons also have a goal of expanding the commonwealth too.

reply to post by PsychoReaper4

With Freemasonry comes this crazy assumption that evil lurks in the higher ranks. I'm not sure, but I'm kind of sure that you said that you were in the lower ranks, how do I know that the higher ranking officials of your "club" knew that you weren't trustworthy to keep information that would prove that the skeptics are right?

What is a high level mason?

This is where non-masons get it wrong. American non-masons tend to think that masons who are 32° and 33° in the Sottish rite are "high level." This is odd, because any master mason can join the Scottish rite, and all who join get their 32° within a few weeks. Does that make them high level?

Now, I have not joined the Scottish rite, because it is really small outside the United States. However, I do belong to other appendant bodies, and will soon be "Supreme Ruler" of one of them. Does this make me a high level Mason or a low level Mason?

The high level argument is one that is always used by non-masons, but as of yet, in all the years on this forum, not one has been able to provide a definition of a high level mason.

I would be interested to hear what you consider to be a high level mason.

reply to post by Saurus


Okay. However there is still the argument that Freemasons do not provide certain information to members that they find untrustworthy. I'm not saying you aren't, but at this moment you are discussing a highly controversial subject with a lot of non masons. How in the world am I supposed to now know that they haven't already decided that, "Hey, this guy has this account on this site, personally I think he can't be trusted, let's just tell him that we're all high and mighty, so he unknowingly helps our cause?" Once again I know this is a very paranoid way to approach such a situation, but do I have your word that you are being truthful to your knowledge?

Originally posted by PsychoReaper4

However there is still the argument that Freemasons do not provide certain information to members that they find untrustworthy.

The reason for withholding information is not based on trust issues. For example, as a 32° Mason, NetworkDude has information that he will not tell me. Similarly, as a Prince of the Order of the Secret Monitor, there are things that I will not tell him. However, I trust NetworkDude completely, and we are good friends. Neither of us are higher than the other. We have just followed different paths, and are therefore privy to different secrets. Even the Duke of Kent, being the head of English Freemasonry, does not know the secrets that I know due to my rank as a secret monitor. However, even an 18° Mason in the Scottish rite knows things that I don't...

Again, it's like a university. You can become a professor in chemistry, and know less than a first-year student in the field of law. As with university, if I wish to know those secrets, I simply join that degree.

reply to post by Saurus


Doesn't that just enforce the stereotype of secrecy in that Order? How do you know that you aren't being fed something that is false and arbitrary, as apposed to that other person being fed something completely different. Which could also be false and arbitrary. I guess I'm just asking what's with all the different info? I mean if I had a social group that was subject to such criticism then I'd just tell my follower's and everyone else that we are about living life to the fullest, and have my followers perpetrate that same feeling. You know to help discredit all the B.S.

Originally posted by PsychoReaper4
reply to post by Saurus

 

How do you know that you aren't being fed something that is false and arbitrary, as apposed to that other person being fed something completely different. Which could also be false and arbitrary. I guess I'm just asking what's with all the different info?

This is the way that Freemasonry works. An example is that in the third degree, you are taught something. Then if you join the Royal Arch, you are told that what you learned in the third degree is actually wrong, and they then teach you something else. Then, if you join the cryptic degrees, the tell you what you learned in Royal Arch is wrong, and the they teach you something else. Furthermore, as an additional example, the secrets that they give you in the Royal arch were changed some 20 years ago, because some members did not like the secrets.

Every mason knows this, and actually embraces this fact, which to outsiders may seem absurd. This is all explained by the fact that Freemasonry is "veiled in allegory" and "illustrated by symbols". The method of teaching is to force you to question and explore the teachings or allegories, and thereby find the truth yourself. They will tell you of a story that happened between two historical figures, and the story may contains certain secrets (which may be real or fictional or a mixture of both) and you are left to determine the lesson contained therein.

The lesson to be learned lies in the symbolism of the story and secrets, not in the stories or secrets themselves.

It is hard to explain to the non-initiated, but every Mason understands exactly how it works, and usually find this method of teaching/learning to be more effective in discovering truth than actually teaching truth itself.

For example, you cannot have faith unless you have questioned everything you believe and then still believe it afterwards. If someone simply tells you the truth, you cannot simply just believe it. You first have to find out and eliminate all that is false in your own mind before only the truth remains. Only you can do this - the interpretation of all the evidence presented to you in your exploration of your beliefs lies solely with you. Freemasonry simply gives an enhanced understanding of this method of learning through allegory and symbolism, to enable you to determine your truth in your own life.

reply to post by Saurus


Alright, then why do such teachings have to be so hidden in obscurity?! This seems like # that should be used to help the common good of the human race, yet these assholes would rather charge you $75-$150 a month to essentially find the meaning to all that happens? Seems kind of childish and psychopathic to me.