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Truth about China

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posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 08:45 PM
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lads, ladies can we keep out of the "if it wasnt for my ancestors your country would be nothing" style of comments cause that just divertsthe thread.
china has no need to go out any way.
also its not an act of war to supply a country with arms the US done it in afganistan agaisnt the russians, the germans done it in the boer war thye list goes on.
every country not just china is a thief at tech, the russian's stole nato tech and vice versa.




posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 09:07 PM
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wow john smith, if i were a pure friendly people from china i would be absolutly angry after seeing ur reply.
plz allow me to say sth u might feel hard to hear
why u people always say we steal ur technology? the only reason most illegal copies of windows from china is it can be cheaper if u do it here. if we don't do it there should still be lots of people on earth do it.the difference is u will spend more on it. this has nothing to do with steal on military technology or other technology. if u invent car first then u won't allow anyone on earth to use it!?? if u have stealth plane first so u won't allow other countries to have similar tech ?? if they master it then u call them thief??? makes no sence to me.
westerner civilization lead the human tech in recent centuries that is true, then it's very normal for anyone who learn from it and this is how human history goes like. u gave us a hat with "thief" written on it cause u feel u r gradually lost the advantage u have and we learned those from u without paying anything.... in my opinion the arrogant people also including u sir.

out.



posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 11:29 PM
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@John Smith

Wowowowowow,

I came to this forum for some intellegent discussion and yet people like you simply want to call us "thief", "exploiter of children", etc. I don't think that consititute intelligent and meaningful discussion. So I would like to clarify a few points with you here so we can carry on with meaningful discussion.

1) I said I never wanted to sound provocative and antagonistic against the US. In fact I have again and again acknowledged that the US's military budget is larger than the rest of the world's combined, so is your Navy. These are facts and I did not mean to mock the US in any way by stating these facts.

2) China and US are mutually dependent. We need you and you need us. Simple as that. Today's world is no longer isolated as you would like to see it. US corporations are pouring huge amount of capital into China not because they are doing charity work, but for the sake of making a profit, a profit which keeps the folks back home employed. You see, corporation which are the drivers of the world today have a far better understanding than you folks do.

3) China does not exploit 15 year child as a state policy. In fact, I can show you many such deplorable things that you folks engage in in the US as well. However, I am not trying to mock the US again. I am simply trying to tell you that no one is perfect and if all you are good at is yelling empty politcal and propaganda slogans, kudos to you because once again you have shown the rest of the world why Bush was able to dope the country into a ficticious war.

4) Are you aware of what you folks did to Africans and native americans? Again, I am not trying to bring up these things to mock the US; I am simply telling you no one is perfect and all large nations abuse their own citizens and others one way or another. So you might want to think twice next time you call someone thief because you yourself might just be the biggest thief in human history.

5) You don't simply bomb another country's sovereign territory (embassy) just because it sold stuff to your enemies. Selling arms to enemies happen all the time which the US does all the time. This is simply yet another case of the arrogance and misappropriation of your power. Do you know, angry Beijingers almost burnt down your embassy in Beijing after the bombing? would you like to have the relationship between our two countries to escalate beyond that?

Cheers

[edit on 17-7-2004 by Hawkssss]



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by taobo33
why u people always say we steal ur technology?
the only reason most illegal copies of windows from china is it can be cheaper if u do it here. if we don't do it there should still be lots of people on earth do it.the difference is u will spend more on it. this has nothing to do with steal on military technology or other technology. if u invent car first then u won't allow anyone on earth to use it!?? if u have stealth plane first so u won't allow other countries to have similar tech ?? if they master it then u call them thief??? makes no sence to me.
westerner civilization lead the human tech in recent centuries that is true, then it's very normal for anyone who learn from it and this is how human history goes like. u gave us a hat with "thief" written on it cause u feel u r gradually lost the advantage u have and we learned those from u without paying anything.... in my opinion the arrogant people also including u sir.

out.


Ok, I'll answer you first sir. You admit that the chinese steals american technology "the only reason most illegal copies of windows from china is it can be cheaper if u do it here"

Than you say "u gave us a hat with "thief" written on it cause u feel u r gradually lost the advantage"

The Chinese steals american technology, you admit that and it becomes an undisputed truth in the argument. Than you say the Chinese are called thief's because we feel that we have lost the advantage? That did not make sence, we call the Chinese "thifs" and (my personal term) "the knock off kings" because you take what is not yours to take. It has nothing to do with advantage it simply is a truth.

Than to make it more confusing, after you admitted the truth about technology stealing you say "if u invent car first then u won't allow anyone on earth to use it!?? if u have stealth plane first so u won't allow other countries to have similar tech ?? if they master it then u call them thief??? "
To answer that I would say yes. If I spent 50 years planning and designing a better widget (any item) and put my heart life and soul into it than the decision of how it is to be used, who uses it and even if it is to be shared with anyone is my damm decision. For you to try to justify this type of dishonorable plagiarism is frankly in my opinion distasteful at best. That's ok though because when a stray cat keeps stealing milk all you have to do is sour it, like what we did with the USSR.

Next time you want to try to argue against being a thief, you shouldn't admit your a thief in the second line of your argument.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
@John Smith

Wowowowowow,

I came to this forum for some intellegent discussion and yet people like you simply want to call us "thief", "exploiter of children", etc. I don't think that consititute intelligent and meaningful discussion. So I would like to clarify a few points with you here so we can carry on with meaningful discussion.


Let's start here, I do not want to "simply" call anyone anything. The issue in China stealing US technology is not only a well known well documented fact it is also a real issue that can be brought up in a intellectual meaningful conversation. You have not presented anything that says otherwise.




1) I said I never wanted to sound provocative and antagonistic against the US. In fact I have again and again acknowledged that the US's military budget is larger than the rest of the world's combined, so is your Navy. These are facts and I did not mean to mock the US in any way by stating these facts.


Well you did sound provocative by implying the China is smarter than the US because you keep your ships near your coast line. It is snide innuendo, and to me it is considered provocative. You are on a slippery slope here, simply because you say you do not wish to sound antagonistic does not mean you can state personal opinions that are antagonistic and expect them not to be taken that way.



2) China and US are mutually dependent. We need you and you need us. Simple as that. Today's world is no longer isolated as you would like to see it. US corporations are pouring huge amount of capital into China not because they are doing charity work, but for the sake of making a profit, a profit which keeps the folks back home employed. You see, corporation which are the drivers of the world today have a far better understanding than you folks do.


I don't know where to begin on this one, it contains one fact supported by antagonistic rhetoric. like " Today's world is no longer isolated as you would like to see it." Are you psychic? Some how you see that we want the world to be isolated yet we are the biggest supporter of globalization? You claim to know what I would like to see? You claim "corporations" have a better understanding than I do? They are made up of people and I as a person have quite a bit of understanding. Please don't belittle me by pretending you know what my understanding of anything is. As far as US companies moving to China to take advantage of your low standard of living and child labor. I don't know what part of that you think is "good" for us "folks back home." It's not a "good" thing at all in my view and in the peoples views who have lost their jobs.



3) China does not exploit 15 year child as a state policy. In fact, I can show you many such deplorable things that you folks engage in in the US as well. However, I am not trying to mock the US again. I am simply trying to tell you that no one is perfect and if all you are good at is yelling empty political and propaganda slogans, kudos to you because once again you have shown the rest of the world why Bush was able to dope the country into a ficticious war.


But China does look the other way as a unspoken state policy. if they didn't than it wouldn't be happening at such a ramped rate. You can name all the "deplorable" things the US has done and it will still have nothing to do with this conversation. The whole "you did it too" routine is one that is meant for misdirection, it is far easier to point the finger than it is to look at yourself. President Bush Lied to the planet, he is disliked by most the world with good reason, my personal view is he and the administration should be tried in the world court for the crimes they have committed including breaking the Geneva Convention. Just like your leaders should be heal accountable for things like Tianimen Square. The problem is, who is going to arrest them LOL!!



4) Are you aware of what you folks did to Africans and native americans? Again, I am not trying to bring up these things to mock the US; I am simply telling you no one is perfect and all large nations abuse their own citizens and others one way or another. So you might want to think twice next time you call someone thief because you yourself might just be the biggest thief in human history.


Yes I am aware of what happened to the African Americans and the Native Americans. It is also part of our history. I would love to go into it on a different thread because it has nothing to do with this conversation. Again you are using misdirection to avoid talking about the issues. It is in bad form all the way here.



5) You don't simply bomb another country's sovereign territory (embassy) just because it sold stuff to your enemies. Selling arms to enemies happen all the time which the US does all the time. This is simply yet another case of the arrogance and misappropriation of your power. Do you know, angry Beijingers almost burnt down your embassy in Beijing after the bombing? would you like to have the relationship between our two countries to escalate beyond that?


Yes, yes you do start bombing another countries sovereign territory when they knowingly participate in the murder of your citizens, in fact I wish we did it more often. If the relationship between our 2 countries did escalate to the point of no return than the world as we know it would be dead. Billions of innocent people would be killed who have done nothing wrong. So maybe before China decides to sell weapons and equipment that they know will be used to murder US citizens they should stop and think about the consequences of their actions.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 06:28 AM
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china has stole "some" tech off america it doesnt mean it always does. america hs stole tech from almost every western and eastern country on the globe through official and unofficail channels.so please do not call the chinese thieefs because they are not. they are simply looking for a way to protect thier country at all cost.

you want an unbiased view? EVERY ONE IS SMARTER THAN EVERY ONE AT ONE POINT! so please no more of this . how can saying your smarter be classified as "provocative" ?

america is starting to become isloated ,again, not many people want to be in places like iraq since 9/11,(just so you dont get the wrong idea i actualy supported the idea to attack afganistan). for the folks back home i think he means that many of your items from abroad in china will be cheap, so giving you a better profit.

well if they had a revolution it would help a bit. china has problems too no one can deny that.hell what country doesnt?


he may be pointing out that his country isnt as bad as some countries in the world , mines as well before you include it in the arguement. So what if he uses misdirection the basis of all warfare is on deception.

NO you dont start bombing countries embassy's because they supplied a country with arms. hell americans supplied rebels in afganistan and gave them training to fight the russians ,did the russians bomb the US embassy ? no because they knew it was all part of combat and the sooner you relise your country isnt the only one that can do this the better. hwo do they know they will be used against americans? they sold them on the pretense of them being used as defensive weapons, how where they to know they would be used in offense operations. they were not murdred they fell in combat.



[edit on 18-7-2004 by devilwasp]



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 09:27 AM
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Uhh...devil china has basically copied and stole a lot more from the US than you say cuz that traitor Clinton gave them some
but to say that the US has stole ideas and concepts from almost every country in the world is an overstatement to say the least we are the leaders in military tech and every other country wants to copy it comes with the territory but the US makes and experiments with new things china doesn't they just copy.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Uhh...devil china has basically copied and stole a lot more from the US than you say cuz that traitor Clinton gave them some
but to say that the US has stole ideas and concepts from almost every country in the world is an overstatement to say the least we are the leaders in military tech and every other country wants to copy it comes with the territory but the US makes and experiments with new things china doesn't they just copy.

i wouldnt say that stealing tech comment is an overstatement, germany,russia and britain. i will gladly give you any evidence you wish.
who cares if they stole your tech big deal you would do the same and dont say you wouldnt because thats what happens in goverments if you cant build it aquire it.
hwo can you be sure west point? all your spouting off is anti china propaganda, china can and does invent things you just dont know about them. also dont think the usa gov or the GB wouldnt steal tech because they would.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 10:38 AM
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@Admin

Westpoint has lowered himself to callign others Devil this and devil that. I think the admins might want to jump in and check this guy a bit. This is definitely beyond constructive and friendly debate.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
@Admin

Westpoint has lowered himself to callign others Devil this and devil that. I think the admins might want to jump in and check this guy a bit. This is definitely beyond constructive and friendly debate.


no please let this continue i want to see how this turns out.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 10:50 AM
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look we nick technology off each other, who cares which country nicks what tech from what country, it has always happened and will continue to happen

westpoint you really need to sort yourself out, back up your arguements or people will continue to laugh at your pityful attempts at thread arguement

and also westpoint i guess your a republican and the reason why you really don't like clinton is that he helped to raise america's image in the world

(BUSH SURE HASN'T)



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 11:11 AM
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Of course the US has taken ideas of other countries but not as much as devil says also im am a republican and the reason I don't like Clinton is because he gave top secret info to china and he had 3-5 chances to kill bin laden but he didn't if you call that raising Americas image in the world I sure as hell don't the 9/11 commission just released a report that says Clinton got a briefing in December of 1998 the report said Clinton was informed that bin laden had plans to hijack American plans what does Clinton do nothing that is why I don't like him his lack of leadership and lack of taking action when needed and hawks if you don't like what I have to say ignore me or don't post its that simple.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 11:56 AM
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There you go again, WestPoint, constant rambling. Ramblers don't make it very far at the U.S. Military Academy...


CHINA HAS STOLEN U.S. TECHNOLOGY. SO DEAL WITH IT!

After all, America is much stronger, right? Who cares if they steal our technology, let's just create more!

And it's survival of the fittest, if you haven't realized. You do what it takes to win.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

china has stole "some" tech off america it doesnt mean it always does. america hs stole tech from almost every western and eastern country on the globe through official and unofficail channels.so please do not call the chinese thieefs because they are not. they are simply looking for a way to protect thier country at all cost.


Well let's take a look at "some" tech they have stolen or tried to steal.


" One day after the firing of a Chinese-American computer scientist suspected of stealing U.S. nuclear secrets and leaking the sensitive material to Beijing, the Chinese government on Tuesday reiterated denials that it stole U.S. nuclear know-how."


that looks like stealing american hard work without the cost to me. Read more here


"NEWARK, N.J. - Two Chinese nationals working in high-level technical positions at Lucent Technologies Inc. in Murray Hill were charged today with conspiring to steal source code and software associated with an industry-leading Internet server developed exclusively by Lucent, and to transfer it to a Chinese state-owned company, U.S. Attorney Robert J. Cleary announced. "


It's not Nuclear Tech but it is again the hard work of americans being stolen by the Chinese, read more here


"China seems to have taken the term free trade to an extreme," said DeFazio. "Not only are successful small U.S. businesses like Videx being ripped off by Chinese companies, but corporate giants like General Motors have seen their products counterfeited, with no reprimand from the Chinese government or world governing bodies. "


So it's not just the chinese government, stealing seems to be a philosophy of the chinese people too? Read more here



"Mainland China obtained at least basic design information on several US nuclear weapons including the W88 miniaturized nuclear warhead and neutron bomb, and its weapons technical advances were due partly to espionage, according to a Central Intelligence Agency report submitted to the US Congress Wednesday'


So maybe some how the Chinese think they are entitled to this stuff? Read more here


"China Makes Spying A Company Policy"


I think that headline sums it up, read more here


"Many foreign companies are worrying that any co-production ventures could result in possible theft of their intellectual property, and that an uneven playing field could favour Chinese manufacturers"


At least some companies have realized the truth of the matter, read more here

If this isn't enough to show that China is a HUGE thief of American hard work I have around 77,000 examples I can post. A country who's main industry is stealing is nothing but a leach of the hard work of others. I hope China steals something that blows up in their face so maybe they think twice next time. Kind of like what we did to Russia here That is a perfect example of souring the milk.

Oh an Dev, protect their country from what! like invading China would do the US any good? But on the other hand if China invaded the US that could be a different story.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
@Admin

Westpoint has lowered himself to callign others Devil this and devil that. I think the admins might want to jump in and check this guy a bit. This is definitely beyond constructive and friendly debate.



So that is how you answer me?

He was was talking to the member Devilwasp. If you have nothing left to add to the conversation please don't troll other members or the admins may take an intrest in you.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 12:59 PM
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wowowoow,

we got some sensitive nerves here that just about exploded. lol Yeah, ok, we steal everything from others, great. What about you stole the land from the native americans and stole the hard work of all the african americans. So why are you different in this regard? lol funny as hell.

Westpoint called us the devil chinese and I think and many others agree consititute violation of certain forum etiquette. How would you like others calling you evil americans? (I am not calling the americans evil; I am just saying this is not the type of language to be tolerated here). How am I trolling this forum while you and westpoint use this sort of abusive language while we don't?



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 01:09 PM
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If the yankees think we stole their technology, then they actually can do
a lot of things, like
* now president is Bush, not Clinton, so they should feel less worry that
Bush will betray America.
* enhance security
* enhance anti-intelligence
* prohibit high tech trading with China
* ................

Just try to see if all these can stop China from advancing. If China does
true stopped, then it is true devil, true thief, even I am as a Chinese,
I will also think China is a devil, without stealing, we can do nothing.
But if all these still can not prevent China from advancing, I don't know
what is second claim these yankees will make.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 01:19 PM
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ok now, let's all just cool down and refrain from abusive languages. This thread is started to clarify a few things and it should just serve such purposes. Of course, we can be only so patient as long as you are friendly, patient and understanding. We already have enough misunderstanding and badblood between us and your coming out charging "you are theif" "you steal our hard work" hardly gets us anywhere because for every accusation you make I can make one against you "native americans and african americans", etc. So let's leave this meaningless bashing for now.

cheers.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
ok now, let's all just cool down and refrain from abusive languages. This thread is started to clarify a few things and it should just serve such purposes. Of course, we can be only so patient as long as you are friendly, patient and understanding. We already have enough misunderstanding and badblood between us and your coming out charging "you are theif" "you steal our hard work" hardly gets us anywhere because for every accusation you make I can make one against you "native americans and african americans", etc. So let's leave this meaningless bashing for now.

cheers.


Meaningless bashing? Ok I think at this point you have shown that you are not here to deal with real issues between the US and China. I do not know how you consider pointing out the facts "bashing" but in a little land called reality these things are valid points of concern. Again this misdirection with the issues of American Indians and African Americans is not valid in this topic and has nothing to do with China or the US relationship with China. You can "bring up" as many accusations as you want but it still does not absolve you from dealing with the issue of stealing, you can not (I hate repeating myself) side step responsibility for your actions by bringing up the actions of others. Is that getting through to you this time? Must I repeat it again and again different ways until you understand it and address it in a respectable manor? I am not being unfriendly, I am dealing with you being evasive toward the question at hand and some times that entails siting multiple examples until the point in time comes that you understand that no matter how you reason, justify or twist the issue it is still robbery and it is still wrong. If China is truly "great" than it would not be built on the theft of hard work of others. It would rise to the occasion and face it with honor and integrity, not back door thievery and deception.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 02:21 PM
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so what they stole your tech? like the USA hasnt done it? like GB hasnt done it? like bloody germany hasnt?
look you need to figure out that china doesnt steal all of your ideas it just steals to stay in the game and protect its self.
also you say from who, ill tell you china has much land and many countries around her would like that land. i could ask the same question to you why does america need a multibillion dollar anti ballistic defense system? no one would nuke america IF they werent attaked first. for goodness sake man! did i say america is gona invade china YOU thought that up and said it, china has no need to invade any country.
hawkssss didnt need to answer you ,YOU werent talking to him. but i see how he could be mistaken. also how can you call clintin a traitor ? he was trying to improve relations with china if the two superpowers of the world are freindly then thats a good thing ,no wars.
also any country will steal better tech if it can if not to advance its tech but to see what the other country's tech can do against its tech.





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