Just get over the tea-party already

Originally posted by Becoming

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by projectvxn


I'll bet you think everyone in the south is racist just because the Klan was born down there.

I'll take that bet! How much?

Born and raised a Texan; I'm familiar with the society in the South.

edit on 3-10-2010 by whaaa because: (no reason given)

Texas is considered South West, which is a completely differant culture then the Dirty South. The only relation the two have to do with each other is that they both have south in the name. Other then that you are about as differant as a New Yorker and a Californian.

I really wish you would qualify what you mean by "the Dirty South"

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by Becoming



. Other then that you are about as different as a New Yorker and a Californian.

Why has this "discussion" transformed into a personal dissection of ME?

I thought there was something in the T&C about personal attacks and baiting? I made absolutely no personal reference to anyone. Why can't I be afforded the same respect? Especially by staff!

I guess I'm one of those "people like you" that needs to be singled out and put in my proper place according to the hierarchy. Not a position that I am unfamiliar with, I might add.

edit on 3-10-2010 by whaaa because: (no reason given)

You can stop the "woe is me" schtic. I wasn't attacking you, just correcting you.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Yes because the massage was being crowded out by Keynesian economics peddlers.

The actions of the Republicans during those years had strong backing by conservatives until conveniently the general elections when they decided to throw him off the boat. This is not about any awakening as you'd insist and come 2012 or 2016 with the next Republican administration, the vast majority of tea partiers will jump the boat and the tea parties will be right back to its very minor Ron Paul support groups from where it started.

People are finally seeing what a crock Liberals and Neo-Cons have been feeding us.

And yet obvious neocons like Palin and O'donnell have strong backing from the tea parties. Mind you though I have no doubt there are tea partiers who do not like Palin at all, but they are the minority, and they are yet to be vocal of her influence in the movement.

I find that to be racist, intolerant bigotry. We have never turned away anyone because they were Hispanic or Black or whatever.

Obviously not for a number of reasons. For starters, racism fuels a large portion of the tea parties but it does not fuel it for everybody. Neither does it look good to the credibility of the movement if blacks or hispanics were refused to join in. There is also this attitude from many people that blacks are only acceptable when they are in the backround. Racism is not so clear cut, it is not black and white, there are shades of grey.

I've never opposed anyone on their heritage or color,

Well I have not seen you make any comments about blacks or asians. However your own colorblind does not reflect the entire movement or everybody in that movement.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


You can say that all you want. But I have yet to see these "Large portions". That's just your MSNBC fueled opinion. It's not fact. I recommend going to a Tea party. But I'm afraid that won't even change your mind, no matter who you talk to.

I'm not background noise. Several Tea Party LEADERS are black and Hispanic. I speak at events. I'll be sure to tape the next one and post it here so that you can see they don't just shove me in the back ground as some sort of token Hispanic. Are all white people just racist to you? Is that it? Or is too many white people in one place automatically mean racism?

Originally posted by Becoming
Texas is considered South West,

Texas is not considered solely southwest. It is also considered Southern, sometimes it's put into its own region. Texas in my opinion is Culturally Southern as it was one of the first Confederate states to attempt to leave the Union, it has always voted consistently with other Southern states, there are virtually no differences between Texas and the rest of the Southern states other than the fact its got more hispanics and a diversity of climate.

While Arizona is conservative, the South West has generally being a mixed bag on issues over the years (New Mexico tends to be alittle more liberal, Colorado tends to be mixed politically, Southern California is often lumped with the South-west. Texas due to its large territory extends well into this region, but it shares more culturally with the South.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

You can say that all you want. But I have yet to see these "Large portions".

Oh you don't see it? When last did we see a serious third party candidate get strong backing from the tea parties? And no I am talking about candidates that failed to make it onto the GOP ballot or candidates that gained 2% of the vote. I am talking about serious third party contenders against Republicans and Democrats. Where are they? And how do you explain the massive support Palin receives from the tea parties? Do you know about Palins views? How do you explain the strong tea party backing of the current Republican candidates?

If these are not large portions, I fail to see how the above is possible, unless its all an illusion.

That's just your MSNBC fueled opinion.

So MSNBC influences tea party opinions? They influence tea party support? I had no idea they had that kind of influence. Forgive me but I was under the assumption that the the tea parties held absolute dislike for that news network.

Several Tea Party LEADERS are black and Hispanic.

That still does not cut out racism fueling many in the movement. There are tea partiers who are not part of the movement based on racism (some solely on partisanship) and could not give a damn about blacks or hispanic being leaders. There are others that will continue to hide their agendas, to use stealthy words, covered up arguments to push their agenda and their true feelings.

Or is too many white people in one place automatically mean racism?

Nope not automatically but it would be a major facor. It could be for partisanship, it could be for cultural reasons, it could be for many things other than what it may claim to be for. The fact that the bulk of conservatives kept shut over 8years and then all of sudden decided to pop up in their 1000's after the election of the first black president, after the election of a Democrat in 8years, after the election of a liberal, I will not certainly take that for face value, sorry.

You know what's interesting? I have never for the life of me seen so many white conservatives (many Southern) gather all at once in DC prior to 2008/2009. Never. Something like 80,000 conservatives marched to DC to protest the Obama adinistration in March, another 70,000 in September of last year, I have never for the life of me seen such a gathering of this kind of group in the years before, ever. Not under Bush, not under Clinton, heck not even under Carter. It's really interesting you know, it really is.

But you play the flute how you wish projectvxn. After all you will happily take what could be your lesser evils and sweep it under the rug if thats means some more recognition to Ron paul or the Federal reserve or what have you. But the tea parties will just be a temporary fad for the many Republican and Southern conservatives in attendence, before they crawl right back to their couches following another election win of an average 'family values' Joe in the office again. The spending will resume, and the tea parties will be nothing but their former minority libertarian self again, until, well you know, the next liberal or black or anything not like Joe. Sad really.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Personally I don't care what Sarah Palin thinks. And it is none of my concern if certain TP groups want to support her or not. I do not support her. But does supporting Sarah Palin make one racist? Does being conservative and showing it racist just because there's a black president? RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE!.

That's all you've got.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Personally I don't care what Sarah Palin thinks.

That still does not change the massive support she has among the tea parties. She along with many other Republicans dictate the path of the movement whether you choose to admit it or not. Many of those folks in that movement are there as a reactionary to the elections, they will not be active to the end. You are but an insignificant piece, you cannot change that.

And it is none of my concern

and yet you are insisting to us that the movement is anything but. But hey if you don't care that is your choice, I just find it to be an incredibly waste of time. The movement is essentially a passage way back to the next Republican administration for many protesters in the tea parties. When that happens the tea parties will become totally irrelevant to their lives.

We are in a great need for a movement in this nation. Evidently Obama has failed in his administration to achieve effective healthcare, to bring about serious reform to wallstreet. I gave him a chance and he failed, he needs to go in 2012. The Republicans and Democrats have proven themselves incapable and there needs to be a movement beyond these parties now. The tea parties are not that movement, they are right back to the source of the problem.

But does supporting Sarah Palin make one racist?

Where did I link the racists directly with Sarah Palin? Mind you I had also been saying that the fuel for many in the tea parties is not merely racism, for others its partisanship, for others its cultural. I do not believe for one minute that the pure agenda that fueled most tea parties was that of fiscal conservativism. That was never the issue for many conservatives, hence their absences and silences for the decades prior.

RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE!.
That's all you've got.

Nope that's not all, but I believe that is a major drive for the movement. You are getting overly offended by my view but that simply is the fact in my eyes. Maybe you are so desperate to believe your efforts are not being used for Republican partisan reasons? All those times at the tea parties, how dare anybody accuse me of being used! Right? How dare anybody label my efforts as being corrupted! Alot of things are probably going through your mind right now, and you will continue being defensive even after the fact becomes more of a reality. Time will show howmuch of a tool this movement has been and it is your choice to continue on in denial.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


I'm being used? Your end of the spectrum is getting in bed with CPUSA, Marxist labor unions, one worlders, racist organizations like La Raza, and I'm the one being used? No one is denying that the GOP and Neo-cons have infiltrated the Tea Party movement. They'd be stupid not to. But guess what? Most of us reject them.

Are you sure it's your view that we're all racist?


Edit to add this from page one:

I find it odd that you deal with many tea party members here on ATS everyday and you still think a primary motivation for our opposition to government is racism. None of the Tea party members I've known here on ATS are racist. I'm a Hispanic immigrant and I have not been treated badly by anyone in the Tea Party. I'm in the Tea Party. I'm certainly not racist. My motivations for being against Obama's policies are the same as my motivations for being against Bush's policies.

I just don't get this. I really don't, and I find it personally offensive.

This is the reason I find what you say offensive. Because YOU KNOW BETTER FROM EXPERIENCE. You talk to us and deal with us everyday. You don't listen, you just project this idea that we're all racist Bush loving idiots being used by the progressive right as if it's true.

Not a fan of the Democrats or the Republicans but if you want to know about the racism in this country, most of you better wake up before laying that claim at the feet of the TP.
Not to derail this thread, it seems some of you have done that already.
If you want the TRUTH about racism and who is stirring this mess up see link below.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Seriously, the truth is staring you right in the face, but most just buy into what is spoon fed to them.

Um, for me, personally, I am getting really confused with all of this "Your side is wrong!" "No, your is!" back and forth. And I know that when I am confused, I am not at the top of my reasoning powers. So, if I, as a bystander, is getting confused by just hearing the conversation, people on each side must, at the very least, be somewhat fuzzled on some subjects.

Maybe that is our problem as a nation? We have this weird need, ever since our inception, to have "sides". Most of our issues do not need to have "sides", with their own vested interests, to give them solutions. If any side, with any stated interest, tries to solve an issues, of course we will have solutions that only cater to that side. Why would SideA consider SideB when they are trying to feed their own people? Or give their people shelter?

As a growing prismatic humanity, we need to leave our sides. We should keep our ideals - Besides the hurtful ones ( racism, fear mongering BY ANY SIDE WHATSOEVER *Yeah, that one really pisses me off* ) they all are one side of any issues. They were ideas, created by humans out of thought, and Time will be the true judge of any truly unusable ideas.

Whether the Tea Party is good for this nation's peoples or not, I say let Time decide. The Sanity/Fear rallies? Good fun, again, Time will judge all. Stand in the middle, weigh each in your hand, and embrace both.

reply to post by projectvxn


The constitution is not some mythical document like people make it out to be. Even the founders acknowledged that it was imperfect and open to interpretation.

No need to worry. Communists aren't ever going to make much leeway in this country. They can't even get enough votes to get on a ballot around here.

So they had a rally? So did Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin. The only rally that matters to me was the 1963 March on Washington.

reply to post by The Sword


Of course the founders realized the constitution wasn't perfect. That's why the constitution contains a process for amendment and a co-equal judicial branch.

but not perfect or wholly complete doesn't make the document worthless. its the entire foundation of our government. and i'm not using hyperbole when i say 'entire.'

the constitution isour government and the threat of unconstitutional actions by government and unconstitutional laws was pondered by the likes of hamilton.

hamilton argued that the people and states would have to stand as a check against unconstitutional laws. that means getting up in arms in one way or another. the founding fathers CALLED for getting up and arms about a government that oversteps its constitution.

not perfect, true. but still supreme. change it through its own procedures and if you overstep it expect the people to rise up and call you out. that's the assumption behind the power of an imperfect constitution, that people will love the imperfect constitution and respect it enough to have a society of laws and not tyrants.

i worry that we've become too tired, fat and pacified in this day and age for hamilton's reasoning to mean anything.