HAARP/SCALAR/(possible ufo) Clouds Over Israel? , page

I have always found the circular holes in the clouds to be rather interesting. Some folks think they are caused by HARRP, some think perhaps Scalar Weapons, or, there is always the belief it is just ionospheric heaters around the world.

I myself am not strong in my knowledge of those fields to really know one way or the other. I do find this video below rather curious though. It appears to have 2 of these openings in the sky. Also of note, if you notice around the .26 second mark when he pans to the second one, there appears to be solid object above and to the right. The moon perhaps?

I am not going to call it a ufo, because I am really more here for the clouds and to hear what you think about them, or what category you think they fall into. The other object is just a bonus for the footage.

reply to post by onehuman

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Google Hole Punch Clouds

cheers

I think these are called fall streak holes

From wiki

"Such holes are formed when the water temperature in the clouds is below freezing but the water has not frozen yet due to the lack of ice nucleation particles. When a portion of the water does start to freeze it will set off a domino effect, due to the Bergeron process, causing the water vapor around it to freeze and fall to the earth as well. This leaves a large, often circular, hole in the cloud."

en.wikipedia.org...

Lots of other info available about them too eg. the current 'cloud of the month' over at the cloud appreciation society (a most splendid website) cloudappreciationsociety.org...

reply to post by Wobbly Anomaly

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Ahh, a wiki head. I suppose you missed the memo listing the various examples of information on the Wikipedia site being false?

reply to post by Phage

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Scalar waves have never been shown to exist?

Oh really?

As is well-known from Electrodynamics a large class of EM-processes can be described by means of two potentials, a scalar potential φ and a vector potential A. The couple (φ,A) belongs to Oschman’s super world. What is to be seen on the screen of our "physical world" are electric and magnetic fields and current and electric charge densities. Each of these quantities can be derived from potentials (φ,A) (cf. Appendix A), the magnetic field by

(1) H = curl A ,

the electric field by

(2) E = – grad φ – μAt ,

the current density by

(3) j = 1/c² Att – Δ A

and the density of electric charges by

(4) ρ = 1/c² φtt – Δ φ .

Here the potentials are tied by the additional condition

(5) div A + ε φt = 0 ,

the well-known Lorenz-condition (falsely ascribed to due to H.A. Lorentz). It is easily to be seen (cf. Appendix B) that another couple of potentials (φ',A') will generate identically the same EM-process, if the conditions

(6) A' – A = – grad U

and

(7) φ' – φ = μUt

are fulfilled, where the function U has to be some solution of the wave equation

(8) 1/c² Utt – Δ U = 0 .

(see source for the complete explanation)

Source

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reply to post by HermitShip

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I like it, baffle them with bullsh...!

How about breaking it down for the layman?

Because you do know what you're talking about, right?

reply to post by HermitShip

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If you are going to copy and paste something, you may want to actually give credit to the site where you posted from

Never mind, i will do it for you

In fact that web page even listed references

www.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de...

reply to post by HermitShip

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Thank you for posting that but maybe, since you didn't understand the equations, you should have read the words. It is a proof against the existence of "scalar waves".

J.L. Oschman gives some further statements on his "scalar waves", our null-potential waves:

"Scalar waves appear to interact with atomic nuclei, rather than with electrons. Such interactions are described by quantum chromodynamics (Ynduráin 1983)."

We doubt that. Schrödinger’s equation and other equations of atomic physics contain scalar potentials V. So at first glance one might believe that here we would have a direct effect of potential on the "physical screen". But the next glance shows that the potential V is restricted by the condition V = 0 at infinity. This means that the additional constant contained in V is fixed, and the information in V is equivalent to that one in grad V, which is a force and hence a quantity of the "physical screen". Therefore we guess that Oschman’s reference might be an over-interpretation or misunderstanding of sources in physical literature.

"The waves are not blocked by Faraday cages or other kinds of shielding,"

This statement could possibly be fulfilled by choice of the generating function U. But it is physically worthless, since null-potential waves have – as far as we know up to now – no physical effect, no traces on the "physical screen".

www.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de...

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by HermitShip

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I like it, baffle them with bullsh...!

How about breaking it down for the layman?

Because you do know what you're talking about, right?

lol

As best as I can gather, those equations are saying that, in theory, any electromagnetically neutral state can be be generated by two initial conditions that physically cancel each other out.

So basically zero is not really zero, it could be 4 and -4 or whatever. Except in electrodynamics finding the symmetry between these two is a little more complicated than sticking a minus sign in front of something. You have to relate them through a scalar wave equation - so ta-da! "Scalar waves" are born out of literally nothing.

But because these things exist in the math hardly makes them automatically tangible in our physical world. For example time travel is totally possible in physics because you can make any time variable negative and still come out with mathematically valid solutions - but building an actual time machine is a whole other can of worms.

So all in all these equations are actually kind of intriguing - but until you can show how they can be physically extracted - ultimately kind of useless as well.


...and pointing to a hole in a cloud hardly makes them legit.

Originally posted by HermitShip
reply to post by Wobbly Anomaly

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Ahh, a wiki head. I suppose you missed the memo listing the various examples of information on the Wikipedia site being false?

OH....well, you didnt look at the cloud appreciation society link ?

how about New Scientist then ?

"ThThese are crisp gaps in mid or high-level cloud layers, below which dangle trails of ice-crystals. To form a fallstreak hole, the cloud layer must consist of supercooled droplets - that is, water is in liquid form - even though temperatures at cloud level are well below 0° celsius. A fallstreak hole forms when one region of the cloud finally starts to freeze, starting a chain reaction. All the moisture from the supercooled droplets in the area rushes to join the ice crystals, which quickly grow big enough to fall below. A form of "virga", the trail of ice crystals doesn't tend to reach the ground, but evaporates away before doing so."

www.newscientist.com...




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