Some masonic secrets for the masses

Originally posted by WanderingThe3rd
My friends dad is a 32degree mason, and this is exactly what my friend told me, its all about personal gain.

and that they have meetings (at least where i live) every thursday 10 - 12
and i've seen the masons handbook, or bibble what ever they call it, its all in code

like

S.W. will be called apon
J.B. bla bla bla
S.W. bla bla bla bla

like its weird.

edit on 6-10-2010 by WanderingThe3rd because: (no reason given)

LMAO.... Its funny cause its true.....Thats exactly how it looks to most people before the learn about it

Originally posted by Jagedline
There is a reason for this, the Majority of Masons' are within the first 3 degrees. Therefore they are not privy to the information you are pointing to.

There is nothing in what he said that appears in any degree in Masonry, not the York Rite or the Scottish Rite. A persons 'degree' is not a mark of rank, only that he attended a degree ceremony and has hopefully absorbed further lesssons in Masonry's tenets. As has been pointed out previously; you can join the Scottish Rite and in one day get your 32nd degree.

Does every Mason worship Satan, I don't think so.

Not every Mason even believes in Satan.

With that said, there can be some arguments leveled at Freemasonry that it is in direct conflict with most of the major religions.

It is only in 'conflict' if the person in question has a fundementalist approach to their own religion and is intolerant of others beliefs.

Originally posted by network dude
I kind of thought that most of the ignorance had been denied, but unfortunately I was wrong. Here are a few things that keep getting brought up by people that just aren't true.

1. No mason, in the history of masonry, has ever used the "devil horns" as a masonic signal or sign. It may belong to some other group of which I have no knowledge, but as far as masonry goes, it has no place. George Bush used it a lot. He is not a mason. Ron Paul apparently has used it, He is also not a mason.

2. Not every president or person of power is or has been a mason. The last masonic president was Gerald Ford. Obama is not a mason nor a Prince Hall mason. Masonry has NOTHING to do with power or control. It has everything to do with personal growth.

3. Inside our meetings, behind the closed doors, with no windows, there is a business meeting taking place. Paying bills, assigning tasks for some function, deciding when to do degree work. With some ritual involved. but I would say much less than in church.

4. Masons will help each other whenever possible. We will not break any laws to do so. And acting immoral is against our principals. Masons are just men, so none of us are perfect and some even screw up sometimes, but we try to remember to be good people and treat others as we would like to be treated. take that for what it's worth.


In these times of economic uncertainty and civil unrest, there are a lot of things that we should all be concerned about. Masonic affiliation is not one if them. We are just like the Rotary, Ruitans, Kiwanas, or any other civic group when it comes to our affect on society. Save for the betterment of the individual that I feel is paramount in masonry.

Item #1: George Bush IS a Mason! And Signs are Used.
Item #2: George Bush.
Item #3: Paying Bills?
Item #4: Masons don't break Laws? Do you Obey the speed limit?

"We are just like the Rotary, Ruitans, Kiwanas, or any other civic group when it comes to our affect on society."

Yep, because you are all Connected and don't even have a Clue to Who is "In Charge".

LOL

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Jagedline
There is a reason for this, the Majority of Masons' are within the first 3 degrees. Therefore they are not privy to the information you are pointing to.

There is nothing in what he said that appears in any degree in Masonry, not the York Rite or the Scottish Rite. A persons 'degree' is not a mark of rank, only that he attended a degree ceremony and has hopefully absorbed further lesssons in Masonry's tenets. As has been pointed out previously; you can join the Scottish Rite and in one day get your 32nd degree.

Does every Mason worship Satan, I don't think so.

Not every Mason even believes in Satan.

With that said, there can be some arguments leveled at Freemasonry that it is in direct conflict with most of the major religions.

It is only in 'conflict' if the person in question has a fundementalist approach to their own religion and is intolerant of others beliefs.

For your first point, I should have clarified a bit more. For that I apologize.
You second point is moot. I stated that I did not think that all Masons worship Satan.

As for your third point I can only humbly ask that if you are a Mason, did you participate in the rituals and oaths? If so, is your religion Christianity? If it is Christianity, tell me how the following can be construed as intolerant.

Matthew 5:34-37 “But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven…nor by the earth…Neither shalt thou swear by thy head…But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.”

Did you take your oath over your Holy Book and if so, how does the above not apply? It is a contradiction just as I said. There are many more but that is for another day.

reply to post by IAMIAM


This is a typical response of the Freemason. When shown clear evidence written by some of the most respected of Freemasons (Pike, Hall, etc ....) the tactic is argument ad hominem.

I like watching IAMIAM go from loving brother to thrower of pointed and barbed words in the guise of playful self-deprecation.

The Craft is polarizing. People either have no problem with it, or they are generally very distrustful of it.

It is pointless to try and discuss anything with these folks.
They all star one another as to make their posts look more worthwhile than others.

I do not trust a Freemason. I do not believe that anyone who belongs to any fraternal order that uses and abuses oaths is trustworthy. Oaths are used by the mystery schools to make certain people feel that they must adhere to obligations and they are also used to make the rubes feel at ease. They are meaningless word games that employ smoke and mirrors.

I have said it before and I will say it again.

No Freemason should be allowed to serve in government. The only oath that any American should take seriously is one taken when they are allowed to serve their state (country) and that is it.

And if you want to know what I mean by pairing the word state and country then study the US Supreme Court ruling Barron vs. Baltimore.

The more a Freemason tries to convince the world that they are harmless private clubs. The more that they expose themselves.
It is no different than a liar constantly telling the lied to that said liar is telling the truth.

Keep exposing yourself. It is quite humorous to watch.

Originally posted by Jagedline
For your first point, I should have clarified a bit more. For that I apologize.

No worries.

You second point is moot. I stated that I did not think that all Masons worship Satan.

And I do not know any who do, it goes aginst the belief in a 'supreme being'. If you believe in God and that God created Satan, then Satan can not be a supreme being if he was created by one.

As for your third point I can only humbly ask that if you are a Mason...

I am.

did you participate in the rituals and oaths?

I did.

If so, is your religion Christianity?

It is not. But in the interest of full disclosure I was raised Roman Catholic but found it not a fit for my own personal spirituality. However, this epiphany happened long before I became a Mason.

If it is Christianity, tell me how the following can be construed as intolerant.

Matthew 5:34-37 “But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven…nor by the earth…Neither shalt thou swear by thy head…But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.”

This is a boilerplate quote that always comes up. I ask; do you swear to tell the truth in court? To uphold the Constitution when joining the military? When getting married? When taking public office? Etc.

Did you take your oath over your Holy Book and if so, how does the above not apply? It is a contradiction just as I said. There are many more but that is for another day.

One can take the lessons from a 'Holy Book', the Bible for instance, without taking the entire thing literally and still make one's self a better person.

Originally posted by Josephus23

Keep exposing yourself. It is quite humorous to watch.

Sorry, I didn't realise my zipper was down.

It is much wiser to stand outside the door and scream conspiracy! conspiracy! they have secrets, than it is to knock on the door, meet a friendly face, and be welcomed inside.

Is that your wisdom my friend?

If so, by all means have it.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by mw451
Item #1: George Bush IS a Mason! And Signs are Used.

nope no matter how you say it, or think it or even write it down, it just ain't true. In order for him to be a mason, he would have to have been at a lodge to be raised. No such records exist and until you provide them, you are only fooling your silly little self.

Item #2: George Bush.

Please see above.

Item #3: Paying Bills?

yep, like the electricity, trash pick up, gas bill, you know, bills.

Item #4: Masons don't break Laws? Do you Obey the speed limit?

not all the time. and when I get caught, I have to pay a crooked lawyer to bribe the DA into letting me plead to improper equipment so that I don't get any points on my licence. Have you ever killed anyone?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

This is a boilerplate quote that always comes up. I ask; do you swear to tell the truth in court? To uphold the Constitution when joining the military? When getting married? When taking public office? Etc.

There is a bit of a problem here, regardless of how many ways this particular act is done, that does not justify it. The verse clearly states it is wrong, yet some how we have decide that it doesn't pertain to us? This is like saying "everyone lies, so the commandment does not apply to me!"

Christians (in this discussion) can not have their cake and eat it too. If they are religious, they can not pick and choose what applies like they are at buffet line.

So the question remains, regardless of the fact that this is being ignored by the masses is it or is it not contradictory? The answer is yes. That was my point.

Thank you for the intelligent discussion.

Originally posted by network dude

not all the time. and when I get caught, I have to pay a crooked lawyer to bribe the DA into letting me plead to improper equipment so that I don't get any points on my licence. Have you ever killed anyone?

Dude, just go to the Prosecutor and ask to plead down the ticket, you can use the money you saved from the lawyer to buy more bee.....uh, I mean sweet tea.

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by Josephus23

Keep exposing yourself. It is quite humorous to watch.

Sorry, I didn't realise my zipper was down.

It is much wiser to stand outside the door and scream conspiracy! conspiracy! they have secrets, than it is to knock on the door, meet a friendly face, and be welcomed inside.

Is that your wisdom my friend?

If so, by all means have it.

With Love,

Your Brother

You did exactly as I have described.
Argument ad hominem disguised as playful banter.

You attributed an argument to me that I have not made.

conspiracy, conspiracy!

That was no where to be found in my post. I suppose that you might find it easier to debate my point if you make up some sort of argument and attribute it to me and then argue that point.

Your "loving brother" ploy is not working and if I were to guess, then I would attribute the most sociopathic traits to your posts, but then again, you could just be having a good time playing internet commando.

Keep on with the manic posts. I find them highly entertaining.

Originally posted by Jagedline
Christians (in this discussion) can not have their cake and eat it too. If they are religious, they can not pick and choose what applies like they are at buffet line.

So the question remains, regardless of the fact that this is being ignored by the masses is it or is it not contradictory? The answer is yes. That was my point.

That being the case; in your opinion how do you reconcile this personally if you are infact, Christian?

What did/do you plan on doing when and if you get married? I have several friends who are quite religious and they seem to have no issue with this aspect of Christiantity.

Thank you for the intelligent discussion.

The same.

Originally posted by Jagedline
So the question remains, regardless of the fact that this is being ignored by the masses is it or is it not contradictory? The answer is yes. That was my point.

Thank you for the intelligent discussion.

edit on 6-10-2010 by Jagedline because: spelling error

My friend, if your interpretation of that scripture means that you cannot swear an oath or take an obligation, then you are correct, Freemasonry is not for you. There is an obligation. It is much like the Oath our military members, politicians, defendants in court, etc. take.

If this is your point of view, I respect that. I also assume it means you will not swear such an oath in court, you will not to join the military, you will not as a politician.

I have no problem with another's belief, so long as they consistently apply it.

Now before you start berating my Christian Brothers for being Masons, remember who is the Supreme Judge, and know your place in your Christian doctrine, and that is to Love God, with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself. Freemasons are your neighbor and deserve as much love as yourself would expect to receive.

Judge not, Love all, be at peace

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Josephus23


not that you will care, as you are just as obstinate as we are about your beliefs I am sure. But the oaths we take are to ourselves. If I sneak around and tell you all about the masonic hand shakes and pass words that are on almost every freaked out fundie web site out there, nobody knows or cares. Except me. So if I violate my oath, I have disgraced myself and lessened my integrity. But I haven't caused any harm to anyone. I haven't damaged the plans for the next takeover of the world. I just sold myself out. When a person get married, the take an oath to each other on the Bible. When I joined the USAF, I took an oath to give my life for my country if necessary. That is a bit more than anything I promised to do in masonry. When you get a job with a major corporation in the right department, you might have to sign a non-disclosure agreement about their secrets. Would you turn down a good job because of your aversion to oaths?

Originally posted by Josephus23

You did exactly as I have described.
Argument ad hominem disguised as playful banter.

Exactly as you described? I thought you were making a request, my apologies.

Originally posted by Josephus23
You attributed an argument to me that I have not made.

No my friend, I asked if this was your argument. You never bothered to present one.

As you have not presented an argument my friend, how about we get to that. Tell us what your position is and why you have it.

You are welcome to keep what ever attitude you have about Freemasonry. I am not trying to get you to change your mind. Your view is just as valuable to you as mine is to me. We all have that divine right by God, and I would gladly defend even your view, but I will share mine as well.

So tell us my friend, what have you against us?

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

That being the case; in your opinion how do you reconcile this personally if you are infact, Christian?

If I was Christian, this point can't be reconciled, it is wrong and I have to accept it as such. Just because your friends have no issue with it, this does not make this okay in the eyes of their creator does it?

You took the oath correct? If so you swore that you would not reveal the secrets. If you do reveal the secrets what is the punishment? Rather brutal isn't it? If we stick to the Christian religion, isn't the human body considered a "Temple of God" ? If it is, does the Christian have the right or authority to allow another to desecrate that Temple?

The above is another example of the contradictions I mentioned. Of course you might say that you took the oath BUT no one would ever dream of following through with the punishment. If one is truly a Christian how do they resolve these issues?

Maybe I am just intolerant and a fundamentalist. It must be that the Bible is a book of suggestions not the Word of God.

I for one am not one for speculation and I will not speculate on things of which I know not, I will most undoubtedly be wrong. But no all are like me. Many will speculate.

It does not help that you like to call yourself a "secret society" and hold secret rituals. That in itself will get people talking, whether the rituals be benign or not.

Giving each other secret handshakes, and such, that just may also offend some people. Why don't you just shake everyones hands the same way?

For matters of disclosure I will say that I had a grandfather who was a 32nd degree Freemason, in the Scottish rite, and was to ascend to the 33rd degree but refused to travel to Scotland, I believe it was, and after his death I found a treasure trove of masonic literature in his library and read it all. So I know a little about them, even though I never was one, nor claim to know something I don't. My grandfather was also a practicing sorcerer, a very rich man, and very involved into he occult. Whether the two were linked together is speculation, and thus I will not speculate. He was an influential man, and has also had several things, including a prominent street in a large city in the United States named after him.

I will tell you one thing he told me though. He said that after he got to the 32nd degree he was taught that many of the things they were taught were wrong, were now okay. And he saw many of the higher degree masons involved with and practicing things that were condemned on the lower levels and he considered it to be quite hypocritical, this was his reason for refusing to become a 33rd degree mason. If more or less was involved in that decision who knows, I'm just laying it out like I was told. His son (my uncle) died a mysterious death and soon afterwards he purports to have rejected Freemasonry. Who knows.

Cheers.

reply to post by IAMIAM

Now before you start berating my Christian Brothers for being Masons, remember who is the Supreme Judge, and know your place in your Christian doctrine, and that is to Love God, with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself. Freemasons are your neighbor and deserve as much love as yourself would expect to receive.

There is no judgment here, I am asking questions. These questions are based on their claimed beliefs. As for the aversion to oaths, the passage quoted as well as another say that they are wrong. The argument of this person or that person chooses to do it is hollow. The Holy Book says it is wrong, not me. I just pointed to where it says this action is wrong.