The Catholic Church: Deceptions and Control

reply to post by adjensen



Here is a question that is important to the understanding in this discussion. What language was the earliest Christian writings written in?

Anybody??

Re adjensen

your quote to Michael:

"You do not need to understand how an internal combustion engine works in order to drive your car. However, if you wish to learn how it works, you can study it and maybe you'll have a different experience in driving your car, maybe you won't."

And in the meantime, you'll be the mechanic repairing it, if it breaks down.

Honest Joe: Bying, selling and repairing cars. Think I would stick with a bicycle.

Re Michael

your quote:

"The Albigensians were murdered for what they taught. But the reason to burn their writings was to annihilate that Teaching itself."

IMO opinion you're right. There must have been something in especially gnosticism, which is dangerous to the basis of 'christianity'.

The other black religions or semi-religions like south american mass-sacrifices, black Kali worshippers or the inner nazi-circle of SS and that ilk, differed from the 'christian' bloodcult (manifested e.g. in the inquisition) by NOT having a stated ideological enemy number one. They just killed indiscriminately, where and when they could.

Originally posted by bogomil
No; I don't believe, that 'the differences between Paul and the apostles are the root of what you perceive Paul's corruption of the church is etc...'

I believe, that Paulus basically was a corrupted person through and through, and that would manifest in all his dealings with anyone daring to oppose him.

Once again, I am asking what that belief is predicated on? What is the evidence that Paul was a "corrupted person"? I asked you yesterday what your beef with him was and you replied:

I have formerly stated, that I have no possibility of evaluating "Christ's teachings", as I can't be sure, if the man existed or if it's him described in NT. What I HAVE said is that (according to the edited NT), Paulus was in conflict with the original disciples and apostles.

You don't like him, I get that. What I don't get is why you don't like him. Since you say that you have no way of determining what Christ taught, what is your basis for believing Paul corrupted it?

Why did you bring up a conflict with the Apostles if you subsequently dismiss it as not mattering? Does it not matter because I explained what the conflict was and you realize it doesn't matter, or have you changed your stand since yesterday?

Originally posted by IAMIAM
Here is a question that is important to the understanding in this discussion. What language was the earliest Christian writings written in?

There are those who believe that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew, and one would naturally assume that Paul's epistles would be Hebrew, as well, but it is commonly accepted that the New Testament (if that's what you're asking about with "earliest Christian writings") was written in Koine Greek, the common language of the Eastern part of the Roman Empire at the time.

How influential was the Emperor over the Counsel of Nicea? He was in attendance and the decisions were ultimately by his decree.

"The two councils of Nicaea were ecumenical councils of the Christian church held in 325 and 787, respectively. The First Council of Nicaea, the first ecumenical council held by the church, is best known for its formulation of the Nicene Creed, the earliest dogmatic statement of Christian orthodoxy. The council was convened in 325 by the Roman emperor Constantine I in an attempt to settle the controversy raised by Arianism over the nature of the Trinity. Nearly all those who attended came from the eastern Mediterranean region. "

www.thenazareneway.com...

What's interesting is that the argument being settled was primarily Christ's relationship to the Father. All this over the title used by Jesus, Christ. The earliest Christian documents were written in Greek and the title "christ" in Greek was Χριστός. Χριστός in Greek is refered to something with very good qualities. It is not a title for divinity or messiah except by decree of the Counsel of Nicea, and the will of Emperor Constantine.

Now why would Rome do this? Because Jesus' lessons were against the Power of Empire. Not one single lesson he taught supported the Empire or the establishment of Organised religion. If there are some, point them out.

Jesus' lessons were about self empowerment. Being responsible for your own actions. Adhering to the word of God, which is Love.

You don't believe the word of God is Love?

What other way is it possible for all mankind to live in peace with each other and not kill each other for our differences?

Every form of government we have established has taken freedom from some for the benefit of others. EVERY ONE. These Governments have been needed because we all think we can decide what is good and evil (Garden of Eden story). We judge each other and form groups (governments) to force our will of good and evil on others.

Example 1. If I want to walk down the street naked, it is my right by God. I WAS BORN THAT WAY.

However, some are ashamed of the human body so they form groups and pass laws that prohibit this movement. Granted, I have harmed no one and imposed my will on no one, yet MAN assumes to judge this as evil.

Example 2. I decide to grow and smoke pot.

However, some have realised that this will dip into their profits. They would rather I find my medicine in their man made drugs, or my relief in their man made alcohol. So they form groups (government) and pass laws which supress my will to use what God gave me. Granted, once again, I have not imposed my will on anyone nor have I harmed anyone. Man decided this was evil.

I could go on and on with the many laws we have on the books and how they are their to suppress our will. We will keep making them and keep having burdening Governments (all stemming from Rome) so long as we keep allowing others to define what is Good and Evil.

Good and Evil are self evident. We all have free will. As long as we do not restrict each others free will, we are good. To do this, we must trust God to be the judge of good and evil. Until then, we remain in hell under the Anti-Christ of Government. Thus,

Judge not, Love all, be at peace

With Love,

Your Brother

"After my departure there will arise the ignorant and the crafty, and many things will they ascribe unto Me that I never spake, and many things which I did speak will they withhold, but the day will come when the clouds shall be rolled away, and the Sun of Righteousness shall shine forth with healing in his wings." ~Jesus, The Essene Gospel of Peace

Originally posted by adjensen Yes, you need to believe in Christ's divinity to be a Christian.

In which case you will be a follower of Paul, and will have turned the Teaching of Jesus upside down.

And, what is worse, you will be holding to a belief which resulted quite directly in the demonization of "the Jews" and the slaughter of millions of Jews.

You may get in there and decide that Christ cannot be divine, in which case you leave Christianity...

And there is then the possibility that you will become a follower of the Teaching of Jesus.

If one wishes to understand Christian theology, there is nothing standing in their way. If one does not wish to approach their faith from that direction, there is nothing to say that they have to. It's completely an individual choice.

I have chosen not be a Nazi.

If that's alright with you.

And even if it isn't.

Michael

Well friends, it looks like my participation in this thread in going to be limited from here on out. I'm about to leave on a 5 week work trip. I'll be leaving Tulsa tomorrow morning, then on to St. Louis, Green Bay, Pennsylvania, and finally New Jersey.

I have REALLY enjoyed hearing all of your perspectives on religion, history, and His story. I respect all of you for your beliefs and I appreciate your points of view. All of you are able to back up why you believe what you believe, therefore your beliefs truly are you own...even adjensen's. j/k adjey



Thanks guys.

James.

reply to post by lambs to lions


Be safe in your travels my friend. May you find profit in being your Prophet.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


IAMIAM,

Thanks bro, I look forward to reading more of what you have to say about subjects such as this, as well as anything else.

Originally posted by lambs to lions
Well friends, it looks like my participation in this thread in going to be limited from here on out. I'm about to leave on a 5 week work trip. I'll be leaving Tulsa tomorrow morning, then on to St. Louis, Green Bay, Pennsylvania, and finally New Jersey.

Safe travels, and have an Imo's Pizza and Ted Drewes frozen custard while you're in St. Louis. Man, I sure miss those.

Re adjensen

your quote

"Why did you bring up a conflict with the Apostles if you subsequently dismiss it as not mattering? Does it not matter because I explained what the conflict was and you realize it doesn't matter, or have you changed your stand since yesterday?"

IMO=

I repeat: I don't give a iota about the motives for powerfights between two groups of fascists. And as said before, if people like to eat eggs upside or down and want to fight about it, it's just an expression of insanity beyond insanity.

The important part is, how the outer manifestations of this fight influence the rest of us, who are somewhat more sane.

This is the second time I write this, and as Arlo Guthrie said in 'Alice's restaurant': "I'm not tired.....or bored...I can go on doing this".

So we can go from square one to two and back, as often as the holy bubble refuses to recieve incoming information. Are you at yout wits end, desperate to terminate this thread by using diversionary tactics of "is", "isn't", "is" etc.?

Better for you, if you bore people to the point of going away rather than you meet opposition?

reply to post by bogomil


All right, you don't want to explain why you brought it up and now say you don't care. That's cool.

When are you going to explain your basis for the belief that Paul was "fundamentally corrupt"? So far, the most you've done is to say that he distorted Christ's teaching, and then say that you don't know what Christ taught. So, in the light of that, we're still left with your basis being that you don't like Paul, or you don't like Christianity and you blame it on Paul.

If that's the extent of it, just say so. If it's not, kindly explain the basis of your claim.

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by bogomil

 

All right, you don't want to explain why you brought it up and now say you don't care. That's cool.

When are you going to explain your basis for the belief that Paul was "fundamentally corrupt"? So far, the most you've done is to say that he distorted Christ's teaching, and then say that you don't know what Christ taught. So, in the light of that, we're still left with your basis being that you don't like Paul, or you don't like Christianity and you blame it on Paul.

If that's the extent of it, just say so. If it's not, kindly explain the basis of your claim.

Paul was a Pharisee; which means that he believed in the doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave. Sort of like the Egyptians. Whereas Jesus taught the "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

In terms of temperament, however, Paul was more akin to the Neanderthal Sadducees; who could not have argued their way out of a paper bag if their life depended upon it; which is why his response to the original followers of Jesus was to murder them for opposing the Pharisaical interpretation of the "resurrection". Such people are both violent and capricious; and, alternately, guilt-ridden for what they have done in their violent rages. Something like an alcoholic who beats his wife and then is the picture of remorse at what he has done; only to beat his wife again the very next day.

Have you ever seen a picture of the Israel's current Foreign Minister, by the name of Avigdor Lieberman, as I recall?

I would suppose that that is approximately what Paul looked like, even though he was a Pharisee.

The previous Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin, however, looked much more like a Pharisee.

Probably one of the reasons why he was murdered.

Michael

If the proliferation and industrial evangelization of the false church fills you with indignation, because since Cain, their precursor, they have continually made a merchandise of the Truth. If you are astonished by the way an innocent soul is evaluated and manipulated like a mere product for high financial gain, finishing as a trivial statistic exploited by the politic-economic-financial predators of this world.

This is part of the full text available at www.missionarieswithoutborders.com. Go to this site and you will find your way out of this necessary evil inflicted on the world.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Well, Christ indicated support for paying taxes a couple of times, and he didn't see to show governmental authorities any disrespect, as he did for religious authorities. That's not exactly tacit support (unlike Paul, who did write of it, even in the face of the fact that the government was persecuting the church) but I'd say it's enough to bring it in congruence with the rest of his message.

Time and time again, Christ taught that the things of this world -- wealth, clothing, food, drink, and so on -- are fleeting and not worth worrying about. An eternal existence cannot be bogged down or spoilt with 60 years of living that focuses on that which is of no consequence.

To that end, I would speculate (pure speculation, understand,) that Christ's direct message, if he gave one, would be to go along with the laws of the land, except where they conflict with the laws of God, and the expectations of his commandments. Ergo, your public nudity or drug laws, not really an issue, one way or another. Is it a sin to smoke pot? Probably not. Is it a sin to smoke pot when it is illegal to do so? That's a little bit trickier.

As for the nature of Christ, I will repeat again that if Christ is not divine, then he doesn't really have anything to offer that many others have also done, and by claiming to be God, he violated and insulted, in an almost unimaginative way, the culture he lived in.

For someone who claims that all ways are equal, you sure spend a lot of time arguing that some ways are not :-)

Originally posted by adjensen
For someone who claims that all ways are equal, you sure spend a lot of time arguing that some ways are not :-)

No my friend. My last post was not an argument against your view. I was providing the information for those curious on the subject. Whether or not one belongs to a church is not my concern, ensuring that they know it is not a requirement is. I am simply trying to help people avoid shackles or escape them. Of course, not all churches intend to be shackles. But when they claim a doctrine is the exclusive path to salvation, they are imposing fear as a way to get converts. That is against Christs teachings as I understand them. So, as you feel obligated to tell others that your beliefs are the only path to salvation, I feel obligated to present the other picture of Christs teachings. In the end, they can decide for themselves.

I understand your faith and why you believe as you do. I do not condemn you for it. It is not contrary to my beliefs, except for the fear based recruiting. You found your truth in your heart. That is all I ask everyone to do. I just try to get them to do it by searching with their heart, not being roped in by fear. That's all I am doing here.

We are both on the side of Christ. We have more in common than we do differences.

I think we both can see the time is on the horizon for all things to be made known.

Our faith is in God, it will come to pass.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by cybermessenger
If the proliferation and industrial evangelization of the false church fills you with indignation, because since Cain, their precursor, they have continually made a merchandise of the Truth. If you are astonished by the way an innocent soul is evaluated and manipulated like a mere product for high financial gain, finishing as a trivial statistic exploited by the politic-economic-financial predators of this world.

This is part of the full text available at www.missionarieswithoutborders.com. Go to this site and you will find your way out of this necessary evil inflicted on the world.

Hello my friend,

I have read this blog before and have been interested in joining this cause. If you have a point of contact, please U2U me.

With Love,

Your Brother

Yes the Catholic Church has prostituted the initial intent and meaning of the Gospel. Mary and the Saints won't save you from Hell. Rituals won't save you. Icon worship is idolatry.


Read about why Catholicism is a false religion and why a personal relationship with Jesus is the ONLY way: jesus-is-savior.com...

Originally posted by IAMIAM
reply to post by adjensen

 

Here is a question that is important to the understanding in this discussion. What language was the earliest Christian writings written in?

Anybody??

edit on 9-10-2010 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)

more than one.

original Latin, but that was probably translated from Hebrew (by Hebrew scholars)!

other language was Hebrew translated to ancient Greek (by Hebrew scholars)!

some translations from (again) Hebrew into maybe Aramaic language (similar to Hebrew) at the time.

it depends on where somebody thinks the "Christian" concepts originated.

some believe that Hebrew-Jewish Scholars invented and wrote "Christianity" and "Islam" both !!

Catholic Church has always used Latin .. many believe.

English came much later .. and was different than today's English.