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Originally posted by lambs to lions
reply to post by Michael Cecil
I have often wondered if we are reborn, perhaps over and over again until the point where we are ready for the afterlife. Having said that, if this is the case, do we repeatedly come back until we as an entire population are all ready, or just ourselves?
Originally posted by IAMIAM
Originally posted by adjensen
No, both religion and logic tells us that there is only one path to the truth, and many paths that lead away from it.
My friend, could you expound on what this Truth is that is only achievable by one path? What is it?
My friend, does Christianity teach that God makes mistakes? If not, who are we to say we are not perfect, God created us did he not?
Originally posted by adjensenHowever, in the face of that downfall, God offers us his company through an act of grace -- atonement and sacrifice on the part of Christ, who was, of course, God. If you accept this grace, it is yours. If you do not, you reject the method by which God offers to be reconciled to you.
Where is the Christian God? I thought he was all around us, within us, and without?
Originally posted by adjensen
]Once you accept Christ's two commandments of Love God and love everyone else, which he explicitly says are what are necessary for eternal life,
If these are Christs two commandments, why do you add to them the below conditions?
Originally posted by adjensen
and you accept the salvation he offers, the means by which you accept God and he accepts you, that's about it.
Originally posted by lambs to lions
IAMIAM, I hope that you do indeed share your thoughts in this discussion. I am interested in hearing multiple points of view on this subject. Thanks for your input!
Originally posted by Michael Cecil
Things are simple.
People live more than one life; but only very few people have memories of previous lives; and even fewer have received the Revelation of the Memory of Creation; which is what is meant by the phrase "the path is narrow".
Originally posted by adjensen
and you accept the salvation he offers, the means by which you accept God and he accepts you, that's about it.
Because that is what Christ taught.
Originally posted by IAMIAM
Jesus Christ - Was the Son of God, so are we by our divine spirit the spark of life, Was the Son of Man, as are we by our physical birth from our parents. He was NOT God, but understood the divine will of God better than any Man in the past. His death on the cross was a lesson to Man on the depths of love we should share for each other.
Originally posted by Michael Cecil
Originally posted by adjensen
and you accept the salvation he offers, the means by which you accept God and he accepts you, that's about it.
Because that is what Christ taught.
Jesus did not teach any blood-thirsty doctrine of "vicarious atonement" for sin.
Any salvation that Jesus offered was salvation through the Knowledge of Truth rather than a belief in the doctrines of the witless religious 'authorities' who had "hidden the keys of Knowledge" like a "dog in a manger".
That pagan-demonic doctrine was taught by Paul to cover up for the fact that Jesus was murdered because he taught the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'; a Doctrine which threatened the power, the wealth and the pride of both the Pharisees and the Sadducees.
Michael
Originally posted by adjensen
Originally posted by Michael Cecil
Things are simple.
People live more than one life; but only very few people have memories of previous lives; and even fewer have received the Revelation of the Memory of Creation; which is what is meant by the phrase "the path is narrow".
There is absolutely no support for this in Christian scripture,
Originally posted by adjensen
Whatever it is. Absolute theological truth.
Originally posted by adjensenNo, it does not teach that God makes mistakes. Our imperfections are our behaviours, which are the result of choices that we make, as a result of the existence of free will. We are responsible for the choices that we make, we can't just put them off on God with a "you should have made me better."
Originally posted by adjensenWhat does that have to do with anything? Are you asking if Christianity or my personal beliefs are in accordance with Pantheism? If so, no.
Originally posted by adjensenBecause that is what Christ taught. I'm not a big fan of quoting scripture, but a couple of relevant passages are John 14:6, Mark 8:31 and Luke 10:25-37
Originally posted by adjensen
Originally posted by IAMIAM
Jesus Christ - Was the Son of God, so are we by our divine spirit the spark of life, Was the Son of Man, as are we by our physical birth from our parents. He was NOT God, but understood the divine will of God better than any Man in the past. His death on the cross was a lesson to Man on the depths of love we should share for each other.
If he was not God, then he was a liar and blasphemer of the worst sort for claiming to forgive sins, mediate between the Father and man...
Originally posted by adjensen
If he was not God, then he was a liar and blasphemer of the worst sort for claiming to forgive sins, mediate between the Father and man, and not rebuking anyone who implied that he was God. As a faithful Jew, it was a horrible sin to even listen to such statements, much less make them. By the word of the Bible, if he was not God, then he deserved death, by the Jewish law, if nothing else. Christ never repudiated Judaism, so he was subject to the law, like every other Jew.
Originally posted by adjensen
Do you believe that Jesus deserved to die, then?
Originally posted by adjensenIf you dismiss claims in the Bible that Christ was God, why do you accept any of it? Do you pick the things you like and write off the bits you don't as some sort of conspiracy?
Originally posted by Rustami
John-
I and the Father are one.
Originally posted by Rustami
Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
Originally posted by RustamiDon't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
Originally posted by Rustami
Daniel-He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Originally posted by Rustami
Revelation-
And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.
Originally posted by IAMIAM
Originally posted by adjensen
Whatever it is. Absolute theological truth.
My friend, your religion is your vessel of Truth, you claim it is the only path to this truth, yet you do not know what this truth is?
But if God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omni-benevolent, then it stands to reason that he knew what we would do when he created us, and not capable of mistakes, created us exactly how he wanted us, behavior included. Does it not?
The Bible was compiled by order of the Roman Empire and is a mix of Judaism and Christs teachings, wrapped in Pagan tradition.
Jesus taught by works (caring for the power, weak, and widowed), and by speech. He never put anything to writing, because he knew that doing so lends to corruption. Did he not regularly put down Pharisees and scribes? Scribes are those who put religious doctrine to paper and Pharisees are priests.
Originally posted by Michael Cecil
Maybe you should read the Gospels just once......for kicks.
In his reply to the Sadducees in the Gospel of Luke, Jesus says that "the children of the resurrection are sons of God."
He uses the term in the plural, not the singular.
Secondly, in the Thanksgiving Hymns (1QH) of the Dead Sea Scrolls, written by Jesus, Jesus specifically denies that there can be any mediator at all between man and God...
Originally posted by Rustami
If I'm(godly men's words not my own that were eye witnesses and personally discipled/taught) trying to show you the Way and the Truth am I loving you?
Originally posted by Rustami
how is one sins forgiven?
Originally posted by Rustami
if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.
Originally posted by Rustami
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
Originally posted by Rustami
whose your neighbor?
Originally posted by adjensen
Of course not, and neither do you. (You will most likely reply with another "oh no, brother, I do know the truth," but that either means that you are delusional, you mistake conjecture for truth, or you are a liar.) God in incomprehensible, as we now are, so the absolute truth will not, cannot, be know within the current reality.
Originally posted by adjensen
this is not an accurate depiction of God.
Originally posted by adjensenThis is an invalid statement -- there are historical documents which demonstrate that the New Testament had been defined as canon more than a century prior to the conversion of Constantine.
Originally posted by adjensenThe Roman government had a fine "cult of personality" going for them, they were tolerant of minor religions (so long as they continued to view the Emperor as a deity, though a specific exemption was made for the Jews, who put up a pretty big fight to earn it,) and they had zero reason to adopt a minor sect of Judaism, a faith they nearly destroyed in 70AD, apart from Constantine's "vision" and conversion, if one believes that.
Originally posted by adjensenIf you read the texts, Jesus' beef with the Pharisees has nothing to do with the law, but their skewed interpretation of the law, and their practice of it. He didn't condemn prayer, he condemned the public prayer of the Pharisees that was intended to draw the praise of others, not the praise of God. He didn't condemn alms, he praised the widow who gave in her need, and suggested that the best way to give was to do so secretly, unlike the Pharisees, who gave so that others would see them and be impressed.
Originally posted by adjensenThe chances that anything Christ taught, did or said would survive beyond two or three generations is pretty slim unless someone wrote it down, so it is ridiculous to say that he didn't write anything down because he was afraid it would be corrupted. Which is more likely to be misunderstood, mistaken or corrupted -- something which is written down? Or an oral tradition?
Originally posted by adjensenEarlier, I suggested that the Gnostic fellow was guilty of taking an eisegesis approach to the Bible in seeking support for reincarnation (sorry, "rebirth") and this is another example. There are two approaches to scriptural interpretation -- exegesis, which is reading the text to find support or consistency with the rest of the text, and eisegesis, which is reading the text in order to find support for ideas outside of the text.
Originally posted by adjensen
Doesn't mean it's the truth, though.[