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Revelation; "A time, times, and half a time"

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posted on Feb, 9 2011 @ 01:07 PM
My discussion of the timeline of Revelation will be completed by the next and final thread in the series, which will deal with the last two chapters.

posted on Feb, 9 2011 @ 02:03 PM
Now that the series is about to be completed, I would like to advise anyone who may be interested that there will, in due course, be an Index thread, intended to help people navigate their way around the whole collection.

posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 05:09 PM
Why this interpretation of Revelation has a chronology

I come to Revelation as a student of history.
I see Revelation as a chronicle, and I treat it in exactly the same way as I would any other source document (the fact that it is describing events in the future instead of events in the past is only a minor complication).
In other words, I try to get past the obscure descriptions and the disjointed chronology in order to establish exactly what happen and in what order, and why one thing leads on to another.

The procedure justifies itself, in my mind, by the fact that it works. That is to say, it seems to produce a narrative sequence with a clear storyline, one that is coherent and self-consistent.
(I was particularly gratified by the smooth way that the "seven kings" passage slotted into it. I came into this project with no thoughts on the "seven kings", so this was an unexpected bonus)

That is why my interpretation of Revelation has a chronological structure.
I've tried to demonstrate this in various places.
The "War on the Saints" thread is one of them.
The "Time, times, and half a time" thread is another.
It will be seen in the "Timeline" index of threads.
This is not a "timeless allegory", but a history.

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 06:25 AM
The predictions of Revelation

Many interpretations of Revelation produce "timelines" of future events, which are filled with elaborate detail.
I do understand Revelation as pointing towards future events, but my interpretation is much less detailed.
For me, this is a picture painted with fairly broad brush-strokes.

Nevertheless, I do see a rough sequence of events.
And here is my brief summary of what Revelation is "predicting".

1. A persecution of the church, implied in the background of ch1.
2. The great crisis of ch6, the "4 Horsemen" episode. I took this to be God's reaction to the previous persecution.
3. The rise of the two "Beasts" of ch13, the great world-state and its leader. This implies a recovery from the events of ch6, so I suggested that the Beasts might rise to power on the strength of leading the world out of that crisis.
4. The renewed persecution of the church by the Beast.
5. The destructive catastrophe of the Trumpets and Vials.
6. Finally, the Return of Christ and the "winding-up" of the old world.

posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 09:18 AM
This product contains no dates

In this series, I've been putting together my own version of a "timeline" of Revelation events.
But I made no attempt whatever to tie them in with the current calendar.
I haven't been trying to calculate exactly when the times of "tribulation" might start or finish.

There are reasons for this.

In the first place, Jesus himself refused to give any indication of time. He told his disciples that it was "not for them to know" the times which the Father had set. Why on earth should we think that we're entitled to acquire knowledge which they weren't allowed to know? But everybody knows that quotation.

There's also the pragmatic point, that so many calculations have been made and proved wrong in the past.

I'm also convinced that trying to calculate exact intervals of years from one event to another is a waste of time, because this is not the way God works. There is no reason to think that God lays out events at exact time-intervals, so there is no point in trying to second-guess his calculations.

As a test case, let's take the "seventy years" predicted by Jeremiah.
Jeremiah told Jerusalem that "these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years" (Jeremiah ch25 v11), that God would punish Babylon "when seventy years are completed" (ch25 v12), and that he would bring the exiles back from Babylon "when seventy years are completed for Babylon" (ch29 v10).
So if God is working with exact time-intervals, there should be seventy years between the destruction of Jerusalem and the fall of Babylon.
But the records of history tell us that the respective dates were 587 B.C. and 539 B.C. This is not an exact seventy year interval.
The explanation is probably that "seventy" is a symbolic number, one that keeps appearing in the Bible and Jewish tradition. It combines "7", the number which points us towards God, with "10", the number which points towards completeness or perfection. So "seventy years" means "the complete period which God has assigned".

And I suspect that exact calculations based on the implied "seven years" of Daniel ch9 v27 will go astray for exactly the same reason. We need to recognise how often numbers are part of the symbolism,

The purpose of Revelation is the building of faith, in order to motivate the "patient endurance of the saints".
But date-calculation may be a symptom of impatience, an unconscious attempt to reduce the necessity of endurance.
And a failed date-calculation, after the event can be a very effective killer of faith.
Faith would be patient and willing to wait for God to do things in his own time.

posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 06:12 PM
reply to post by DISRAELI

I always thought the situation in Africa (famine, disease) fits in with the fourth horseman. But then again it could also be coming up as something much more major than that...

posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:26 PM
reply to post by timeoftheend

In my two threads on the 4 Horsemen, I argued that they were God's response to the world's persecution of the church. That's their context in Revelation (persecution already happening ch1, God prepares his response chs 4&5, then strikes).
That was why I was arguing that it ought to be the world at large, rather than a random portion of the earth, and would still be in the future (because we haven't had the major persecution of the church yet).

posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 03:09 PM
There is now an Index, covering all these Revelation threads, at this location;

Index of Revelation threads

This thread is numbered as #15 in the "order of chapters" list and Biblical reference index.

posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 01:10 PM
Just to clarify;
Nothing in the OP is intended to suggest any particular prophetic significance in the year 2012 or the date 21/12/2012

posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 08:13 AM
reply to post by DISRAELI

My response to the claims made about the year 2012 was that I could see no prophetic significance in the date.
This position seems to have been vindicated.

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