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Revelation; "A time, times, and half a time"

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posted on Oct, 3 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Humour me with a study
I know with your abilities as shown on this site over and again that you will get it and put it in a way better than me

Your comments are very flattering.
The thing is, my viewpoint being a Christian one, that's the one I'm good at expressing.
In any case. there's a Revelation project that needs to be sorted out first.

MY viewpoints are also a "christian" one.. You are very quick to dismiss and neglect the fact that the culture and people that the Word comes from is Jewish.. Yeshua Himself is NOT a christian but a Jew who kept shabbat and the feasts.. Those which are to be kept FOREVER as a memorial and are all about Him and His Messianic agenda.. Yet you would not even listen to someone from that culture who knows for a fact that the message is relevant to your study of this subject and you would gain a lot from it too..

It shows arrogance and a blindness to all but the self..

Yeshua is the Word, the culture and the Spirit of the Jewish people in truth.. It is the very root that supports those grafted into this tree.. Do not boast against it or deam it irrelavent.. God does not and nor should you,

edit on 3-10-2010 by Yissachar1 because: (no reason given)



edit on 3-10-2010 by Yissachar1 because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 3 2010 @ 11:52 PM
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Disraeli,

I've read many of your posts and found them to be insightful.

Concerning Daniel chapter nine, there are many interpretations, most of them variations on ideas spread by John Nelson Darby and some of his contemporaries in the nineteenth century.

Therefore, allow me to present you with a different perspective, one not based on speculation about the future, but based on scripture lain against factually recorded recent events.

Besides the so called "70th" week, Gabriel was clear when he told Daniel there would be 62 "weeks of years" before "Messiah was cut off". He also said there would be 7 weeks of years.

These two time periods have one thing in common: They both begin counting down at "The reestablishment of Jerusalem to Israel". This is very important and often overlooked.

Obviously the 62 were fulfilled. But what about the 7 "weeks"? Many have tried to place these 7 "weeks" in various places, but one thing is certain, none of them began with a "reestablishment of Jerusalem to Israel".

In our time, however this event did occur again, for the first time in history since the return from the Babylonian exile. It happened in 1967 during the Six Day War when Israeli forces took back the "old city".

That's where we should start counting down: 7 "weeks of years", plus one more, the "70th week", bringing us to a total of 8 "weeks" that begin in 1967 and end in 2024.

As for Daniel's (or rather, Gabriel's) "70th" week, it is the only one in all the 70 to be described. It is described with three specific points of prophecy. We know what they are:
1. A 7 year "Covenant with Many" shall be established,
2. A halting of the "daily sacrifice" shall occur,
3. "The abomination of Desolation" will be established.

I'm here to tell you that all three of these prophecies were fulfilled perfectly between the years 1993-2000.

They happened thus:
1. 1993, the 7 year "Oslo Accords" were ratified by Arafat and Rabin (whose name means "the many").
2. March 13, 1997, (3 1/2 years to the day of the signing of Oslo) the "daily prayer", a stand in for the "daily sacrifice", was halted by the Palestinian Authority on the Temple Mount.
3. Right after Oslo ended, Ariel Sharon ascended the Temple Mount declaring that any Jew has the sovereign right to walk on those grounds, inciting riots and violence that lasted for many months as well as the current Palestinian "intifada".

This last one may not make sense until you read the alternate interpretation of Daniel 9:27 found in the footnotes of the NIV and considered by many scholars to be the most accurate translation:

It reads: "One who causes desolation will come upon the pinnacle of the abominable temple until the end that is decreed is poured out on the desolated city."
...clearly negating the need for a "third temple", instead describing an "abominable temple" (the current situation) and "one who causes desolation".

This is a perfect description of what Ariel Sharon fulfilled. Doesn't make him the "Antichrist". Doesn't need to. It does make him "one who causes desolation".

This event is what triggered the downward spiral that the world economy and world peace, itself, has been on ever since. October, November 2000 is the very moment that the bottom dropped out of the economy. The world powers shifted drastically. Bush was elected, Putin, and Sharon, himself in special elections just a few months later.

Indeed, the so called "70th week" of 1993-2000 was a period of relative peace for Israel and the world. We saw economic booms, the rise of the internet, optimism.

Most importantly, even supernaturally, the period 1993-2000 occurs directly in the middle of the "8 week" time line that begins in 1967.

You'll find that there are 3 1/2 periods of 7 years each, both preceding and following 1993-2000.

And remember that these are Biblical years. So I'm speaking approximates.

Ask this question: In the Olivet Discourse, why did Jesus say that "when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel, let those in Judea flee to the mountains..." ? (Notice that soon after this event Sharon began "walling in" the Palestinians. The human rights abuses currently underway in Judea are all rooted in Ariel Sharon's policies.)

Jesus also referred to this as being the sign that the end was "right at the door".

Why would he point us to a sign that was, according to Darby and all who ride on his coattails today, the last event of the endgame?

It's because it's not the last event.

These prophecies about 1993-2000 were given to Daniel so that those of us that live in these times would recognize them for what they are.

There were signs in the heavens. Jupiter was struck. On March 13th 1997, the Hale Boppe comet was in it's prime.

Look at Daniel chapter eight and you'll find another description of the "taking away of the daily sacrifice". It's described as basically, (paraphrasing because I don't have it in front of me) "certain powers of the heavens were given over in exchange for the taking away of the daily sacrifice".

March 13, 1997 was also the same day the "Phoenix lights" event occurred.

Now, do what you will with this information, but take note: I'm not trying to foretell coming events based on scriptural interpretation. I'm not speculating about how the prophecies will play out. This is all factual information of historically verifiable events that happen to relate perfectly to Daniel chapter nine.

Ask this question as well: if we're supposed to be on the lookout for a 7 year treaty with Israel, how many are we supposed to ignore before the prophesied one occurs? And how many of them will also appear to be perfect fulfillment of prophecy?

The Oslo Accords are the first and only 7 year treaty Israel has signed in all of history.

As I understand it, according to this time line, the "time, times and half a time" are references to 3 1/2 seven year periods both preceding and following the "70th week" fulfilled in 1993-2000. The first 3 1/2 "weeks" were 1967 -1993. The final 3 1/2 "weeks" are 2000-2024.

The 4th "week" began in 1990 and was cut in half by the "treaty week" in 1993. It resumed in 2000. Amazingly everything that occurred in the split "4th week " repeated on both sides of the "treaty week".

In the 3 1/2 year period preceding 1993 we saw the first WTC attack and the first gulf war.
In the 3 1/2 year period following 2000 we saw the second WTC attack and the second gulf war. Almost as if they picked up right where they left off.

I'd encourage anyone to verify this information for themselves.



edit on 4-10-2010 by Alpha Arietis because: edit



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 01:32 AM
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reply to post by Yissachar1
 


You are quite correct. If a person does not understand the feasts nor the layout of the temple, they will not understand the basic backdrop of Rev. A second point is the Jewish wedding and the way God set it up. This too plays in Rev. but to a lesser degree. Study the feasts and the temple and you will then know how it will play out.

To the OP, the points you brought out regarding the and it being just another way of saying the same amount of time is correct. Rev. tells much the same story several times but from different perspectives. Its seing the same events from different angles. Thus we have days, times and an hour for our different views. You just got to love how God gave it to us with just enough information so we know what to expect and just enough left out so we don't think we know everything.



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 04:57 AM
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Originally posted by Yissachar1
You are very quick to dismiss and neglect the fact that the culture and people that the Word comes from is Jewish.. Yeshua Himself is NOT a christian but a Jew who kept shabbat and the feasts.. Those which are to be kept FOREVER as a memorial and are all about Him and His Messianic agenda..

OK, point taken and accepted. But a couple of remarks still need to be made.

One is that this thread was very much about the internal structure of the history in Revelation, particularly as it relates to the rule of the Beast and the time when it is persecuting the saints. As far as I can see, your comments on the fig-tree and the time for repentance relate to the timing of God coming in judgement, which is important, but I haven't been able to see how it connected with the specific topic of the OP. Perhaps you would like to read over the OP and explain how your angle connects with the view expressed there.

Also the question of the time-factor still remains.
Remember, I was reacting to your suggestion that I should not just look at this line of interpretation relating to the feasts, but actually present that line of interpretation myself- on the flattering grounds that I would do it.better. And my point was that I could not present that line of interpretation until I had made it my own, and I could not make it my own without, at the very least, a time-commitment. And I am committed at the moment to this project of attempting to interpret Revelation in terms of its own words. Although you may have noticed that on different occasions I have been drawing very heavily on the various Old Testament prophecies to which the imagery in Revelation alludes.

edit on 4-10-2010 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 08:00 AM
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can someone please refer me to the verse that says there is to be a 7 year peace treaty



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by iamnot
can someone please refer me to the verse that says there is to be a 7 year peace treaty

Yes, exactly. I know where people are getting it from. I think it's the currently popular interpretation of Daniel ch9 v27;
"He shall make a strong covenant with many for one week".
However, you will see in the OP that I give a completely different interpretation of that verse; I relate it to "the ten kings offering their power to the Beast".
The "seven-year peace-treaty" is the product of anxiety to find topical details in Revelation, which I think is a mistake.

edit on 4-10-2010 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


Exactly. That verse says nothing about a peace treaty. The way I understand that verse is that the antichrist confirms that he is the christ with many for one week. That is the covenant.



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 09:03 AM
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i'd point out that your deconstructing the times of the end in the micro scale...conflicts with mine


so..i will present you with another way of looking at the 70th Week

Sunday, Monday, Tuesday are the first three days of the week, so to will the elements of Daniel's 70th Week
and the elements of Revelations play out in a type of representayion of the days of the week.

Sunday/Monday/Tuesday = 1st three years........... And 1/2 of Wednesday = One-Half Week
these days are representational of the Four Horsemen...notice that the rider on a white horse arrives, that is the anti-christ that is still yet un-revealed....and he enters/begins the final week on a Sunday



then the 2nd half-week (42 months- 1260 days of witnesses, 144K sealed, etc etc)
One-Half Wednesday plus Thurdsay, Friday, Saturday....= the 2nd 1/2 of the Prophetic Week (of years)


Notice that Saturday, the Sabbath, is the 7th Trumpet...it is the culminatrion of all the wraths/bowls/plagues/thunders
It is also the time period when Gods' forces led by Michael actually attack the Beast Empire/False Prophet/anti-christ... not as you assume, when you say God is fighting against the Beast all throughout the final 3 1/2 years


keep doing the week days corresponding to the certain events & tribulations of the Prophetic 70th week

that's the Macro view as opposed to your micro view


the 'middle of the week' corresponding to a Wednesday (ie hump day) is when the AC / FP set up the image-desolation-mark....Wednesday= is adoration to the God 'Odin' ~ also the God Mercury


Wednesday
- Latin = Dies Mercurii ("Mercury's Day", was named after their god Mercury)

- Greek = Hemera Hermu ("Hermes' Day", Hermes was the greek messanger of the gods)

- Skandinavian = Wódnesdæg, the Skandinavian name for this day comes from Wodan (Odin).
- Icelandic = Midvikudagur ("Middle of the Week", the original name for this day was 'Wódnesdæg" = Wodan's Day)
- Swedish = Onsdag
- Danish = Onsdag
- Norwegian = Onsdag (maybe "Odin's Day")



since the Greek & Latin are more relevant to the John of Patmos book,
i'd look in depth at what Mercury might relate to the anti-christ
and what Hermes might relate to the false-prophet..
on a midweek day=year that is generally angelicized as being Odins' day
(wow 3 gods of three pantheons on one day of the week, kinda like a 'trinity' of sorts .... huh?


kinda like a code that the AC & FP come about on the mid-week day of the week,
that 2 demigods share.... uh huh?

as i say, look up & make the connections that the days=years corrospond to each other,
with that info. it will present a different series of timescales to your micro deconstruction of the end-times dates/ & timelines...

hope this helps in some manner




ADD: heres the Days & their meanings link:
www.cybersamurai.net...





edit on 4-10-2010 by St Udio because: babble



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 
Disraeli,

This reply will be on the prophecy of Rev. 11:, but first I want to make something clear to many I see want to take the seventieth wk. of Dan. 9: way on away from the 69-t/h many yrs. and that is a mistake big time, the seventieth wk. follows the sixty ninth and began 27 AD, He died 30 AD and this caused the oblation and sacrifices to cease, the veil was rent in half, Yahweh tore it in half from top to bottom and left the Temple and left it desolate, and then Yahshua continued His ministry thru 34 AD. The Temple was left desolate without His Presence. Also that veil was huge, no human hand tore it, it was 30 ft. high and 60 ft. wide and 2ft. thick and may have been thicker than that. Many make something else of that that is absolutly false.

Rev. 11,: I had in another reply made a post on this but don't remember now where. The first verse is a measuring up of those that worship therein. This is a judgement if you will of the house of God first. Remember when He comes He comes for the Redeemed first, the first resurrection so you see it is sorted out before.
Re 11:1 ¶ And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. ( Then )

Re 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

These outside the court are the people who have never come to Him and believed in His Salvation but are given a chance now for 42 mos. 3-1/2 yrs. or 1260 days all the same amount of time to come and be in His camp or Satan's if you will.
Re 11:3 ¶ And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Re 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Re 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

There is a lot of views of who the 2 witnesses are but I find we are to be His withesses and in this case I find this chore goes to the 144,00. Read - Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
They are armed with the Holy Spirit ( Two Olive Trees ) and the two candlesticks ( The Old and New Testaments, His Word ) The Holy Spirit and the two Candlesticks have always stood as the guide and lamp for our feet. These will go forth with much power there is no doubt, men will see again the mighty working of God through faithfull men. Do you suppose Mosses and Elijah are going to have to come and die again? I know better, we are all appointed to die once and not twice.

Re 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Re 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them

It isn't hard then to read the rest of the chap. and see this is the last witness to men and it is finished. Then the last verse - Re 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

This shows His Law still stands and it is finished, The last message to come is given and mercy is closed, all have been given a chance to come to the fountain. This time period is a parallel to the 42 mos. of Rev. 13 but with a different view of things at the same time. With what I've given on other replies in other threads I will let this be it and hope it helps someone.

The Truth does iron out all the wrinkles and makes the path straight.

Truthiron



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by St Udio
Notice that Saturday, the Sabbath, is the 7th Trumpet...it is the culminatrion of all the wraths/bowls/plagues/thunders
It is also the time period when Gods' forces led by Michael actually attack the Beast Empire/False Prophet/anti-christ... not as you assume, when you say God is fighting against the Beast all throughout the final 3 1/2 years

Thank you for that contribution.
You're not willing to count the first six trumpets as "God fighting against the Beast"?
It seems a pretty war-like situation to me- I expect to get onto the trumpets in the near future.
And the whole sequence of trumpets is introduced by "peals of thunder, voices, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake", which looks very much to me like God's way of announcing that war has been declared.
Neville Chamberlain made a lugubrious announcement over the radio- God does it with thunder and lightning.



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by DISRAELI

Thank you for that contribution.
You're not willing to count the first six trumpets as "God fighting against the Beast"?
It seems a pretty war-like situation to me- I expect to get onto the trumpets in the near future.
And the whole sequence of trumpets is introduced by "peals of thunder, voices, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake", which looks very much to me like God's way of announcing that war has been declared.
Neville Chamberlain made a lugubrious announcement over the radio- God does it with thunder and lightning.



no i do not... the Trumpets are for all mortal men, as some transpire all during the first half-week before the antichrist and false share power with the kings ( for an hour) and then lay-low 3 kings thus completing the
the seizing of the (10 toes - 2 feet) kingdom.
the church/Laws (candlestick) are in someway complicit or idle as the anti-christ person comes to seize the kingdom and the first few Trumpets are not God fighting...but instead giving due warning to the laggards in the churches ...

we do know that the anti-christ has not yet revealed himself, so the first 3 1/2 years when we see the 70th week commence,,,the escalation of the 4 horsemen that have been cycling in history to a new and profound presence at the onset of 70th week of Daniel is actually a clue & warning to the faithfull& the backsliders...
that the prophetic time clock has begun




Notice that the end-time reinvigorated four horsemen is not 'punishment' metted out to the Beast and those who have accepted his Mark.
but is sent out to the whole world of both good and evil persons... its only after the middle of the week , ie 3 1/2 years after the antichrist is revealed that punishment begins...
and its not God or the army of Angels at conflict with the Beast empire/man but it is the Earth and Nature
& the Cosmos and supernatural ways...along with the Beasts' nature to self-destroy that brings about all those calamities on itself and the followers...

God and Michael only war with satan in the final Day=Year of the week, at the 7th Trumpet, 7th vial, 7th bowl/ 7th plague, 7th seal are all in the package of 'wraths' leveled at the Beast & the followers, but also
withany remnant of good people too.



" God does it with thunder and lightning. "
our contemporary war zealots, the neocons call those actions Shock and Awe
edit on 4-10-2010 by St Udio because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by St Udio
its only after the middle of the week , ie 3 1/2 years after the antichrist is revealed that punishment begins...

Yes, but I gave my reasons for identifying ch8 vv2-6, ie the beginning of the trumpets, as the middle of the week.
To recap the argument; one "hour" = one "week". Two names for the same thing.
Beast not being punished in the first half of the week? Yes, I agree, and that's exactly what is meant by the statement "There was silence in heaven for half an hour".
"Half an hour" = first half of the "one hour" = first half of the "week"
"Silence" = "God not expressing his wrath in punishment".
This first half-hour or first half-week occupying the period from ch7 v1 to ch8 v1.
I was using that argument in my very first thread, and repeated it in this OP.
edit on 4-10-2010 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 
Disraeli,

I'll watch for what you post on the trumpets but I want put a guide out as to when they start - Rev.8:5 gives the clue - Read -
Re 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
Re 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
Re 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
Re 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
Re 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

That Angel with the censer is our High Priest, Yahshua who at the present is still ministering in the Heavenly Sanctuary. This is the time when He gives the signal to the Trumpet angels to sound when He casts the censer of coals of fire from alter into the earth and we know from the old Testament the trumpets sounded just before the day of atonement and this was a shadow of the True in Heaven when we come to the consumation. Are we about there? He, Jesus, Yahshua is also the one found worthy to open the seals. Prophecy is a wonderful rewarding study and bears much fruit of increased faith wisdom and understanding.
For sure the Truth of all things must be had, a precious gem.

Truthiron



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Alpha Arietis
As for Daniel's (or rather, Gabriel's) "70th" week, it is the only one in all the 70 to be described. It is described with three specific points of prophecy. We know what they are:
1. A 7 year "Covenant with Many" shall be established,
2. A halting of the "daily sacrifice" shall occur,
3. "The abomination of Desolation" will be established.

I want to consider the meaning of the word "Desolation", because I think that's crucial to identifying it properly.
The English word comes from the Latin "SOLUS", "alone". A "desolate" widow is a woman on her own. A "desolate" land is a land that doesn't have any other human inhabitants.
The Greek word used in the gospel comes from EREMOS, which has the same meaning. That's important, because it shows what the gospel writers thought the Hebrew meant.

My lexicon gives the Hebrew word as "desolate" or "laid waste", and it's worth noting that the same word is used to describe Ezra's state of mind when he learns about the mixed marriages. Usually translated as "astonished".
So I think the word is really describing an emotional state- "devastated" in the emotional sense.

"Abomination of desolation" is used in 1 Maccabees to describe what the historical king Antiochus Epiphanes does. I don't think we can understand the Daniel story properly without connecting up with the history, because the two are obviously related. If we understand Daniel in the light of the historical events, that tells us;
That the hostile ruler is the one who is responsible for the Abomination.
That "setting up the Abominaton" and "causing the sacrifice to cease" are more or less the same thing; they're two aspects of the one operation. That's what the king did in the Temple.
And I'm convinced that the emotional impact of that event is what is meant by "making desolate". The Jews felt they had been "cut off" from their God. This meant that they felt alone, isolated, desolate.
It seems to me that a modern version of "Desolation" would have to be something along the same lines. Something which gave people the sense that they had been "cut off" from their God.

But I'm not sure that the intifada and events following on from it meet that description.



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by truthiron
Rev. 11,: I had in another reply made a post on this but don't remember now where.

It was in my thread on "the Two Witnesses".


There is a lot of views of who the 2 witnesses are but I find we are to be His withesses and in this case I find this chore goes to the 144,00.
They are armed with the Holy Spirit ( Two Olive Trees ) and the two candlesticks ( The Old and New Testaments,

yes, I agree that God's people are the two witnesses, as you will know from reading my thread on the subject.
But you have missed the point about the allusion to Zechariah. Zechariah mentions the two olive trees, and they are then identified to him as "the two anointed ones"- ie as Zerubabbel and Joshua. ie as "the king and the high priest". This is very important in identifying the witnesses as the church, because, as you will remember from ch5, "he has made us a kingdom and priests to our God". Or "kings and priests" in some translations.


This time period is a parallel to the 42 mos. of Rev. 13 but with a different view of things at the same time.

Yes, I know. In fact I spent the entire OP making that point. That is part of the fundamental theme of this thread.



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 
Disraeli,
I don't believe I'm wrong about the two olive trees. They are to feed the golden oil through the two golden pipes to the two candlesticks to keep them burning. Now the "anointed" ones verse 14 are the two angels ( in this case because it is the Heavenly Sanctuary ) that tend to meting or distributing out the oil, Spirit to those who are of His Word, receptive etc. His World is Spirit and this is why so many don't get much from the Bible, they read it and not know His Word is Alive, He is in it, it is the Truth, Spiritually Alive.

Zec 4:11 ¶ Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
Zec 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
Zec 4:13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
Zec 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Here a little there a little and after awhile all the pieces fit in perfect and we see the picture.

Truthiron



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by truthiron
Zec 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
Zec 4:13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
Zec 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

This was my point.
The king is anointed.
The high priest is anointed.
The two anointed ones.
If you look at the context, you realise that the whole point of Zechariah chs 3-4 is to encourage Joshua and Zerubabbel. They are the leaders of the people under God, and it is in that sense that they are "feeding the lampstand" of God's people.



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by 35Foxtrot

Further to my previous comment on the translation of "a time, times" etc;
The Greek word is KAIROS- a set time, a limited time.
This is followed by KAIROUS, a simple plural.
But I believe the Hebrew word in Daniel ch12 is in the "dual" form, which specifies "two of".
So the usual interpretation (and sometimes the translation) of the Revelation ch12 verse tends to follow the Daniel precedent, assuming the verse to be a quotation.
Hence "A time, two times, and half a time".



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 






i explained in the earlier thread of what Earth time duration coincided with the 'hour' and 'half hour';


i will not digress...
this other link i'm presenting has nothing to do with {time-times-and a half-time} Whoa...tailgate party time

but is interesting in their approach to the classic early church meaning of Revelations & old/new testaments

www.voiceofelijah.org...

(or else fashion you own address without the pdf with the first part - then! (-library-antichristdl) no slashes
but dashes instead)


times-a-tickin,,,, which has to do with both 'cronus' and 'chronos'



posted on Oct, 5 2010 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 
Disraeli,

The great time of trouble is soon to come upon us and the starting of the trumpets may just be Revelations beginning of it. Compare -
.Da 12:1 ¶ And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Michael the great prince, the Son of God and this is who comes to the golden altar Rev. 8:2. Now to say this is Michael standing up in the account in Rev. may not be but is close that is for sure. None of the trumpets have started yet.. Even the first trumpet can be seen has not happened yet - Read -
Re 8:7 ¶ The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

A third of the trees have not been burned up nor has ALL the GREEN grass ever been burned up. If it had of happened would that not bring on a time of trouble such as never was. Each comming trumpet gets more severe and the last three are perilous, woe,woe,woe for the last 3. Sure sounds like a time of trouble doesn't it?

Dan.12: is the chapter that deals openly with the time of trouble and he gives us a time to reckon with. The daily has been transferred to the Heavenly Sanctuary since that service was done away on earth when Christ died on the cross and the services here merely pointed to the true.. Christ has been ministering the daily since the Sanctuary was cleansed in Heaven. Read - Da 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. ( I won't get into that timing here ) What is important now for this disscussion is the daily taken away. Read - Mr 13:14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
I find the abomination of desolation to be Satan standing in the place of Christ personating Him. That certainly will be a time to flee to the mountains!

Da 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

This time is shortened for the elect's sake - Read - Mt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

It looks like the 1290 and 1335 of Dan. 12: is not to come to frutition, no doubt shortened to 1260 days of Rev. also the same as 42 mos., 3-1/2 yrs., time, times and half a time.

Fellow travellers in time, Dan. 12 gives you the time of trouble, and not the seventieth wk. of Dan. 9:, that wk. was without any doubt the yrs. 27,28,29, 30, 31,32,33 and 34 was a Jubilee yr. How can you take that wk. of yrs and not allow it to fall after the sixty ninth, you can not, it is history long past, come on, it is time to wake up.

How long will the trumpets last? Perhaps within the last 42 mos. They happen just before the day of Atonement.

We are close, very close to that time.

Truthiron





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