Should We Clone Neanderthals?

reply to post by Seeker PI

I've been following this thread all day and whilst I find its premise quite ridiculous, it has kept me amused for hours.

Agreed, these scientists should be doing research on curing current diseases, they are not living in the here and now in my opinion, just looking at the Neanderthals tells me they are human, that is all I want to know plus let them rest in peace.

reply to post by Aquarius1

The research on cures might benefit from cloning Neanderthals.
Who knows? Their heavier bone structure might have all kinds of benefits for human skeletal diseases.

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by Aquarius1

 

The research on cures might benefit from cloning Neanderthals.
Who knows? Their heavier bone structure might have all kinds of benefits for human skeletal diseases.

I am trying to have an open mind and see some benefit from this, not so at the present, the time may come when I will change my mind but not today.

Thanks for posting.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Yeah! What a fantastic idea SaturnFX!
We can observe them from helicopters and planes to see if they deify us! They'll end up worshipping us as Gods from the sky, we could all have cool names like Zeus and Enki and we could start this whole ball game all over again. It would be like a massive game of Spore or Populous, my tribe vs yours, it would make the ultimate reality TV show. Place bets on who will win etc, the possibilities are endless! I wouldn't send anyone of us to the island though, you know, for fear of crucifixion, it wouldn't be the first time.

Anyway, that's assuming the neanderthals will have sentience of course, if they do then we shouldn't do any of the above because as we all know;

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime 2007

Peace

WCS

If we create a Neanderthal colony I would propose the following, considering that having a large-headed Neanderthal child might kill a sapiens female:
It will be illegal for a Neanderthal male to have sex with a human female; it will be legal for a human male to have sex with a Neanderthal female.
Erm, that was probably the case 30, 000 years ago.

i say clone one, cage fight one and draw your conclusions from there.

Originally posted by Seeker PI
I've been following this thread all day and whilst I find its premise quite ridiculous, it has kept me amused for hours.

I doubt we were to much different to Neanderthal, I suspect we where just monkeys who could throw the stick/stone further and runaway faster.

Dont bring them back, they do not deserve to be exposed to us again, we would only find another way to wipe them out.

LONG LIVE NEANDERTHAL DOWN WITH MONKEYS WITH STICKS.

I always suspected the better man lost, in that survival competition.

Perhaps Neanderthals were too busy singing and dancing to fight off cannibalistic raids from their nasty little neighbours.

If governments ever allow such cloning to take place, you can be sure it will be for nefarious purposes.

Perhaps the "gentle giants" that many of us are familiar with have active Neanderthal genes.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
reply to post by Phage

 

Its an animal...just an animal. cloning animals out of extinction = good.

there should be no religious uproar about cloning neandertals...because..well, they aren't man and therefore who cares. So, it simply comes down to us simply doing it.


and in regards to them developing nukes...well, we took em out once, we will take em out again if they get silly.


Actually, wasn't there some research done suggesting neanderthals didn't go extinct but rather just interbred with homo sapians and made french people?

add:Yep, they did. Link - neanderthal gene found in some humans

Man from Earth

edit on 3-10-2010 by SaturnFX because: added a link

Man from earth
14,000 year old caveman from france

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Oh great. Then they develop nuclear weapons and we have a full scale interspecies war which they might win. Then what will you say Mr. "we'll just watch 'em and see what they do"?

Really though, the neanderthals have been a fascination of mine for a long time. Though it could be more an interest in early man in general.

I think the moral issues preclude attempting such a thing though. "Playing god" is too fitting a description.

Well phage you never know they could end up like the Geico Caveman
if they grew up with the technology

geico caveman series

I believe a cloned neanderthal would possess similar intelligence to humans.

By that I mean, if raised from birth as a human, there wouldn't be a significant
difference--maybe -20 IQ points. I think the brain power was there 50k years ago
for the capacity to learn. Just not the resource or leisure.

Originally posted by midicon
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

“see how they develop from cave dwellers into tribal, villages etc..”

How long would that take, do you imagine?
How long would it take us given the same education and environment?

not sure, perhaps 20 years, perhaps 100 thousand years. That would be one of the points behind watching to see...maybe they never go beyond simple toolmaking and basic fire use...we can speculate forever.

Why not give them a Harvard education?
Would that not be more constructive?

I dont see why...for who?
harvard education, jobs, taxes, etc...all of this complexity arguably does not add anything great to our life...its just what we have become used to...and then, whats the point of the testing

We might learn something!

Ya, that would be the point of the process

We might even be ashamed of what we’ve done.
Look at the state of this planet.
Look at the state of we humans.

obligitory self loathing hippy nonsense.
you can be ashamed of what you have done for whatever (hide the bodies already),
not following how a discussion about creating neanderthal island has suddenly turned into a guilt trip about not recycling or whatever your going on about.
.

You know this isn’t some monkey.
That fell from a tree.
It’s a fellow hominid.

ya...which makes it more interesting than creating dolly the sheep island...sort of the selling point.

We interbred with them.

are you suggesting another potential benefit for their cloning? I don't think we should do that again...well, it shouldn't be the norm anyhow..not until they reach their technological age

Can’t get much closer than that.

And what about those big brains,
Doesn’t that count for anything?

same answer...thats what makes it a interesting study

Thankfully it probably will never happen

aka - Thankfully you will never be told that it happened. If it can be done, you can almost bet its been done over and over in places you have no access to.
the question is...should we know about it. demanding ignorance in a subject doesn't make it not exist.

Originally posted by Byrd
Good grief -- NO!

They're humans! "Homo" is the human lineage/human race. From early h. sapiens through homo eregaster, homo neanderthalis and so forth, they're all humans. They could speak, they walk upright, and they reason and create.

Yes, they are like us..our distant cousins.

They're more similar to us than wolves are to huskies.

Yet, as we see in this thread here, most think of them as animals.

They are animals...so are we...smart animals.

Given the way we treat our fellow humans, I think it's a crime to create a set of humans who would be immediately treated as convenient non-humans to be enslaved and subjected to medical tests and working conditions that we'd all reject.

No. A thousand times no. Not until our race "grows up" more.

so you would be in favor if they were created and then given the island senario then...no medical tests, no physical tests..just created and dropped off to observe?

otherwise, your saying no just because its a new and odd idea...and that is illogical.

Originally posted by WorstCaseScenario
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Yeah! What a fantastic idea SaturnFX!
We can observe them from helicopters and planes to see if they deify us! They'll end up worshipping us as Gods from the sky, we could all have cool names like Zeus and Enki and we could start this whole ball game all over again.

Clearly you will not be making the observation team...if you want to feel like a pseduo deity, there are plenty of video games that allow for that.

I would think distant high powered cameras hidden in areas that would be near impossible to get to, parabolic mics, etc...things they will never notice.

There was an episode on star trek that had a monitoring station on this sort of primitive planet...it was disguised as this little rockface...they never talked to the inhabitants, they never flew off in space ships or anything...it was completely seperate from the growing society. That would be a good bet.

I have not read the thread yet but have wondered about this myself, as for me I have to say yes along with many other species now extinct, but to what end? they would most probably end up in a less than admirable environment for the rest of their lives so the short answer would have to be no.

S#F for the thread.

Originally posted by Kailassa
I always suspected the better man lost, in that survival competition.

Perhaps Neanderthals were too busy singing and dancing to fight off cannibalistic raids from their nasty little neighbours.

If governments ever allow such cloning to take place, you can be sure it will be for nefarious purposes.

Perhaps the "gentle giants" that many of us are familiar with have active Neanderthal genes.

You people amuse me.

Yes, everything is better than humans.

Neanderthals were enlightened species, wolves are more spiritually aware, hell, a dung beetle has a better personality than a human.

Listen, in clinical terms, this is known as reflection...meaning you take the attributes you personally have and put it on to other people. If you are a drug addict, suddenly everyone on earth in your eyes is a drug addict. If you are a murderer, everyone is a murderer.

And so you are saying the world as a whole is a angry and unenlightened species that is the pitts in regards to just lifeforms...but that only applies to one person...so you should ask yourself, why do you feel that way about yourself?

Originally posted by SaturnFX
reply to post by Phage

 

Its an animal...just an animal. cloning animals out of extinction = good.

there should be no religious uproar about cloning neandertals...because..well, they aren't man and therefore who cares. So, it simply comes down to us simply doing it.


and in regards to them developing nukes...well, we took em out once, we will take em out again if they get silly.


Actually, wasn't there some research done suggesting neanderthals didn't go extinct but rather just interbred with homo sapians and made french people?

add:Yep, they did. Link - neanderthal gene found in some humans

edit on 3-10-2010 by SaturnFX because: added a link

Actually there are many religious that believe that they were just humans that lived long enough for the brow ridges to grow to prominence. Not saying I agree, but you can't just carte blanche state that there should be no religious dissent...

Plus your article that finds the "Neandertal" Gene in humans just supports this...

again, not saying that I necesarily believe they were humans just saying you shouldnt make carte blanche staements like that...

Jaden

Originally posted by antar
I have to say yes

Cool...welcome aboard

the short answer would have to be no.

Way to be consistant.

but thanks for the laugh

On second thought.....

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Its an animal...just an animal. cloning animals out of extinction = good.

Why is cloning an extinct animal ''good'' ?

Don't be obtuse.

A species is a group of animals that can produce fertile offspring amongst themselves upon mating.

Are you saying that it would be ok to exploit and experiment on a living being purely because it wouldn't produce a fertile baby if we had sex with it ?

Is that how you would seriously, ethically justify your suggestion of dumping some hapless neanderthals on an island ?


How would the neanderthals cope after being ''created'' without any parents or tribe to guide them through their formative years ?

It would be a truly horrific experience for these unfortunate neanderthals.

Have you not got a conscience ?

reply to post by SaturnFX


This isn't reflection.

Neanderthals are humans.

Period.

Not a debatable point.

YOU are part neanderthal.

Shall we experiment on you? Afterall, you're just a smart animal, and assigning human emotions, or intelligence to you is just an example of some people's need to anthropomorphize.

Your ability to decide "humanness" is somewhat disturbing. A trait that has to be taught to soliders, and something that comes naturally to sociopaths.

en.wikipedia.org...


The conclusions of the previous mtDNA analysis were flawed. Over-reaching, over generalized. The science was good, the conclusions blew chunks. Assuming that all mtDNA sequences in modern humans are the only mtDNA groups we ever had - none have disappeared. Assuming from ONE sample group that you can generalize about all neanderthals. That mtDNA precludes nuclear DNA contribution. Or even Y-DNA contribution. And that's just the problems I can assess off the top.