Have you ever had your opinion on a subject completely changed by reading a post on ATS ?

Hello ATS.

I was wondering whether any members on here had their view on a subject matter do a 180º after reading a post, or posts, here on ATS ?

I am thinking specifically of subjects where people usually take one side or another and where both sides tend to be diametrically opposed.

I'm sure you know the kind of subjects I mean: Religion, alien visitation, most subjects that are covered in the Social Issues forum.


I was prompted to write this thread after seeing at least a dozen threads on one particular subject crop up in the past month or so, many of these threads reaching double-digits in pages.

In these threads I noticed the same members on both sides making the same old points, and no-one budging on their firmly entrenched stance.

That got me to wondering whether people's often vehement expression of their firmly held views or beliefs had ever changed anyone's mind on any given issue.

While I realise that changing people's opinions is not the sole purpose of discussion on internet message boards, it would certainly be a positive benefit to a poster, if someone were to come around to their viewpoint after reading a cogently reasoned and well-written post by them.


From my short time on ATS, I have noticed that there are a number of posters that post intelligent, thought-provoking and deeply incisive points, so it wouldn't surprise me if someone were to have their opinion changed by reading many of the excellent posts that are made on this site.

Personally speaking, I have had some of my views on many subjects enhanced by reading ATS, but not actually altered drastically.


I also realise that replies to my thread may be limited by the ''e-ego'', where people take their real-world feelings such as pride and reputation, and apply them to their online interactions.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Not in a 180 degree sense, no. But ATS has altered my thoughts about 9/11.

When I came to ATS I was a firm believer in a specific theory about how 9/11 happened, who was behind it, and what the motivation was. I had done my homework, or so I thought, and felt very secure in my interpretations of what actually happened that day. Then I came to ATS.

It only took me a few days of reading some of the very well presented information in a few threads here to find out that the things I thought I knew were almost all based upon flawed evidence, or were theories presented by unqualified "experts". The learning I gained here literally changed my thinking about 9/11.

I haven't done a turnaround though. I still don't buy the official story, or OS as it's referred to here. Like with the Kennedy assassination I know, in my gut, that there is something more here than the puzzle pieces we've been handed.

To that end, I am still reading threads and learning. I expect that ATS will be the place I finally find the answer that I find most plausible or the one that is yet to be proven accurate. So I keep reading.

And, hopefully, all the wonderful minds here will keep posting!

Absolutely I started a thread a few months ago about the rise of Neo Nazi movements in Mongolia. I thought that the connotations with Nazi Germany were fairly ridiculous, I had no idea of the connection between Asian mysticism and the Nazi doctrine.

My views on the matter were completely U-turned by Silent Thunder, one of the other members on here. The thread wasn't exactly popular or anything, but I learned a lot just from the suggested reading material. I certainly came to better understand the rise of the Nazi movement in the Mongolian youth, whilst not condoning it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Most of my time is spent in gun related topics. I've seen everything from complete turn arounds (as if this is the first time the individual has actually thought about it rather than just repeat some empty mantra) to admission of being completely wrong yet refusal to change position (which just saddens me.)

Personally I can think of a couple of things which have been reinforced and some facts that have been corrected but nothing I've made a complete idealogical flip on.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Explanation: S&F!

Yes I have seen it happen to other members as done by other members [specifically Phage]!

Here...

An observation. Big Boomers should beleive in the afterlife, too. (by Arrowmancer) [ATS]

Personal Disclosure: And here is when I did a 180 degree turn! Thanks SpartanKingLeonidas

[Warning: Women are Unwelcomed in Here!] My Massive Mysogyny!!! (by OmegaLogos) [ATS]

No... Though have learned a couple new things reading some of the posts here on ats..

reply to post by Hefficide


Yes, 9/11 is an issue where I've had my knowledge greatly expanded and pre-conceived views corrected, after reading many posts on ATS.

It seems the more I find out about it, the more confusing the whole issue becomes.

reply to post by Big Raging Loner


That thread you linked to is the kind of stuff that I came to ATS for in the first place.

People sharing their knowledge on subject matters that are ignored by the MSM, which in turn broadens our knowledge collectively.

Good stuff !

Yes.

When I first came here (Many moons before this registered username) I thought there may be a slight chance of ET visitation to Earth at some point in our history and was curious to know what we could at least imagine within palatable parameters of physical evidence for potential pop ins from our ET cousins.

Now I don't even keep an ember of that notion alive.

The ridiculous claims, huge suspensions of disbelief and downright fibbing of the 'believer' community have placed me firmly in the non-believer community.

I still have my scepticism and so have to still consider that it could be true at some level but time and time again the silly notions of those who take fantasy over factual destroy any...'hope'(?)...I had for there being something more extraordinary than our own existence coming into being or that our technological bounds may have been aided - I've studied the paranormal my whole life you know -but it seems we really are just that brilliant and varied without any injection of a more advanced civilisation and that, at least, gives me some comfort.

There still are many unexplained things out there which get attributed by some as 'alien'. for me now focussing on what they actually are, rather than what I would once have hoped thhem to be, is a good calling for now.

So yes - came in a sceptical hoper, became a sceptical cynic.

-m0r

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Yes Sherlock,
Many threads on ATS concern things that I firmly believe in and thought I knew thoroughly.
But after many, many months I have come to the realization that I didn't know half of what I thought I diid.

Furthermore, it is great to see others outlooks and experiences and how it has shaped their thought processes as well as mine.

Nice thread. S&F

73's,
Tom (KC5ILU)

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Most of my time is spent in gun related topics. I've seen everything from complete turn arounds (as if this is the first time the individual has actually thought about it rather than just repeat some empty mantra)

Have you ever personally managed to turn a gun control proponent into a gun-toting, fully paid-up NRA member ?

Originally posted by thisguyrighthereadmission of being completely wrong yet refusal to change position (which just saddens me.)

This is what I was referring to when I mentioned the ''e-ego''. People need to acknowledge when they are wrong, there's no shame in it.

In fact, I think people earn much more respect by admitting they are wrong than by attempting to weasel out of it with semantics or by just completely ignoring when they have been corrected.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


I'm glad you posted this thread OP! I have a chance now to publicly acknowledge the one time this has happened to me. I believe there were three members involved in my 180 dude. Chemtrails was the topic.
I think I was no more than three months into my rookie year on these boards. I joined the discussion
clueless of who was lurking the thread at that moment. ( I was so green it wouldn't have mattered)
I jumped in the thread with something about how are govt. is obviously spraying us with chemicals.
Long story less long. CHADWICKAS, PHAGE and I believe it was THE MASK. The three of them
all though I knew them from Adam at the time.
They had my ass turned around in less then ten minutes and I typed at a snails pace back then.
I'm lil faster now. Say a snail making his getaway. Anyway I have been accused of brown noseing at least once where one of them was concerned. Truth is, these guys earned my respect on level ground.
I'm so glad for the skeptics here at ATS. If not for them guiding the truth from the opposite end.
We'd all be brainwashed into losing our fricken minds thinking we were really on to something.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


I cant vouch for anonymous posters on some internet forum but in life I have turned quite a few gun-phobic Brady supporters into competitive and recreational shooters. It's amazing how quickly a little hands on knowledge and experience can erase or negate decades of indoctrination.

Admission of being wrong is a great thing. I have done it in the past and I'd do it in the future if I truly am wrong.

It's the people and posters who will admit theyre wrong, concede the point, then turn right around to the next conversation and continue being wrong. As if they were only wrong on the subject in one particular conversation with one particular group but carrying over that same position to another conversation with another group means it's right all over again until that group can prove the position wrong in that conversation.

Without naming names I was in a gun realted thread and a poster claiming to be from the UK had devolved the topic into a typical US v UK gun thread. One of thousands by now. Anyway, I stayed on as well as two other like-minded posters and eventually, after about 6 pages of the UK guy and me the UK guy actually came around and although he consistently inserted the caveat "I still dont want guns in the UK" he conceded the usefulness of firearms and let go of the nonsensical "guns are bad" position.

Then, not 24 hours later, he popped up in another thread with other posters railing against the US posters for their support of the peoples right to keep and bear arms. As though the previos thread never existed or perhaps he didnt really believe what he was saying.

I see this happen quite a bit. The poster making the admission or concession doesnt really believe what they are saying and just wants to get out of the thread or in other cases the poster appears easily manipulated and simply goes with the popular position in a thread rather than having an opinion of his own. If 60% of those posters in this thread are for gun control then Ill be for gun control but tomorrow in a thread with 60% against gun control Ill be against gun control. Like some sort of virtual peer pressure or going along to get along. Regional identification seems to contribute to this. Grouping together like street gangs.

reply to post by m0r1arty


Thanks for your input, Moriarty my old foe !

By the sounds of it your position was changed by a gradual accumulation of posts, rather than by one single post.

I imagine this is the most common way that people's opinions on a subject change.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes

In a kind of reverse way ATS can teach us a little about ourselves.
When we review our own posts and responses, It can be revealing.
It gives us some insight into our own personality, world view etc..
And is an opportunity for self observation and growth.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes
I certainly have.

What I have learned is to keep an open mind and not be too opinionated in subjects that I have not researched enough.

S&F!

In my short time here I've found my previously-held hardcore materialist atheist stance diminishing. To be fair, it had already started diminishing before I came to ATS.

Besides the ego, there are a couple other reasons why I suspect people don't have 180 flips of opinion very often.

For one, there is a such thing as a genuine values difference, especially on political topics ranging from communism to abortion. Different people have different visions for how society ought to work, visions that are based on values, and you're not going to change a person's core values easily if at all. The best that can be done in such a situation is to agree to disagree. Politically of course, this means that the two groups must fight it out with one of them imposing their values on the other, or else come to a compromise with neither group ending up particularly happy with the result. A third solution, more radical but the one I personally advocate, is the splitting into separate political units (I personally think the US is too large and should split up, and this could solve much of the currently insoluble partisan bickering by dividing into nations that share more common values - pro-global-government people would cringe at this suggestion of course).

For another, people just don't change that quickly. Probably the best strategy to take if you're here trying to change minds is to just stick to the facts and hope they will plant a seed in the reader's mind, that will maybe one day germinate in some sort of epiphany years down the line.

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened
For one, there is a such thing as a genuine values difference, especially on political topics ranging from communism to abortion. Different people have different visions for how society ought to work, visions that are based on values, and you're not going to change a person's core values easily if at all. The best that can be done in such a situation is to agree to disagree.

It's a good point you make about people's values. This is probably why so few people change their views on the social and political topics that are debated so fiercely on ATS and elsewhere.

The subject matter that I alluded too in my OP, that prompted me to write this thread, was the continual debate about homosexuality.

Despite numerous threads and countless posts on the subject matter, I've never once to my knowledge seen anybody from either side give any ground to the other, and it all seems rather pointless to me.

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened
Politically of course, this means that the two groups must fight it out with one of them imposing their values on the other, or else come to a compromise with neither group ending up particularly happy with the result.

Sadly it's all too common in humans to be intolerant of anybody else's position. Compromise is hard to swallow for many, and it's a lack of understanding and compromise that causes most of the problems in the world.

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened
A third solution, more radical but the one I personally advocate, is the splitting into separate political units (I personally think the US is too large and should split up, and this could solve much of the currently insoluble partisan bickering by dividing into nations that share more common values - pro-global-government people would cringe at this suggestion of course).

It's an interesting suggestion, and it makes some sense.

If you are a conservative, for example, then there would be somewhere you could go where your views would be an actuality, without them infringing on people that held different views.

The problem I see is that it wouldn't be too long before one nation decided it would like to expand it's power and influence onto a neighbouring state.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
The problem I see is that it wouldn't be too long before one nation decided it would like to expand it's power and influence onto a neighbouring state.

I unfortunately agree. As has been common throughout history and is all too common today, once people are secure in their own nations they seem to feel the need to "export" their values outside their borders. Why this leads to bloody confrontation is obvious.

In light of this I don't really see a perfect solution, but then again I've been a pessimist for a while so this doesn't really choke me up much. I still see decentralization as the lesser of the evils, and if done voluntarily might even provide an intellectual example for future generations as to the benefits of "live and let live" in the form of smaller communities.