SAS officers warn that Britain is unprepared for a Mumbai-style attack

SAS officers warn that Britain is unprepared for a Mumbai-style attack

ww w.telegraph.co.uk

In a highly critical article they argue that too much money is being spent on preparing to counter "the least likely threat – fighting the Cold war, with conventional weaponry instead of facing the most likely, such as al-Qaeda, "with high tech information-age means".

The MoD is an institution which has become "paralysed by the SDSR", and is not willing to change its own course or "able to think of a new way of doing what it needs to do with a diminished budget".

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Within the special forces community, both UK and US, these two men are well-known and highly respected not only for their expertise as soldiers but for their outspokenness and criticism of the strategy behind the Iraq War, and their disdain for unnecessary secrecy and bureaucracy.

Williams was removed from his position as Commanding Officer of the SAS for acting as a source for BBC defence journalist Mark Urban’s book Task Force Black, which recounts the special forces campaign in Iraq in unprecedented detail. As well as a high-ranking Officer in the SAS, Graeme Lamb was the Director Special Forces during the invasion and early stages of the Iraq War, who returned in 2006 as the Senior British Military Representative in Iraq. He had become a close friend of General David Petraeus, who before taking command in the closing stages of Iraq, had first stopped in London to brief Tony Blair and request that Lamb’s deployment as the SBMRI, normally 6 months long, be extended indefinitely.

What these guys say is worth taking into account, even if much of it mirrors widely-held concerns in the military establishment. I hope that their analysis goes some way to influence the current defence review.

ww w.telegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

If you ask me, the entire west is unprepared for such an attack. It wouldn't take much planning or money to carry one out. The causalities, if carried out in one of the major cities in the more liberal states in the US, or any city in Canada would be horrific in a very short period of time. The psychological affect would be devastating as well. If it caused the shut down of the city in question, the affects would be amplified ten fold when people start to run out of food and water. People in major metropolis' are ill prepared for any type of shortage.

To be perfectly honest, I am surprised that such a terrorist attack hasn't occurred on western soil. It would be almost impossible to stop it unless the right people had someone on the inside involved.

Don't anyone here remember the SAS guys who got cought redhanded in Basra on their way to blow a Mosque with their jeep full of C4 and themselves dressed as Basra Arabs?

Remember how these guys were breaked out from jail with allied armor?

I surely did!

I think that is exactlly why fanatics will opt for such attacks-especially after the results of the Mumbai atrocity.
Fanatics will always attempt to choose methods which will give them their "best" results.

Britain would be an ideal target for such sickos-as the public are not allowed to carry guns-leading to a turkey shoot scenario.

I doubt the same fanatics would try a similar style attack on say the USA,as they probably know many average joes would fight back with guns.

A mumbai style attack on a UK city would be horrific,until the special forces could get to the scene.
I would have thought the terrorists would go for somewhere away from London,where our most badass cops are,and instead choose a city like Manchester or Norwich,where people may not have the same resources to fight such an attack.

Hope the recent drone strikes have been enough to destroy there plans anyhow.

Scenario;

Islamic radicals armed with AK47's, RPG's, grenades and explosives storm a high profile hotel in London and start shooting indescriminately.

The radicals know this is a suicide operation and are well prepared to die.. They will not take hostages, they will not negotiate with police but will fire at the police with abandon.

The police are woefully under prepared for this so call in Troop to sort it out. The regiment gets there asap however in the meantime many more people have been shot or blown up in the period of time it has taken for Troop to get there.

Then, another attack similar happens in another part of the country. The radicals have designed the secondary attack to occur two hours after the first. The first attack was designed to tie up security forces in one place thus leaving a longer period for the SF to get their crap together..

Then another attack.. Same M.O. ...

Conclusion;

The SF would be too stretched to cope. The police are not soldiers but more like glorified meter maids and social workers who are not equipt to deal..

The result would be a successful operation by the radicals with many deaths and red faces in the government.. Politically could cause a major government change,legislation change and maybe a form of internment (northern ireland style) introduced..

reply to post by Chevalerous


Read this and stop spreading such disgusting lies.

Originally posted by Soshh
reply to post by INQUISITION11

 

As part of an MI6 (SIS - I’ll call them MI6 to avoid confusion) agent-running operation, several SAS men were drafted in to act as escorts for MI6 operatives meeting sources. The SAS presence was designated Operation Hathor. As time went on this detachment increased in size, they began to advance from their baby-sitting role and used intelligence gathered from their MI6 colleagues to launch raids. The Operation Hathor detachment would eventually grow into “Task Force Spartan” but that occurred after the incident.

Intelligence found that the local police force, based at the Jamiat police station, was corrupt and militia-infiltrated beyond belief. They were carrying out assassinations and kidnappings as well as other activities that you wouldn’t expect from an effective policing unit. The first thought was to storm the police station and lift the head of the police force, Captain Jafar. This was deemed too risky and extremely politically sensitive, so instead it was decided that they would trail Jafar, map out his normal movements and lift him somewhere quiet and out of the way.

There were 2 cars involved in the undercover operation and it was eventually decided that they had enough information to capture Jafar in the way that they intended. However, one car had aroused suspicion and on their way back they were stopped at a checkpoint. A policeman opened the car door and tried to pull the driver out, who killed him and injured several others at the checkpoint before speeding away. Their car was locally bought and as terrible as it looked and they eventually decided that they couldn’t escape the police in pursuit, so they lay down their weapons and were captured and beaten up etc.

Fortunately unbeknownst to the police, the other car was involved in the chase and was able to trail the captured soldiers back to the Jamiat police station before returning to Basra palace with the bad news. A cordon of soldiers from the Staffordshire Regiment was formed around the general area (it was these soldiers who were seen on fire in media reports) and a predator drone was dispatched by JSOC but it would take several hours to arrive. A Sea King helicopter was eventually on the scene and saw people being moved into the police station with RPGs and other such gear; basically they were preparing for an attack.

It is assumed that the police and militia elements eventually decided that they were out of their depth, and they moved the soldiers to a house on the outskirts of town. A scuffle outside the station caught the eye of an observer on the Sea King, which followed the captives to the house. There was concern that the soldiers were being handed over to a militia group for execution and the (unauthorised) decision was made to storm that house. A noisy and excessively violent assault spearheaded by Challenger 2s and Warriors was made on the Jamiat station itself, but this was mainly a diversion to misdirect media attention. The SAS assault on the house with the captives inside found that they were alone in a locked room. There are many theories as to why the militia decided to leave them alone but they made the right decision none the less. I hope that this was an enlightening and enjoyable read for you.

The fact is, the two men featured are certainly worth listening to. I hope Cameron and his cronies stick out their posh ears and have a good old listen to what's being said.

One of the most worrying things about the apparent threat at the moment (threat to 'a city in Europe') is the vague nature of it. That's not to say that any specific target definitively exists yet - the perps will have been put on standby to travel at the drop of a hat, to a city where the necessary weapons and ammo will have been stockpiled for some time already.

There are probably several cities wherein such stockpiles exist, and the task of the intelligence communities is more about figuring out where those places are, as opposed to who might be enlisted as a perpetrator (though they have to work on that too of course).

*************************************

What worries me even more, is that the PTB might find out where the attack is likely to take place, then let it occur, in order to crack down on some of our 'excessive freedoms' in the West - such as freedom of movement and travel across borders, rights to property, fair trial when under suspicion - in the aftermath.

"Something must be done!"

"We'll make it harder for people to move around, own property, or communicate without being intercepted. Suspects will be subject to harsher interrogative procedures, and human rights legislation will be relaxed in these instances. Trial by jury will be foregone and they won't have the right to speak in their own defence if the evidence is clear (CCTV footage and so forth)"

"Sounds good to me. Oh, hang on a minute..."

***************************************

Elbow's song: "Leaders of the Free World" springs to mind. It's all well and good having a hard-nosed government until they come "...knocking on the door to your home".

PS - And what of CCTV? Having seen the latest photoshop software, it's dawned on me that we can't trust our eyes any more when looking at a still image or a video supposedly showing 'clear evidence'.

Interesting article. Thank you.

Hopefully somebody is listening. You only have to look at the mayhem one gunman caused in Cumbria to see how much damage a few well armed groups in the UKs smaller cities could do.

Unfortunately I doubt it. This SDR is going to be an exercise in cutting as much as possible with as little public attention as possible. Options for change 2.0. At least this time they haven't got the brass neck to call it a peace dividend.

They'll get away with it too because joe public doesn't care about defence until some banana republic comes nibbling at us.

reply to post by Yissachar1


Good plan and it would work too, but thankfully these Islamist terrorists are so fecking useless they would have a hard time setting an explosion in a bomb factory. I mean, c'mon, they plan these attacks for years, long enough to get picked up by the Intelligence community, monitored, then arrested with reams of evidence which see's them in jail.

It's almost as if they sign up to a plot for the kudos and bravado, but none of them actually have the balls to carry it out and just blow hot-air while "planning"... How much practice does it take to blow yourself up?

An attack like Mumbai could be planned the day before and no-one would be the wiser until it happened. I have said before that give me £1000 cash plus 3 hours and I can bring London to a standstill for days, with the added bonus of not being killed myself and also highly difficult to track (if not impossible).

These Muslim guys take 2 or 3 years, use credit cards to buy their supplies, plan and plan and plan, all over unsecured internet and mobile comms with the net result of achieving bugger all. Mumbai only worked as well as it did because the Indian Police are as useful as a chocolate fireguard in the Summer.

I have no fear of these muslim wannabes. I lived in N.I and Germany during the height of the IRA campaigns, those guys did it properly. These Islamic chaps haven't a clue what they are doing, take too long in planning anything and usually fudge it all up before they even have a chance to fire a shot.

reply to post by stumason


I would have to agree with you to a point. OPSEC does not seem to be their forte.

The scenario i set up above would not only kill many but have the potential to bring the government down too. Very easy to set up. All you need is the ammo, weapons and expolsives they allready have.

What they do not have is operational sercurity and the dedicated, discaplined personel with the balls to carry it off. .. Brovado is a major player here with personel getting complacent with their personal security and underestimating the survailence capabilities and reach of our inteligence services.

That doesnt mean that there are not people here who have been radicalised enough to carry out such an operation.. A few of them used to live up the road from me and resided in Guantomeno Bay for a while!

As for the Irish, I have done many operations against the provos even stopping devices from making their targets. To be honest, they weren't that good at opsec either.. Again because of greed, brovado, lack of operational discapline..

I agree that for the moment we can have a comfortable nights sleep. And question the timing of such threats too considering certain bugdets are about to be cut!

reply to post by stumason


You are correct they do seem to be a bunch of ineffective goons.
But to dismiss them as a potential threat would be a mistake IMO.
We can not rule out the 100th goon,who will go beyond the usual MO.

I am a war hating person,but I do think we have to be able to defend our people and land in a manner so fierce that no one will attempt to attack our country or its people.

Those who declare themselves to be My enemy,I will never underestimate.
I shall always be on guard.

Sorry for sounding like Sun Tzu,but its true.
(Poetry unintended but good)

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse
reply to post by stumason

 

You are correct they do seem to be a bunch of ineffective goons.
But to dismiss them as a potential threat would be a mistake IMO.
We can not rule out the 100th goon,who will go beyond the usual MO.

Indeed - you're right and sorry to disagree with you Stumason but as much as i hate to be sucked into an Orwellian diatribe, but remaining vigilant does pay off.

I used to believe that Al-queda was mainly an illusion, but that illusion has attracted real wannabe's - waiting ...

You're right about not being too scared or affected though, since yes - The UK has had terrorism many times before, so in a sense we're less paranoid or affected by it, compared to say.. the US, but all it takes is one mad bastard and things can go worse before they get better.

reply to post by mr-lizard


I wasn't really disputing what Stu said,just saying we should always be careful just in case.
You can't be too careful in my experience.

And yes It may sound Orwellian,but that ain't my fault in these times.

reply to post by Silcone Synapse


Sorry man, didn't mean to imply that you were.

Peace

They've been talking about this since it happened back in 2008.

Fear of Mumbai-style attack prompts UK security review

The SAS were obviously part of the discussions on this subject back then, and always will be in matters of security like these. Not sure why they are bringing this up again?

CX.

Originally posted by CX
They've been talking about this since it happened back in 2008.

Fear of Mumbai-style attack prompts UK security review

The SAS were obviously part of the discussions on this subject back then, and always will be in matters of security like these. Not sure why they are bringing this up again?

CX.

I think the answer to why they are bringing it up now, at this specific time, is all about the spending review and future buget cuts... Its always strikes me as odd, if not amusingly that whenever cuts to defense or inteligence services are in the pipeline that a new "threat" rears its head. For example this discussion on a mumbai style attack and the new "threat" from Irish splinter groups..

Methinks this is about pounds, shillings and pence!

reply to post by Yissachar1


Your probably correct. Here in Canada public discussions of scenarios like this are few and far between, at least at the Governmental level. They seem to happen only at budget time or when key elections are imminent.

Being a major participant in Afghanistan right from the start, our JTF2 was on the ground with the Americans SOF and your SAS/SBS right from day 1, it is dangerous and irresponsible in my opinion to ignore or underestimate the threat this scenario presents to Canada or any other western country. Many great nations/warriors have fell due to underestimating their opponents. We in the west can't afford to be complacent in these matters.

Don't get me wrong guys, being vigilant never hurts, but there is no need for panic (not implying you're panicking either..)..

Yes, all it takes is one bunch of morons to slip through the net and all hell could break loose, but in the same vein, there shouldn't be any change in our values or way of life because of them.

The biggest F you we could send these guys and their violent ways is what happened after 7/7, the Blitz and every IRA bomb that went off.. We got on with life as if nothing much had happened.

Stiff upper lip and all that, what what?

reply to post by stumason


I'll drink to that man.


Just basically had this discussion with a few of my mates, most of them shrugged their shoulders and took a swig of their beverage of choice. Life goes on.